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JD Hall’s public confession regarding the Braxton Caner exchange on Twitter.
Yesterday, JD Hall made a public confession before his church family. It was then read again on his podcast here:
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He also gave it to ABP to publish, Pastor repents for interaction with suicidal teen, along with their background article.
Additionally, today I noticed that he has changed his Twitter account from using his name, J.D. Hall, to only having Pulpit and Pen listed. This picture was shown on his profile yesterday:
This is how it looks today. The same Twitter handle is being used, but it seems to reflect that the @PulpitandPen Twitter account might be handled by a group of people, the Pulpit and Pen contributors, I suppose the same group who contribute to the Pulpit and Pen blog. Notice there is no mention of J.D. Hall anywhere, although all the tweets from July 29, 2014 and earlier are from J.D. Hall.
JD Hall’s Public Confession
The Bible tells us how to handle certain matters when there’s conflict or controversy. We’re not given multiple options for how to handle these things, and thankfully the Scripture lines out clearly how to deal with our differences. We’ve been well-instructed in these matters. As you know, the chief and core mission of this church is to glorify God, and the only proper method of accomplishing that goal is to do things in accordance to Scripture without hesitation or reluctance. So, although it is not part of our usual Lord’s Day routine, we need to deal with a matter in accordance with Scripture for the edification of the body. If you’re here as a guest and not a part of our fellowship, then please understand: We’re doing something churches are supposed to do.
This is my confession to you:
After being in this body for a number of years, I began to see corruption, sin, and cover-up in our denomination. I struggled immensely with this, especially in the relationship of our church with the state convention — beginning around 2010. Three years of frustration, disgust, heart-brokenness, and struggle in dealing with these various issues that I believed (and still believe) are a horrible reproach to Christ and his church. All of that struggle came out in a sermon I preached in Helena in 2013 called “Modern Day Downgrade.” Within a few months that sermon had been heard many thousands of times and played on both conventional Christian radio shows and podcasts around the country. It clearly struck a chord. People began to call to see what I thought. They emailed to ask my advice. They began to download my sermons and quote me in their sermons. I was offered help to start and market my own program. People listened to it; many more than I thought would listen. All the while, I was trying to do the work of both a pastor and an evangelist. I say all this because I’ve been fighting a war (a terrible, excruciating war), for about three years. I found myself in a movement calling for reform in the SBC. The next thing I knew people were listening to my concerns. People who shared my concerns listened and encouraged me. Again, there were many more like that than I ever imagined. But that came at a great price.
Locally, many may not realize that “JD Hall” became a household name in certain districts of the SBC or that I was often in the middle of skirmishes in faraway lands that most of you couldn’t care less about. Some of you may not even know I had my own radio program. Feedback from me was sometimes solicited by various media outlets around the country. I’ve tried to keep that to a minimum in my life and ministry, albeit without much success. I also realize that this has been my fight. I told you this a number of weeks ago, prior to our celebration of the Lord’s Supper. I realize this has been my fight. The vast majority of you don’t care about the denomination that we are technically affiliated with; most of you weren’t even Baptists before arriving here, and some of you may not even know what denomination we’re in now because we don’t talk about it, and for the most part, we don’t let it affect what we’re trying to accomplish here. So, feeling like this is my fight, I’ve tried to avoid bringing people who are trying to walk with Jesus and live their lives into something that doesn’t pertain to their existence.
In this part of my ministry over the last three years, I spent time on multiple issues including (1) the selling and marketing of religious goods that are spiritually toxic by our Southern Baptist publishing arm and bookstores — material that is Biblically inept and knowingly contrary to sound doctrine. They do this for reasons I can only perceive to be motivated by an obscene quest for profit. Some of the material promoted in our denominational bookstores is far more offensive than the moneychanging business in the temple. It includes material that if sold at Wal-Mart would be tragic, but the fact that it is being sold in Southern Baptist bookstores is downright traitorous to our calling. I’ve simultaneously been embroiled in (2) a controversy at an SBC college in Louisiana dealing with the persecution of three professors who were dismissed for holding to Biblical beliefs in regards to soteriology, and some administrators who were fired for blowing the whistle on a related controversy. And I’ve had a deep concern about the influence of (3) a college president in Georgia named Ergun Caner, who after 9-11 manufactured a false life story, claiming to have been born in countries he wasn’t born in, raised in countries he wasn’t raised in, speaking languages he does not speak, and a multitude of even more egregious falsehoods, all told countless times to various audiences. Through about ten years of embellishing his life story (not stretching the truth, but manufacturing lies with not the slightest basis in objective reality) he became one of the most prominent men in our denomination and president of the largest Christian university in the world. When his lies were exposed, he was quietly dismissed and our denomination went on the trail of cover-up and dismissal. Of more urgent concern than the man’s lack of repentance, confession, or contrition have been (4) a number of key church leaders who have covered for him and continued to promote him aggressively, thereby making a mockery of the Gospel’s call for repentance, profaning their pulpits, and promoting a religion with a form of godliness while denying its power. Finally, (5) I’ve tackled the refusal of the Christian press to report any of these issues. I’ve sought to expose that and call us all to repentance—not only for the culture of corruption (because there will always be corruption), but more pointedly, for the wider culture of complicit silence regarding that corruption — a shameful silence that is egregiously defended in the name of “Christlikeness.”
I realized that I needed to back away from these conflicts through a number of loving brothers who saw the toll this battle was taking on me, my aging, my family, my sanity, my stress. They saw me reveal and speak truth, but sometimes be hard and speak too harshly. I candidly looked around and didn’t recognize what I had become. Simultaneously, about a month ago, I was approached by these friends who said that I should pray about an exit strategy from that part of my life. Its toll was too costly. I was reminded that God says, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people” (Hebrews 10:30). God will settle his own affairs. He doesn’t need me to fix everything that is wrong in the church today. My friends suggested that the over-zealousness of a reckless critic is ultimately no better than error. I believed them, at first reluctantly, but the Spirit led me to agree with them.
So, I came before you about seven weeks ago and said that I realized I’ve erred in how have gone about trying to bring about change. That was on Father’s Day, if I recall. I told you I would rebuke myself on account of that. Then, I gave a letter to the church council a few weeks later, suggested to me by no one but my own conscience, and said I would stop writing for my website or for other publications. I haven’t written any articles since then. I said that my radio show was going on hiatus for a few weeks, and might be canceled for good. Some were pressuring me to continue the program and make it more devotional — just do an easy, devotional commentary of Spurgeon’s Morning and Evening.
That’s the route that I took. I didn’t completely stop all engagement in these other affairs, but most. I spoke to those hosting my program and told them I was making these changes.
But before I took a break from the program, before I stated my conviction that I realign myself and ministry, I had an exchange with the son of Ergun Caner on Twitter. He had displayed various examples of public conduct that to me, at least, was clearly and plainly immoral, and I called him out on it. In regard to this young man’s public behavior, I had made a statement along the lines of, “The immorality surrounding [Ergun Caner] is astounding.” The son engaged me after that, and I asked him one question, and repeated it a second time, concerning a claim his father had made regarding him. I asked him if it were true. The third and last comment I made directly to him was that because of his age, I would discontinue the conversation but that he could email if he felt so led at a later time to seek or speak truth. He then continued to post rather terse comments on Twitter for some time afterward, but I didn’t respond. He didn’t seem terribly torn up over the incident; in fact, he seemed bolder and more defiant in his sin.
I received a considerable amount of pushback in the wake of that exchange. A few of my close friends told me that what I did wasn’t a sin, because public sin can and should be addressed publicly and there is, no doubt, Biblical precedent for this. (This is, by the way, why we are addressing this publicly here and now in spite of the abject awkwardness of doing it during our regular Sunday morning worship.) Other friends, though, asked me if my heart was right in calling him out. Could I have done the right thing for the wrong reason, making it the wrong thing?
Here’s the conclusion I came to: From to time to time, I see the youth of this church say or convey something that is off track or ungodly. On those occasions I usually contact the mom or dad to say, “Hey. Are you aware of this?” One time I posted the expression “Jesus wept” when a young woman had exhibited profanity on her social media page. But in all those situations, my heart was for the person who needed rebuked. My aim was to reconcile them; to restore them. It was, at its heart, pastoral. Even though this young man’s sin was public, and we didn’t go looking for it (it wasn’t hidden, but laid bare for all the world to see), I confess I called him out for the wrong reason.
I posted an apology on my website within just a few days of that exchange. I acknowledged that it was wrong, sinful because my heart was wrong in why I did it, and I asked for forgiveness. I also sent an apology directly to Ergun Caner through a mutual acquaintance, who assured me he would receive it. I told him I was open to apologizing in person if he cared to call me. I also said I was wrong on something else that was gnawing at me but hadn’t received the kind of push-back this other issue did, which is that I gave credence to a rumor I had heard. I apologized for that also and asked forgiveness. It was after this, but not merely because of this, that I decided to make changes in the focus of my wider ministry—especially the radio broadcast. (This was prompted by the godly concern of my friends.) I asked three men to hold me accountable to make sure my radio program was tempered with a new spirit and that my outrage be tempered. The last several weeks after making these changes have been like a vacation. They’ve been nice. I’ve been throwing my newly found spare time into personal evangelism, open air preaching, and even something I haven’t done in years — recreation. I felt back on track and in the Lord’s will.
But then nearly a month later, last Tuesday, Ergun Caner’s son committed suicide. I don’t believe my four-comment and rather cordial exchange with him had anything to do with it. (I don’t think any reasonable person would if they knew all the facts.) But frankly, we don’t know for certain what factors led to his suicide, and I’m not sure we ever will. (Apparently, the official cause of death has not yet been determined).
But in certain online forums, there was an immediate rush to tie the young man’s suicide to that brief social-media exchange with me more than a month earlier. One prominent commentator from a secular news network was asked by the Caner family to provide commentary within a few days of their son’s death. That writer blamed “cyber bullying” and “thuggery.” Some of the Caner’s associates have accused me of “cyber-stalking”; “harassing”; and “bullying” the young man. People are angry. They want someone to blame.
For the last week and a half, I’ve made no attempt to defend myself. The facts are a matter of public record, and even though the whole tragedy pains me deeply, I have made no attempt to erase the record of my exchange with the young man. I wish to be completely transparent. What I don’t want to do and what I refuse to do is minimize my own wrong.
It’s true, to my shame, that when I commented publicly about the inconsistencies in the young man’s testimony — and especially when I referenced my concerns about his father — I did not do it in the right spirit or out of the right motivation. It was sinful for me to challenge him publicly like that. I was not thinking or acting pastorally in how I addressed him. I certainly would have treated one of my own flock differently, albeit still directly. My heart leans strongly toward gentleness when dealing similar issues here. And yet when dealing with these issues out there, I have been too hard. I understand why some would say, “Why are you different out there than you are here?” I have been at war for three years. It is hard being both pastor and warrior. They don’t go well together. So I’ve kept them separate. That’s the best explanation I can give.
The irony is that about three weeks ago I made known to you, my flock, that I was walking away from these conflicts. It was too late to spare me from the consequences now engulfing me. In one sense, I am reaping what I sowed. When you live by the sword, you die by it .
Let me say this in all sincerity: I am profoundly sorry that Braxton Caner ended his life. Knowing now that this young man struggled with that level of despair, I am even more sorry that my interaction with him was adversarial rather than pastoral. News of his death hit me hard, and I was immediately smitten with shame for the lack of grace in my public interaction with him. All the combined invective that has been aimed my way in recent days does not even begin to equal my own grief and contrition. If these events (and my confession) ultimately end any influence I might ever have, I will accept that as our sovereign God’s perfect will.
I do realize that God never needed me to right every wrong in the denomination. He can settle his own accounts. His arm is long, both to save and to bring vengeance. In my zeal, there has been a disconnect between my theology and my methodology. I do know God is sovereign— and yet, I’ve relied too much on my own strength and not solely on the Spirit in my earnest desire to see justice prevail. That’s sin, even if the cause is right. I confess it.
Let me repeat: I never should have briefly interacted with that young man on the 2nd day of July, because my heart to him was not pastoral. Some have accused me of far worse things. Some seem determined to exploit a tragedy for theological and political gain. That’s wicked.
Nor do I wish to elicit anyone’s sympathy. Our prayers must be with the Caner family. Their grief can’t be overstated. And I sincerely grieve with them in their sorrow (Romans 12:15).
I do realize that I’ve been heading the wrong way in ministry, and I need to repent of that; to turn, to do an about-face, to come back. I once said (and someone made this comment into an Internet meme): “Every time we fail to repent, we fail to demonstrate a proper response to the Gospel.”
This is the best display of the Gospel, that I, in all my weakened, broken flesh can demonstrate for you. Right now, it’s all I’ve got. All I can do in the midst of the unbelievable heartache and sadness I feel for the Caner family and my own family and the giant disgrace this mess has become is demonstrate something that we’ve been praying that so many at the heart of this very controversy would do for over four years: repent. To confess sin, to change our minds in repentance toward our erred trajectory, and ask forgiveness for the ways we fall short of the glory of God.
Let me assure you of this: This terrible, terrible tragedy has accomplished two things (1) I am broken. I am unequivocally, completely broken. I am a crushed man. My spirit is crushed. I am sorrowful. I am hurting. (2) This has forever changed me, in more ways that I can currently comprehend.
With those two realities and everything that accompanies them (the arguments, the warfare, the ridiculous absurdities, sinful failures, fallacious allegations, hysterical reactionaries, capitalizing upon tragedy, and the tragedy itself) the things of the world grow strangely dim, and what seems to burst forth in high-definition clarity is a blood-soaked, rugged cross where all our sin was atoned for. At this point, to me, to this church, to this situation, I think that’s what matters most, and that’s certainly the only source of comfort: a blood-soaked, rugged cross and an empty tomb.
We don’t hide things here. We open up. We put it out there. We cling to the promise of Romans 8:1. We want to be real.
And so as my church, here’s what I need from you as I struggle with this. What I need is for you to preach to me. I’ve preached to you for more than seven years the depths, the heights, the width of God’s free grace to sinners on account of Christ’s blood upon the cross. I’ve preached to you a grace of unmerited favor as Christ Jesus died for our sins. I need you to preach to me, each and every one of you in the coming days, God’s grace that’s given to all who can say through the Spirit’s prompting, “I am a sinner.”
Transcript Source: abpnews.com
Spiritual Sounding Board 
I may be way off here, but confession is about YOUR sins, not everyone else’s. I didn’t even finish reading it. I stopped after he made sure everyone knew about Caner and what he did first.
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I just sent off this tweet:
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Gracie,
Welcome to the blog. J.D. Hall is a man in church leadership with a public ministry. It is perfectly appropriate to test a public confession. And I believe it is wise to do so.
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“Here’s the conclusion I came to: From to time to time, I see the youth of this church say or convey something that is off track or ungodly. On those occasions I usually contact the mom or dad to say, “Hey. Are you aware of this?” One time I posted the expression “Jesus wept” when a young woman had exhibited profanity on her social media page. But in all those situations, my heart was for the person who needed rebuked. My aim was to reconcile them; to restore them. It was, at its heart, pastoral. Even though this young man’s sin was public, and we didn’t go looking for it (it wasn’t hidden, but laid bare for all the world to see), I confess I called him out for the wrong reason.”
Perhaps “Jesus wept” because the child of a Pharisee wasn’t acting as a Pharisee should. I thought the verse, in context, was when the Lord saw the misery of man (people) without hope, without redemption, with false shepherds leading the sheep (to destruction, in the case of Jerusalem. But maybe that’s too much of a generalization).
Teens of our acquaintance have said that if our former church’s elders had approached them in a spirit of concern (“Hey, what’s going on in your life?”) rather than condemnation, they might have felt more cared for and less judged. (And is it an elder’s job to act as judge, jury, and executioner? Is that what church discipline is all about?)
To give him a little credit, he does say further on: “I do realize that God never needed me to right every wrong in the denomination. He can settle his own accounts. His arm is long, both to save and to bring vengeance. In my zeal, there has been a disconnect between my theology and my methodology. I do know God is sovereign— and yet, I’ve relied too much on my own strength and not solely on the Spirit in my earnest desire to see justice prevail. That’s sin, even if the cause is right. I confess it.
“Let me repeat: I never should have briefly interacted with that young man on the 2nd day of July, because my heart to him was not pastoral. ”
Yeah. Says a lot about the mindset. Righting every wrong in the denomination (local church).
I’m rethinking this covenant thing. The children of covenant families, expected to look and act as ambassadors for Christ, without blemish. Why should our children suffer judgment and condemnation for not putting on a perfect show? (And the ones who *do* put on that perfect show, are their hearts in it, are they for real, or is it just for show?)
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Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
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What Truth Detector said!!!!!!!!!
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Socipopath.
Sadist.
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I notice he continues to insist on the sinful nature of Braxton’s tweets. I don’t consider swimsuits and a kiss sinful and I am not convinced that the handle Braxton used was intended to mean what Hall thought it meant. He insists that his error was only in doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. No, it was the wrong thing.
Also, if he is sincere, he needs to dissociate himself from his friend Rhology who posted his belief about Braxton’s lack of salvation and called his girlfriend a nasty name after his death.
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Funny how the crew that believes in total depravity is the same bunch that acts totally depraved…
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You guys, I’m having to refrain my fingers to allow you the floor because I’ve been stewing on this for a few hours. The most troublesome thing to me was this:
HELLO!!!! This young man just committed suicide and he’s still calling out his sin? This was the most insensitive and repulsive thing. Can you imagine if Braxton’s parents, family, or friends read this? If he’s apologizing and repenting for his sin against Braxton and his family, it is never appropriate to shift focus onto Braxton for his sin. This was so, so out of line. Unreal.
Ok, I’ll try to refrain for a bit. 🙂
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I feel the same way about Hall’s apology as I did about Doug Phillips’ — let’s see if he lives up to it.
Like others here have already pointed out, it does come across as a backhanded apology. “I was wrong, but so was Braxton and all these mean people calling me out on my ‘cordial’ exchange.”
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Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Pretty much. What other reason would a preacher in Montana have to be squawking about things that are the business of the LA and GA state Baptist conventions?
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Blah, blah, blah. A lot of words but no real apology for getting into it with a kid. What’s so hard about saying “I screwed up. I crossed a line by attacking a young man when it was not my business. I’m sorry.”
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^ What Marsha said, especially.
I think this is what I was trying to get at earlier. What he calls sin, isn’t. Okay, so JD Hall doesn’t have to pose shirtless or post a pic of himself kissing a girlfriend, if it bothers him. He can castigate himself if such stuff bothers him and he breaks down and does it anyway. (What was that thing Paul said about doing what he didn’t want to do?) But to impose his own standard on other people…
And you’re right, I missed that in the reading. He’s still calling out the poor kid’s “sin”. Sort of “I’m right, I’m always right, I can’t help being right because I’m applying the Bible as (only I and the people who agree with me 100% can do accurately) the standard, and you can’t argue with the Bible’s standards. Even if I was wrong in the way I went about being right, actually I was still right.
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In listening to the audio, at the end, JD got choked up. He was convincing. However, it seems like the consensus here is there are problems with this confession.
What does true repentance look like? Do you have any scripture on repentance that might be helpful?
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@cookingwithdogs
“Blah, blah, blah. A lot of words but no real apology for getting into it with a kid. What’s so hard about saying “I screwed up. I crossed a line by attacking a young man when it was not my business. I’m sorry.””
Exactly. Has anyone else read the latest post from Eagle at The Wartburg Watch? The extent he went to ask forgiveness from others is amazing. Hall could learn a thing or two from that.
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“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 18:10-14
Comes to mind. I think we know who is who in this scenario.
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JA,
You are absolutely right! JD Hall only continued to attack and accuse a boy even after he took his life. There are no words for such hate coming from a man who thinks he is a pastor
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Oh, but Julie, Hall is a warrior! He must do war for his God — his distorted view of God. That’s why he must still call out the poor deceased young man’s sins! (Oh, God, it makes my stomach twist in knots.)
And all that banter about what is wrong in the SBC — I hate to be *that* guy, because I am usually *that* guy who brings this up, but what could be so utterly wrong in the SBC? Could it be … even possibly … the overwhelming majority of non-Calvinistic theology?
Been There Done That is exactly right: words, well-crafted words, by the way, from someone so very broken. A truly broken man does not articulate himself so very well. Oy!
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“In listening to the audio, at the end, JD got choked up. He was convincing.”
Julie Anne – Not necessarily trying to fire a shot across your bow, because I sincerely believe we’re on the same team, but anyone who knows about personality disorders would know that the “choke up” at the end probably makes the diagnosis more likely.
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I tried to post what I thought was a respectful comment on the abpnews blog pointing out some of these same ideas- they did not let it be published.
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What was a pastor doing trolling social media site pages of kids for in the first place?He said he has called parents for inappropriate content before. Reminds me of The peeper, out trying to police the world and set himself up as judge.
Hey JD you are not the parental overseer of the world. Go watch over your own family, resign your church so a man of maturity can lead it, and go make a honest, quite living that adds to the human experience instead of driving a kid to suicide.
Unimpressed with your version of “repentance” as I find it at odds with what you have advocated and pressured others for. You sir are a total complete hypocrite and unqualified to be an elder, so resign.
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Anyone reading this confession who hadn’t read the actual Twitter conversation would assume the exchange between Braxton and JD Hall was pretty mild. Hall completely glosses over the adversarial nature of his tweets and makes it sound like he was just trying to gently correct a wayward teen. I noticed he conveniently didn’t mention that the “truth” he wanted to tell Braxton was about his father. Hall managed to say as little as possible about his own wrongdoing but boy did he make sure to detail what he believes to be Ergun Caner’s sins. The Caners just lost their beloved son to suicide and Hall can’t see past his obsessive hatred of Ergun Caner long enough to allow the family to grieve in peace. The theme of this “confession” seems to be “I’m sorry people thought this was a big deal and I was right but I will make this about me and how broken and contrite I am and won’t everybody please feel sorry for me being attacked this way and pray for me……..and oh yeah almost forgot you can pray for the Caner family too.”
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Guest, Do you have a copy of the comment? Please feel free to post it here.
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Repentance will be proved by future actions and attitudes. JD would be wise to advocate for change in “methodology” amongst all pulpiteers, friends, and colleagues, or he will not be believed or trusted by a wider Christian community in future.
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“What does true repentance look like?”
We won’t know for a long while. Repentance is not words or a “response” when folks call you out and public opinion tide turns against you. It is a “from…..to” metamorphosis.
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Great words, Lydia!
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“Narcissistic Personality Disorder”
I have to agree. I have studied this for a long while mainly because of my experience with narcissistic mega church pastors. If you do not study NPD you can be really taken in with it. The problem is NPD is becoming the norm. These guys can talk a dog off a meat truck. They are bold and people believe bold. If you notice he has no shame taking this “repentance” opportunity to use a dead boy and his grieving father before saying how sorry he is and how “grieved” He is. He is broken while he regurgitates their crimes.
Yeah, I am quite familiar with this sort of thing. And then we will all become the horrible sinners for daring to not believe his “sincerity”. Been there, done that. Many times.
This “repentance” is much like Driscolls always were for years. Buying more time.
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@Melody
Agree. Great comment. Regardless of what’s said, repentance is demonstrated through clear action.
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I thought this was a good article on the narcissistic apology.
http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/05/narcissistic-apologies/
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Frankly, reading the text of this carefully-crafted “apology”, I cannot imagine any rational Christian person not storming out of the church and never coming back. I cannot imagine anyone who has the spiritual discernment of a babe in Christ not seeing through to the sociopath. It scream out loud from this “apology”.
This “apology” is remarkable in its similarity to those of Mark Driscoll.
1). IT IS SELF-AGGRANDIZING, calling attention to the “greatness” of the one apologizing (he informs his flock how the name “JD Hall” is a household name, how he has been fighting the Good Fight, gaining fame across the continent).
2). IT IS JUDGMENTAL, calling attention to the “evil” and “wickedness” of his detractors (even a dead boy’s).
3). IT IS SELF-INTERESTED AND MAUDLIN, calling attention to J.D.’s own poor self in this matter (“…the toll this battle was taking on me, my aging, my family, my sanity, my stress…”).
4). IT IS DECEPTIVE (he doesn’t quite tell the truth and the whole truth about his interaction with Braxton, Note what he leaves out: “The third and last comment I made directly to him was that because of his age, I would discontinue the conversation but that he could email if he felt so led at a later time to seek or speak truth–go back to the actual Twitter exchange to see how JD subtly but importantly twisted the truth by omission.
5). IT IS ALL ABOUT ME ME ME. He cannot get away from himself, he keeps looping back to what all this means for HIM. (See above under #3 “me…my…my…my”; see also: “I am broken. I am unequivocally, completely broken. I am a crushed man. My spirit is crushed. I am sorrowful. I am hurting. (2) This has forever changed me, in more ways that I can currently comprehend.”).
This is not in any meaningful way an apology, it is the Treatise of a Sociopath in the form of an apology.
.
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Note the first part. “This is my confession to you”: Then he goes into the rise of his ministry career and how it was all those people begging him to take his message and clean up the SBC. He became a household name.
See, it was not his fault. All these people were begging him. he did nothing wrong except he had the “wrong spirit”. He was fighting a war they begged him to fight. They were emailing him asking him questions!
(Boy have I heard a variation on this so many times I cannot count. I heard a YRR pastor say just a few weeks ago that the bad job he did at church was not his fault because the members did not make it clear they were unhappy with him. they should have come along side of him and helped him. I am serious folks, this stuff is epidemic in the SBC YRR movement. It is the new normal)
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“HELLO!!!! This young man just committed suicide and he’s still calling out his sin? This was the most insensitive and repulsive thing. Can you imagine if Braxton’s parents, family, or friends read this? ”
Braxton continues to be raked over the coals from places I never imagined. Some of it innuendo. Some trying to point out his part in the exchange as if a 15 year old is on the same level as a grown preacher. Some of it trying to make bank out of it for Hall and act like we should all stop talking about it and just pray for everyone. . The worst part of it is Braxton is not here to explain his thoughts about it at the time, is he? I find it despicable that folks are going there. Why are they still putting him on trial?
We have to talk about it. No more sweeping evil and cruelty under the rug. We cannot use Christianese platitudes to make this one go away. But many are trying.
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Apologies if somebody has already commented on this, but I am astounded that, even now, Hall cannot refrain from describing Braxton’s conduct as “clearly and plainly immoral.” This is, well, words escape me.
Plus, maybe I’m missing something, and I’ve only skimmed the sermon, but I didn’t pick up on any mention of restitution. If it is real repentance, shouldn’t he be concerned to offer appropriate compensation for harm done?
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“If these events (and my confession) ultimately end any influence I might ever have, I will accept that as our sovereign God’s perfect will.”
ME too, because even that statement creates cognitive dissonance.
If you do not have NPD you would simply have said, “I am so so sorry I contributed to a boy’s despair of life, I was wrong.
Instead, you use even this horrible tragedy to still toot your own horn of piety towards God. You figuratively go down with your proud head held high accepting God’s perfect will like a man. Notice, you didn’t even say accepting my punishment for what I did to Braxton but you said that these events and your confession could lead to your lack of influence. Wrong, it would be what you actually DID that could ultimately affect how people see you. . . Period!
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TD “Frankly, reading the text of this carefully-crafted “apology”, I cannot imagine any rational Christian person not storming out of the church and never coming back. I cannot imagine anyone who has the spiritual discernment of a babe in Christ not seeing through to the sociopath. It scream out loud from this “apology”.”
I was very moved by the apology to be honest for this reason, the fact that someone in the church took the time to even say sorry no matter how poorly worded is so out of left field it would knock me over. I have never expected apologies from others no matter what they did. Now I will apologize at the drop of a hat as a christian, I have apologized for the way I breath, not having nice enough clothes, sitting to close to someone, not sitting close enough, for talking, not talking, being sick (I do that alot), being human, being single (another biggie), for being celibate, on and on and on and on and on. So if and when someone would actually apologize I would not run out of the church, I think I would maybe cry, then I would apologize for that as well. Much of this is on me.
I must admit once I read what some of you said I saw things in a different light. I am not able to discern those things that well.
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Brian – I dare say I don’t quite understand what you’re getting at. Why would you, as a Christian, apologize for breathing, sitting too close, or not having nice clothes? That doesn’t sound like a typical Christian thing, it sounds more like the actions of one who’s being put under some form of abuse.
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David exhibited true repentance when confronted with his Sin. Saul was only sorry he got caught. I wonder if Hall can see the difference.
Is it true that to confess is to be absolved?
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Julie Anne asked what true repentance looks like. I would point out Eagles story today over at The Wartburg Watch. Eagle summed it up rather eloquently, though it was a difficult, painful, awkward process. We need more Eagles in the body of Christ.
I had never heard of JD before this came to light, I don’t care to ever hear from him again. Like someone said above time will tell if he is truly contrite, broken and a changed man.
The part of his response that made me cringe was when he had to throw Braxton under the bus about his normal teenage behavior.
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What Gail said!
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brian,
When we first parted ways with our former cult, if somebody had even acknowledged the possibility that they might have made a teensy mistake I probably would have gone back. 🙂 It’s a good thing they were so vile and nasty in their shunning of us. The behavior was so obviously wrong that it was relatively easy to stand our ground.
It’s a learning process.
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brian,
You make very good points about accepting an apology. I guess the question I have is whether Hall is actually apologizing, or is he simply engaged in damage control?
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Javer remains Javer.
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Brian, being abused leaves you feeling like you are always walking on eggs. My first husband had a brain disorder which resulted in multiple daily outbursts of anger over trivia. It was not his fault but it was ugly, scary, and exhausting. It has been seven years but I still find myself apologizing to my second husband if he has a bad day at work or I forgot to do some chore I said I’d do. He would like me to stop and I would too but it is still my immediate response to try to head off anger that isn’t actually forthcoming any more.
I don’t know your background but I can tell that someone has hurt you. That was wrong and I am sorry. You are among friends here.
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Brian, thanks for your comment. I think many of us coming from abusive church backgrounds can get caught up in the the words or emotions and miss things, that’s what I love about hashing things out with people who have not been swayed by tyrannical leaders. I was often amazed at how outsiders could look at my former church’s website and point out things they found troublesome, or words my pastor used that raised red flags for them. I didn’t see it. I learned from them.
I was moved by the last part of Hall’s confession as he spoke and I almost didn’t post this. Then I listened to parts of it again, knowing what I understand about true repentance. Repentance is always showing more concern for the hurt individuals than self. It is a dying to self in hopes that there can be healing and comfort for the hurting. Much of the first half was about his accomplishments, how he had built a rapport with key people within SBC, how he was asked to speak to people, how people flocked to him, how a certain sermon had XX amount of downloads. He didn’t need to mention any of that. How did that show humility?
I also noticed how wordy he was. My pastor was the same way (remember that 18-page manifesto justifying suing me against Biblical commands).
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td let me explain it this way, I have arthritis and my hands, at times hurt so badly that I breath like a long sigh, some took it as me being frustrated at them even when I explained to them why, then it turned into Im looking for attention. So I found to just apologize for it. It was like a way not get into it because it took up so much energy. I admit I might come off bad at times but I mean it was almost every single thing I did or said was off, not of God etc. I found apologizing just stopped it so it became sort of a defense mechanism.
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Brian,
I’ve had three NPDs in my life, my father-n-law, my first boyfriend and one of my brothers. They are/were (father-n-law just passed away) exactly the same as each other in their characters. My father-n-law made the same kinds of apologies as my brother does. I remember one time when my brother-n-law (my husband’s brother) asked me to read one of the apologies from his dad because he really really wanted to accept the apology but was feeling what we both have learned is called cognitive dissonance about it. I wished so bad that I could have encouraged him to accept it but not only was I able to pick it apart just the learned are picking this apology apart, I also knew how sincerely insincere it was because unbeknownst to him his dad had was still denying to me that what his son was saying was true. In fact when I thought his dad was finally coming around to see how badly he had hurt his son, her blurted out to me that he just didn’t understand these blatant lies his son was saying about him. The only reason he was attempting to apologize was because of pressure from the rest of the family.
In short, you could have a generic NPD apology form and just fill in the blanks, an this one fits.
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ugh sorry for those typos, thought I could fit in a comment during busy time
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If an apology leaves you feeling like you’ve just been sort of rebuked, it’s probably an NPD not-an-apology.
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Excellent point, BTDT. I think a true apology with remorse and repentance shows restitution as Gary said earlier. It is attractive and could draw those hurting toward the repentant.
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Brian,
Shame on the people who told you all of the above^. I am so sorry that anyone would say that your sighs of pain from arthritis were a way for you to get attention. I hope you find acceptance in our beloved Lord and never feel like you have to apologize for being in pain again.
My husband has battled with arthritis for years, he was 5’11” when we married 26 years ago. The disease has stolen 10 inches from him over the years, he is 5’1″ today.
I had a woman ask me at a Sunday evening service, what was the reason that my husband didn’t attend with me, before I could respond, she said she suspected he was embarrassed of the way he looked. I didn’t respond with a soft answer to her. What kind of people say these things, I call them mean. God Bless you.
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Guys….speaking of confession and repentance, why don’t you read today’s post at the Wartburg Watch. It is my story of seeking forgiveness from nearly 140 people. Maybe that can help the discussion here.
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Someone already referred to your awesome post, Eagle! What an amazing story!
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i“HELLO!!!! This young man just committed suicide and he’s still calling out his sin? This was the most insensitive and repulsive thing. Can you imagine if Braxton’s parents, family, or friends read this? ”
When all you have is a sin-sniffing hammer…
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@TruthDetector:
I’ve got to side with TD on this. I grew up with an NPD manipulator in my family, and I’ve seen him turn the “choke up”, utterly sincere remorse on and off like a light switch.
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@GaryW:
With these guys’ track record, I would assume damage control until proven otherwise. Only way to be safe.
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@Brian:
Brian, you remind me so much of one of my writing partners (the self-educated son of a steelworker, not the burned-out preacher). He’s constantly apologizing to everyone just for being alive. He phones me for two hours every week, just to have a lifeline of encouragement. I understand he went through hell in high school, then lost both his parents to cancer in quick succession, and never completely recovered from that one-two-three punch. Probable Aspergers, possible PTSD, definite panic attacks. He’s one of the hottest raw writing talents I’ve ever come across — primarily sword-and-sorcery and pulp horror — but he’s so shy and shellshocked and easily discouraged that he does very little with it.
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Question: Do you think when someone comes to grips of their sin, that they come to grips with all of it at once? Or does the revelation come gradually?
The reason I ask is because of the Twitter profile. I never got a response about whether or not JD Hall is no longer tweeting, but making the choice to stop tweeting, would be a step in the right direction towards repentance.
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Do you think Twitter banned him? They should.
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“I had a woman ask me at a Sunday evening service, what was the reason that my husband didn’t attend with me, before I could respond, she said she suspected he was embarrassed of the way he looked. I didn’t respond with a soft answer to her. What kind of people say these things, I call them mean.”
Me too. And what can you say? People like that get offended if you even suggest it was hurtful. Church: High School for adults?
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“Do you think Twitter banned him?”
I just think he is laying low and using one of the monikers they use. They have a ton of them. I don’t know how they keep up. you know, we are finding out that pastoring has much free time while being paid.
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If Twitter banned him, he wouldn’t have the Pulpit and Pen account. All he did was change his profile name, not the main Twitter handle.
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Ah, this is what I suspected:
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HUG We share some similar traits. I am somewhat shy but because of political issues I have been deeply engaged in political activism for about 25 years, mainly concerning housing and rights for people with disabilities. When on the floor or phone I can be quite strong but always polite and I never get personal with the other person. I actually keep notes to check myself. Why ruin someone elses day who is just doing their job. I think some of my behavior is also a bit self centered at times, so I can excuse my own passive aggressive traits. I find I spot that alot in the reformed camp and other groups. So this conversation and the one at Wartburg have been very healing for myself, and also convicting. That is a good thing.
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All: This is a must read, related to the confession/article. Dee at TWW spoke with JD Hall. http://thewartburgwatch.com/2014/08/12/jd-hall-and-me-discussions-and-a-statement-on-brokenness-and-repentance/
Wow, this is interesting in light of that comment I posted 2-1/2 hrs ago above wondering about the Twitter account changing was a beginning of seeing fruit of repentance.
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Interesting but I still say he needs to resign as a pastor. He clearly doesn’t meet the scriptural qualifications for being an elder. A church doesn’t need a pastor that is working on getting it together BUT someone who already has a pastor’s heart. Too much is at stake for guys like Hall to be at the head of any church. There are young people and other vulnerable people that are just as much on the fringe as Braxton was, when JD Hall did what he did in arrogant disregard for people. When the cause, desire to force others to adopt your beliefs or theology , or your pathetic little “war” is overshadowing true ministery, it’s time to step away NOT step back.
Resign Mr. Hall you are unfit for ministery and we don’t need anymore dead teenagers for that to be abundently clear.
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The article on narcissistic apologies described Hall’s “apology” perfectly. For anyone in doubt, follow the link provided up thread. Hall is not apologising.
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I hadn’t read that link. Thanks, Forrest.
I just checked something. I use a word counter which gives word frequency in a selection of text. The word counter counted the following from Hall’s confession:
Hall used the word “i” 127 times
my = 57
me = 33 times
you = 23 times
we = 15 times
our = 15 times
sin = 8 times
gospel = 2 times
Christ = 2 times
sorry = 2 times
apology = 2 times
bullying = 2 times
biblical = 2 times
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An apology spoken by a convicted criminal just before the judge is about to sentence them can be quite moving. Even convincing. And false. Having already been convicted, Hall now stands as one who is in the process of being sentenced in the court of public opinion.
Is Hall”s confession real? Or is it false?
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I cannot help but respond to the question, “what’s wrong with the SBC?”…..this “church” has been corrupt for a long, long time. Dating clear back to the day that the woman who wrote most of the SBC’s Sunday School lessons was discovered to be a lesbian, who molested numerous young women at William Jewel College, was “quietly” released from her position at that college, but SBC NEVER removed any of her materials from their Sunday Schools. She continued to draw a commission from those materials…to this day. I know. This woman was my husband’s aunt.
One has to ask….”can anything good come out of Nazareth?”
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The truth is….it makes me sick. All of it. I find this website one of the hardest places to spend any time…just because the abuse, the deception, the harlotry….the duplicity…just makes me physically ill. Knowing how others have been so abused…knowing I am related to that woman….it is any wonder that I prefer to be alone most of the time…disconnected from those who claim His name. My heart just cannot take the grief of it all……..a truly sad, sad state His “church” is in.
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This whole situation has helped me make a very important decision. I am thankful for that. I will never put my kids within arm’s reach of another church or “pastor” again. I don’t want to have to bury one of my children, and then be censored as to how I accept someone’s “apology” for badgering my child.
Churchianity is just not a safe or healthy environment to raise a child.
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“. . . he became one of the most prominent men in our denomination and president of the largest Christian university in the world.”
Geesh Louise–can’t he and others even get the facts straight. Caner was president of the Seminary, not the University. Huge difference.
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onewhoquestionsitall,
when you say, “One has to ask….”can anything good come out of Nazareth?”” are you saying one must question whether Jesus is good? If not, could you clarify?
When you say, “I find this website one of the hardest places to spend any time” it appears you are talking about Spiritual Sounding Board. Is that correct, or do you mean some other website to which your comments have reference?
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Over at Spiritual Sounding Board, Julie Anne ran J.D.Hall’s public confession through a word-counter. These were the results:
Hall used the word “I” 127 times
my = 57
me = 33 times
you = 23 times
we = 15 times
our = 15 times
sin = 8 times
gospel = 2 times
Christ = 2 times
sorry = 2 times
apology = 2 times
bullying = 2 times
biblical = 2 times
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Having seen the devastation that SBC has wrought on branch of our family, I have to agree. Poor, hurting people in search of relief from their pain. A husband (who will have nothing to do with church, but is kind, gentle, and generous) told me that his wife goes “from one list of rules to the next,” when we were discussing the number of churches she’d been involved in, over the years we’d known them. All were Baptist, some SBC, and some belonging to perhaps some more strict Baptist group (or is KJV-only also SBC?). Their kids went to Hyles Anderson (Is that how it’s written?) Now messed up adults, though the one who has walked away from all things to do with “church” is healthier than the rest.
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That was my question, too, Gary W. I thought about that “out of Nazareth” quote for a moment before deciding to give the benefit of the doubt, and call it a misapplied quote. But perhaps you’re right, and the person is asking if anything good comes from knowing Jesus. It is a sad thought. I am hoping our kids don’t walk away from faith, even as we flee from organized religion. (Don’t look back… Pillars of salt… Gives a whole new meaning to “salt of the earth,” doesn’t it?) They are asking questions I have no answer for, like why does the God of the Old Testament sound like an insecure, bloodthirsty sadist?
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BTDT, so ironic. We immersed ourselves in christian homeschool culture just for that reason: it seemed a safe, encouraging place to raise our children. “Seemed” being the important term in that sentence.
(sorry, typing is a little disjointed today. seriously short on sleep lately)
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A last observation on SBC: Presbyterians I know think themselves superior to SBC families (as well as SGM churches), but their families are just as messed up.
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To be clear: when I originally asked what is wrong with the SBC, I meant from J.D.’s perspective, not in an objective sense. I realize there are problems rife in every denomination, and, most likely, with every church.
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“This whole situation has helped me make a very important decision. I am thankful for that. I will never put my kids within arm’s reach of another church or “pastor” again. I don’t want to have to bury one of my children, and then be censored as to how I accept someone’s “apology” for badgering my child.
Churchianity is just not a safe or healthy environment to raise a child.”
I totally agree with you. It seems rather backwards, doesn’t it, concerning the apology/repentance position?
Especially since my family has experienced the same sort of bullying and attempts to divide from “Christian” leaders. It is especially hard on younger teens who are already trying to find their own identity away from their parents.
So what to do? Avoid these people like the plague. If they are really repentant they will step down from the stage and microphones to oblivion and you will most likely hear from them someday. But there will be real action associated with their “repentance”. Not that it can be demanded. It cannot. I am hoping that people are smart and the money will just dry up.
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I think that “first world” Westernized Christians tend to believe we are more “civilized” than Hutus and Tutsis or Sunni and Shia Muslims. We’re not. We’re just very fortunate that our society hasn’t descended into the kind of anarchy that allows the violence seen in other parts of the world. “But no one can tame the tongue.”
“People are people” (to quote a Depeche Mode song.) “I’m relying on your common decency. So far it hasn’t surfaced but I’m sure it exists. It just takes a while to travel
from your head to your fists.”
I was always drawn to those kind of songs. I desperately wanted there to be something better “out there.” I’m still looking.
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BTDT, Here is what I tell my few friends left who are still in the cult of personality Christianity world: You don’t agree with me and you even think I am in sin.
But you know for a fact, because of our history, you could trust me with your life, family and every single thing you own. But you cannot be 100% sure of the same with the cult of personality figure on stage.
Is that not worth something in the Kingdom?
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“I don’t believe my four-comment and rather cordial exchange with him had anything to do with it. (I don’t think any reasonable person would if they knew all the facts.) But frankly, we don’t know for certain what factors led to his suicide, and I’m not sure we ever will.”
The fact that Hall framed his conversation as a “rather cordial exchange” is interesting to me. Cordial: friendly, warm, genial, affable, amiable, pleasant, fond, affectionate, warmhearted, good-natured, gracious, hospitable, welcoming. Am I missing something that this exchange was cordial?
But I am not missing what the framing of this conversation as cordial means. Nothing to see…it was all friendly…no insults or anything that could possibly be upsetting to a 15 year old.
Hall can repeat this mantra *I didn’t have anything to do with it* all day long if it makes him feel better. But he cannot know that for sure. Perhaps Braxton added this twitter exchange with Hall to the list of things that was overwhelming him at the time and kept it buried in his heart…who knows. And to imply that any “reasonable” person would not see the twitter conversation as a possible contributing factor is a manipulative technique people who are fond of control like to use. IOW-If you think it may have had some kind of contributing factor, even a tiny bit, clearly you are unreasonable.
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“It’s true, to my shame, that when I commented publicly about the inconsistencies in the young man’s testimony — and especially when I referenced my concerns about his father — I did not do it in the right spirit or out of the right motivation. It was sinful for me to challenge him publicly like that. I was not thinking or acting pastorally in how I addressed him. I certainly would have treated one of my own flock differently, albeit still directly. My heart leans strongly toward gentleness when dealing similar issues here. And yet when dealing with these issues out there, I have been too hard. I understand why some would say, “Why are you different out there than you are here?” I have been at war for three years. It is hard being both pastor and warrior. They don’t go well together. So I’ve kept them separate. That’s the best explanation I can give.”
The end (war) justifies the means (lack of gentleness/insults/name calling and this to professing believers)? This is a war he has devised in his own mind.
So the war is to blame for his inability to display the fruit of the Spirit or the scriptures which say we are to teach with gentleness. He is all war “out there” but gentleness with one of his “own flock.” Didn’t God ordain his being both a pastor and a warrior at the same time? Wouldn’t Calvinism have to say yes, yes, a thousand times yes? So did God fail by having Hall be both a warrior and pastor simultaneously since Hall stated they do not go well together?
VERY disturbing to me that he feels he can treat others this way when everything is summed up in one command…love others as you love yourself.
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Hall and his pulpiteers have been referring to the 5-tweet exchange between Braxton and Hall. While it’s true there were only 5 tweets (1 was a duplicate) which had Braxton’s name tagged on the tweet, if you look at Hall’s tweets during that time, he was certainly carrying on much more of the same.
Braxton could easily have searched all of Hall’s tweets to see that he was continuing the discussion with the encouragement of his pulpiteers (just not tagging Braxton). I repeat – this was not a matter of 5 tweets. There were ongoing tweets. Some of those conversations also included Braxton’s name (but not tagged). Braxton was a smart kid, he likely knew what was going on. Those who know Twitter know what was going on. Minimization is one of the most obvious defense mechanisms.
One key part about an apology is displaying openness and humility. If Hall was completely honest, he wouldn’t refer to just 5 tweets, he would own up to the ongoing barrage of tweets he sent out, including the 5 directly to Braxton.
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“If Hall was completely honest, he wouldn’t refer to just 5 tweets, he would own up to the ongoing barrage of tweets he sent out, including the 5 directly to Braxton.”
I also thought it was minimizing the way Hall framed this:
“But before I took a break from the program, before I stated my conviction that I realign myself and ministry, I had an exchange with the son of Ergun Caner on Twitter. He had displayed various examples of public conduct that to me, at least, was clearly and plainly immoral, and I called him out on it. In regard to this young man’s public behavior, I had made a statement along the lines of, “The immorality surrounding [Ergun Caner] is astounding.” The son engaged me after that, and I asked him one question, and repeated it a second time, concerning a claim his father had made regarding him. I asked him if it were true. The third and last comment I made directly to him was that because of his age, I would discontinue the conversation but that he could email if he felt so led at a later time to seek or speak truth. He then continued to post rather terse comments on Twitter for some time afterward, but I didn’t respond. He didn’t seem terribly torn up over the incident; in fact, he seemed bolder and more defiant in his sin.”
Seek or speak truth regarding what? Why did Hall leave thae *what* out of his public apology? The truth Hall wanted to share with this 15 year old boy was “truth” about his own father. I am guessing Braxton could tell this would not be positive truth. Really think a 15 year old is going to say…wow…maybe I better email this total stranger him…after all he has THE TRUTH about my dad. Is this the world these “pastors” live in? Give me a break.
“He didn’t seem terribly torn up over the incident; in fact, he seemed bolder and more defiant in his sin.”
And no one ever hides their grief by reacting the opposite, do they. Especially a child.
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>>>third and last comment I made directly to him was that because of his age, I would discontinue the conversation but that he could email if he felt so led at a later time to seek or speak truth. >>>>
He did not want the part about “your dad” in the media articles. it is that simple. It was a deflection and if we use Hall’s own methodology, it would be called an “an outright lie”. He did not even quote himself accurately? Please. This is just one more reason this is coming off as PR spin to save his ministry position.
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Thankfully he addressed that his motivation was wrong in his confession. I think he realizes that now.
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So the only thing wrong with what he did was his motive? Or possibly also his methods?
If the likes of Mohler et al remain silent, does that make them complicit? Probably whoever is SBC president this year is speaking out for them.
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“Thankfully he addressed that his motivation was wrong in his confession. I think he realizes that now.”
I take it as he meant his motivation was wrong with regard to why he initiated the twitter convo in the first place.
“He did not want the part about “your dad” in the media articles.”
I agree. That was the *what* he left out in his apology. He has not confessed to a wrong motive with regard to not quoting himself accurately by leaving out the dad part –has he?
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I tried to read the whole thing (Hall’s public confession), but my eyes glazed over after the first 23, 567 pages where he went on in detail enumerating the sins of people at his church, Ergun Caner, and Braxton Caner’s non-sins.
The Non-Sins being: posting a photo of himself kissing his GF, and the mild sin, or Making a Mountain Out of Molehills ordeal, of a teen girl he knew from church using a cuss word on her social media.
BTW. To digress for a moment.
Is Hall not aware that there are teenagers in the USA who get strung out on heroin or crack or get drunk; who are into “cutting,” lots of abortions among teens, some join gangs and rob granny ladies?
Hall only seems familiar with, by comparison, “petty” sins (or non sins) of teens, like kissing, or using a vulgarity.
If the worse things teens in Hall’s circle do is cuss and kiss, he is living in a very innocent, sheltered world. Resuming discussion of original topic…..
Prior to seeing this page, I saw elsewhere online that Hall had repented and issued an apology.
I am assuming that this Public Confession thing is intended to be the apology or repentance? If so, parts of it rubs me the wrong way. It reads like a justification of why he waged a war against Ergun and Braxton to begin with.
Hall spends a lot of time discussing the fallout of the situation on him, spends what seems a lion’s share of the post discussing Braxton and Ergun Caner’s shortcomings once more (was this apology just an excuse to rip on them further? Because that’s what it reads like), than he does simply saying, “I am sorry, and I was wrong.”
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“Probably whoever is SBC president this year is speaking out for them.”
Ronnie Floyd who was one of their targets.
I don’t think ya’ll realize what sort of trouble JD is in in the larger view of things. While we parse his narcissistic confession/apology/repentance there are other things going on. The more he talks the worse it gets for him. (Unless you are Wade)
Many of these folks don’t care about Caner but they do care about some other leaders, etc as they are trying very hard to unify because the SBC is in trouble financially. The Calvin/Non Calvin war has split tons of churches. The money is not flowing as freely and there is lots of restructuring going on, etc. And when you couple the Hall thing with the recent Driscoll stuff, it really gets bad. The SBC has been funding Acts 29 churches for a while now and promoted Driscoll like crazy. Then we have the SBTS/Mohler/Dever?Mahaney scandal. The last thing they need are any connections with JD Hall and pulpiteers.
Now you will see a rash of articles from SBC movers and shakers about using social media. you wait and see. They did the same thing when the Mahaney debacle was front and center.
There is no reason not to throw JD under the bus. his only hope is James White and Phil Johnson of McArthur fame. Not a lot to rely on. Except Wade, perhaps can take him on?
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Hall’s letter reminds me of this about actor Robin William’s death:
Why Some Of Us Feel Bad About the Death of Robin Williams
-link is to Breitbart site, it’s an editorial about Williams’ passing.
I felt that the piece was inappropriate, as the guy who wrote it tries to sound sad about RW dying but then spends the whole thing sniping at RW and how RW or RW’s death made him feel.
Some other guy also felt it was inappropriate too, he left this comment: __(Start Quote)__
a comment by TedinChulaVista
Robin Williams just tweeted me (Verizon has great coverage) and he said, “Uh, thanks. I guess.”
This is an honest piece but it’s more of a backhanded compliment that is about the author more so than it is about the person who passed away. It smacks of narcicism and a sort of pettiness I don’t think is appropriate to air at the moment.
Lastly, Robin Williams was a great man and you are not. Your feelings mean nothing to anyone in the public, try to focus on the subject rather than on yourself.
__(End Quote)__ – That reminds me of Hall’s apology or whatever it is about the Caners.
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HUG said,
People who are sociopaths lack empathy. Not only do they flip their emotional reactions on and off like a light switch, but’s play acting because they don’t really know what the emotions feel like that they are pretending to have to win people’s sympathy. (I am speaking in general terms here and not necessarily directing these thoughts towards J D Hall.)
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Someone above was asking about Twitter banning people. From what I’ve seen in the past, when Twitter does remove an account or ban a person, the account’s original art / avatar gets removed, and all you see is a message on the page that says “This account no longer available.”
In other words, J D Hall’s Twitter is not banned. Someone simply switched out the banner and profile photo with new ones. If Twitter had banned him, you would not be seeing the new “Pulpit and Pen” banner, etc, you would be seeing a message that says something like, “This account is now blocked” and that is all.
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Great article at Cindy’s. http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2014/08/what-is-repentance-what-can-we-learn.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Here is a snippet:
As any parent knows and any person in an abusive relationship can tell you, repentance can mean many different things. Abusers will often feign repentance to escape the consequences of their actions, but they use the act as license to pick right back up where the left off, continuing to offend others as though their lip service allows them to do whatever they want with impunity. When the offended voice another complaint about their behavior, BOOM! The person who claimed to repent tries to dump the responsibility for the matter on to the offended, claiming that they are unforgiving. They use virtue as a means that allows them to sin and keep on sinning. I love Ayn Rand’s quote about how such injustice causes a person to not only suffer the initial loss but to also continually bear a second kind of loss when justice is denied them. People who claim that this is godly to endure such injustice in the name of keeping peace cause the Kingdom of God to suffer violence.
“When one acts on pity against justice, it is the good whom one punishes for the sake of the evil; when one saves the guilty from suffering, it is the innocent whom one forces to suffer. There is no escape from justice, nothing can be unearned and unpaid for in the universe, neither in matter nor in spirit—and if the guilty do not pay, then the innocent have to pay it.”
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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BTDT said,
” I don’t want to have to bury one of my children, and then be censored as to how I accept someone’s “apology” for badgering my child.”
That is a good way of putting it. Not only is this a situation in the JD Hall/Caner saga, but it comes up in all these other cases of spiritual or sexual abuse in churches. If the aggressor does apologize, other Christians jump all over that victims and say, “See, he (or she) repented so you MUST FORGIVE, and you MUST DO IT NOW, RIGHT NOW.”
Demanding instant forgiveness is, IMO, a form of abusing the victim all over again. It seems to pushy to insist someone forgive a person and do so right then and there.
I’m not totally convinced that guys like Driscoll and Hall are truly sorry for what they did. I wonder if they’re actual Christians to start with, too.
I used to enjoy Chris Rosebrough’s Christian podcast (Fighting For the Faith), but ever since Kay (from this blog) copied Chris’ comments from the show where he defended Hall, my view on him soured a bit. He was falling all over himself to excuse Hall. He seems to think that just because Hall said, “so sorry” that everyone should write him a blank check, forget the whole thing ever happened.
I think only God knows at this point if Hall is truly sorry or not and has turned over a new leaf. So many Christians are so naive. They are willing to instantly forgive and overlook so long as the wrong doer mouths off a few “I repents” or quotes a few Bible verses.
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@ refugee
King James Version Only is IFB, not SBC. (IFB = Independent Fundemantlist Baptist).
The IFBs think that SBC are too lenient and left wing – which is funny, because SBC is pretty right wing (though as of late, they hem and haw on hetero pre marital sex and homosexual behavior).
For all their (SBC) flaws, being KJV Only is not one of them.
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Credendum said,
AUGUST 12, 2014 @ 10:10 AM
To be clear: when I originally asked what is wrong with the SBC, I meant from J.D.’s perspective, not in an objective sense. I realize there are problems rife in every denomination, and, most likely, with every church.
———————–
Considering that J D Hall digs Calvinism and thinks girls wearing bikinis is sinful, a boy kissing his GF is sin, and a girl using cuss word on social media is a huge scandal….
He probably thinks anything less than a super duper, squeaky clean, super strict, G rated version of Neo Cal SBC, where adulterers don’t get stoned for adultery, is a cess pool. And I exaggerate only slightly.
See post above. Te IFBS think that SBs are super permissive liberals with watered down doctrine, when SBs are actually pretty moralistic and right wing. I mean, if you are so right wing that you think another right wing group is left wing, you are a wing nut.
(And please bear in mind I am right wing myself. But I realize there are extreme crack pots on the right, just as on the left, in religion and politics. so I’m not trying to insult right wingers en masse here, I am one.)
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@missdaisyflower
Completely agree!
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