Evidently a lot of people are proud of John MacArthur for showing his true colors about Beth Moore. Have a listen to this clip:
It’s one thing to have differing beliefs about doctrinal teachings. It’s a whole other thing to be rude to people who believe different from you.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again. This is not solely about doctrinal issues, but a vile dislike of women, period.
Todd Friel begins the discussion by saying Beth Moore’s name and asks John MacArthur to say a word that comes to mind after saying her name. What does he say, you ask?
“GO HOME!!!”
The audience roared with laughter. It’s apparent that the audience also has an opinion on Beth Moore and feel it’s okay to laugh at his demeaning comment. “Dr.” John MacArthur adds, “There’s no case that can be made biblically for a woman preacher – period – paragraph – end of discussion.”
Then Phil Johnson chimed in: “The word that comes to my mind is narcissistic.”
He’s calling Beth Moore a narcissist. That accusation is once again rude, but it’s also a farce. If he knew anything about narcissism, he would know that narcissists do not show empathy. Go look at Beth’s Twitter timeline. Heck, I just went to her timeline right now and the very first tweet on her reply newsfeed is this one, and she even uses the word, empathy!
Later he accuses her of preaching herself rather than Christ.
Yea, I don’t see empathy there, do you?
Oh, and no empathy in that tweet, either. Nope. Nada.
If you listen to Beth speak, she is humble. She does speak strongly against abuse in the church, including male church leaders who lord over people:
But do her tweets show that she is a narcissist? Look at her feed and how she engages with people. She is the real deal.
John MacArthur claims that Beth Moore wants power. I think he’s projecting. He is worried about women taking away men’s power.
Listen, I’ve dealt first-hand with leaders from John MacArthur’s church and with graduates from The Master’s Seminary. As a whole, I have never felt more inferior in my life as a woman after having talked with them. They do not elevate women. In their eyes, there is only one place for women: at home raising babies and ready to give their husbands sex. There’s nothing wrong with having babies and sex, but to reduce women to only those functions is devaluing and depersonalizing women. Women were given gifts by God to be used for His glory. To squelch them is squelching the word of the Holy Spirit in the lives of female saints of God.
This is evil patriarchy. This is squelching women and their God-given gifts – 50% of God’s creation. It is squelching the Body of Christ because they are not “allowed” to teach/preach. I am so over this nonsense spouted from male patriarchal church leaders. Both men and women are made in God’s image, and there is no mention of inferiority.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
KAS,
Apologies to you (and others) for taking so long to reply. I’ve been dealing with a busy few weeks at work, and a host of other issues.
First of all, thank you for asking about my mother. It’s been almost a month since she passed away quietly in hospice. My family and I are still learning to live without her. I’m grateful that I was able to take some time off, and spend part of it with supportive friends. Still miss her terribly. Many thanks to everyone here for their prayers.
And now, to business:
That’s exactly what I do. In particular, I do my best to remember Jesus’ command to treat others as I would like to be treated. I would hate to be treated like a second-class citizen of God’s kingdom, and have my gifts squelched, simply because of my gender. So I’m not keen to see women treated that way.
Which is exactly what you did in your explanation of Priscilla. You’ve assumed that she taught Apollos without exercising any authority over him. Why is that necessarily so? She had studied under Paul and worked with him. And she might very well have been a Christian longer than Apollos. Why wouldn’t he consider Priscilla’s instruction authoritative?
And I find that gender comp interpretations don’t work considering the Bible as a whole. That’s primarily why I reject them.
Two words: So what?
MacArthur’s words were beyond “tactless”, KAS. They were derisive and contemptuous — and not just towards Beth Moore. I found not a trace of love in them. And calling out a man without love who claims to be a Christian, let alone a pastor, is hardly an overreaction.
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Oh Katy! If I could hug you through the Internet I would. This makes me so worried for you 😞
[Btw, by all means don’t read beth Moore if you don’t like her, I don’t read her either. I’m just fascinated by the reactions to her. I hope you don’t read my opinions as in any way telling you what to do on this!]
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Serving Kids In Japan, my condolensces on your mother ❤️
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I’m so sorry, SKIJ. I can’t even begin to imagine that loss. I will certainly keep you and your family in my prayers as you grieve.
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Christianity Hurts: “I do not believe for a second Mark Driscoll cares one way or the other about Christianity’s truth. He is a very misogynistic perverted conman who did not want to work for a living and wanted a platform to trash talk his trapped wife.”
and
Christianity Hurts: “I have never told a comp man how his preferences caused me much toxic painful gross misery as a sexually abused little girl and him care at all. Comp men do not have it in them to care about women, little girls, or any raped little girl. Comp is all about men’s needs, fears, wants, insecurities, and feelings. Comp men have decided it is the job of all women and all little girls to hurt (even raped little girls) to make comp men feel special important and elevated.”
I agree with you. This is so true. I wrote a blog post ten years ago about how Mark Driscoll doesn’t care about the female heart, demonstrating this fact using his Peasant Princess series which is really all about men getting as much you-know-what at any cost to the trapped wife. It was a long post that I am not going to link here. But I will link a shorter post that I wrote three years ago. This post includes a quote in pink from the longer, older post. It’s easier to find this quote in the link I’m providing.
https://frombitterwaterstosweet.blogspot.com/2016/10/have-added-new-blog-to-list.html
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SKIJ, Thoughts and prayers sent your way.
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The question isn’t whether women were given gifts by God to be used for His glory. The question is HOW they are to be used. The older women are to teach younger women. It’s the only such provision made. Whether Beth Moore is a good teacher or even the best teacher since Jesus Himself is utterly irrelevant. God has set an order to things, and no matter who doesn’t like it, He reigns. Trying to reinterpret His word to suit our will is sin, and will only result in ruin and judgement.
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@Mara
I grew up with Christian men that had the same emotional maturity as the men in your article. I never had any respect for them. As early as age thirteen I found them to be stupid, obnoxious, childish, completely embarrassing, and a waste of time. My poor mother never knew what it was like to be married to an actual grown man. My joke of a father ruined her whole life.
The men in my baptist childhood were nothing but spoiled little boys pretending to be things they were not. They did not have the adulthood or intelligence to listen, think, or care about anyone but themselves.
Everything was about what made their life easier, what made them happy, and how they could get everything they wanted at their wive’s and children’s expense. They were to just too lazy, spoiled, juvenile, and self-centered to think and care about anyone but themselves. Thinking is much too hard for them. They are desperate for everyone to believe them to be manly men. Delta Force puts much emphasis on the importance of listening. Of course, they are confident adults and can easily handle listening to other people. They don’t have meltdowns if they have to listen and care for other people. It is basically their job.
Tough men listen, think, and care. Spoiled feeble little boys can’t handle all that.
The Christian men I grew up with had no business getting married, having children, or having sex. They were children.
There are many of these types of Christian blowhards that I have never believed to be a real Christian. Bill Gothard, C.J. Mahaney, Tom Chantry, Doug Phillips, John Piper, Doug Wilson. The list goes on and on.
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I agree. Men need to stop interpreting everything they read to make themselves into mini gods and to justify not listening to or respecting women. Check yourself
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Tony, “God has set an order to things, and no matter who doesn’t like it, He reigns.”
This is the cruel, capricious complementarian god you worship. What sort of loving God would, by his Spirit, give both males and females the same gifts, then cruelly tell those without the right “junk” that they are not allowed to open those gifts.
If you read Ephesians 4 carefully, it says God gives gifts… He gave some as apostles, and so on. So, the Bible seems abundantly clear that the gifting IS the office. Whether we recognize and accept those gifts or whether we reject those gifts in women, God is still giving them.
And that’s why it’s so dangerous to take a “case law” passage such as 1 Tim 2:12 and give it precedence over a “general equity” passage like Ephesians 4.
And… just so you know, that (and KAS’s “interpretation younger than me”) argument is the same sort of argument held for centuries that kept slavery intact. It was a few case law passages being treated as superseding passages like “there is neither slave nor free”. So, yes, these are novel understandings, but remember that Jesus had a “novel” interpretation of the law, too.
I find it intriguing that many Evangelical churches recognize the importance of an “internal calling” to be a pastor, elder or deacon, only when the person called is male. Somehow only men are able to discern the call of God?
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Tony, “The question isn’t whether women were given gifts by God to be used for His glory. The question is HOW they are to be used. The older women are to teach younger women.”
This is equivocation. The justification for “pastor as teacher” has to do with “teaching = preaching” and preaching is defined as being done in corporate worship. No complementarian I know believes women should be leading worship or preaching within a context of worship.
So, yes, I respect that Beth Moore feels her call to be within the complementarian framework of older women teaching younger women, but I also must recognize that complementarians speak with a forked tongue regarding the definition of teaching.
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Dear Sweet and REAL Christianity Hurts,
Thank-YOU for your compassion, empathy, and genuine concern for I appreciate your kind words and gifted wisdom when it addresses abuse within visible c’hristianity. Encouragement means the world (or should I say, the Kingdom to come in the future with Jesus’ Second Coming) to me, especially with regards to the eternal destination of my/other folks’ souls, and I am humbled by your words/out of the heart the mouth speaks encouragement.
Tears generously flow from my eyes, out of the pains of my heart, when I read your testimony, time and time again. You have this genuine concern for abuse victims which minister to me and my “marriage situation” at just the right time. I truly believe that God, the Holy Spirit, is inside of you, ministering to the needs of the “least of these” as Jesus said with His own mouth, at just the right time. All of us, at one time or another, are literally the “least of these” and the c’hurches “globally” fail to address this fact of Scriptures, but those who are called out, the true Body of Jesus Christ, will never fail to heed that “still small voice” of the Holy Spirit, in ministering and caring for others, no matter what the cost.
And the “cost” is great amongst those who genuinely care for the injustice of others.
May our LORD Jesus Christ watch over you as well, Christianity Hurts, for all of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, work and live inside of you, even if you do not subscribe to the gifts being relegated to c’hristian authority figures. The LORD of the universe does not recognize “earthly authority” as being a prerequisite to entering His Gates and His Courts, for our Risen Savior, upset the pseudo religious applecart at He walked this earth on the other side of the planet.
The apparel of our earthly dressing has changed significantly throughout the ages, but the condition of the “heart, mind, body, and soul” has not changed one single bit with regards to the plight of the visible “c’hurch.” Jesus said with His own mouth, “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves, be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” I do not believe for a second, that Jesus’ Word is gender inclusive to elevate one people group over another, even as a child seeking the truth in a world filled with sin.
The visible “c’hurch” system has ruled it their primary GOAL to elevate “authority/leadership” and “gender” “teachings” of a non-holy-spirit inspired bible (translated by males not filled with God’s Holy Spirit), to enslave those who do not espouse their “spiritual specialness” in lording it over others.
We love to quote Paul, Peter, John and all of the Apostles’ teachings with regards to the visible “c’hurch” denominations throughout the ages, however, how does that line up with Jesus’ own Words about “lording it over the others as the Gentiles do.” To pit Jesus against the Apostles teachings is a travesty that will permeate the money making, glorifying man instead of Christ, and the worldliness of the visible c’hurch goers “schemes” until Jesus comes again.
When I meditate upon the Gospels, over and over in my marriage situation, it comes as no surprise why the religious folks (they still exist to this day), hated the Son of God and the Son of Man, Jesus. He spoke the Truth and the Power to every given situation, and the religious hated Him for it…….same thing today.
My Hope is found in Jesus Christ. I praise our LORD for good people like you, Christianity Hurts, for your heart cares about His justice, with empathy and compassion that is not of this world.
May Jesus’ tender mercy touch your heart, as you have humbled me so.
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And even though she rolls with this interpretation (which I do not) it’s still notgoodenough for men like Macarthur. Because what they really want is for her to go home, shut up, and not teach anyone. Forked tongue indeed.
I have no patient for people who pretend complementarian thought is for the benefit of women, when it clearly does not benefit them, it hurts them again and again. And they have nothing to say to a woman like me, who doesn’t fit in their little wifey framework, except I suppose if I bothered to talk to them they might tell me to go home too.
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Serving Kids – I feel for you in the loss of your mother. My own father died not so very long ago, albeit expected and he wanted it.
My mother was a long time ago, but very suddenly, and it hit a lot harder. Not long before she died she said to me quite out of the blue ‘I’m actually looking forward to dying, it’s going to be very exciting’. (Strange thing to say, but she knew her call was coming.) Two weeks later she was gone, and only then I realised she wanted to comfort me by saying this. She was a very special lady as only a mother can be – which I am sure you can relate to in your own life, and I still have the greatest love and respect for her memory all these years later, and the love she showed me and my sister having come from a home without love.
There is something unique about ‘mum’ that should be honoured and cherished always.
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Many thanks to everyone for your prayers and kind words. Life and work have kept me from thinking about Mom all the time, but I’m still quite sad when I do.
Grateful for your support.
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This whole obsession with complementarinaism and egalitarianism is a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant thing. Most people don’t think in these terms and don’t even know what they mean.
First off, this whole subject of whether a woman can preach is built on a false premise of what church is and what preaching is.
Today’s American evangelical Church system is false and Catholic to the core. The idea of a of a one man show where the same guy week after week preaches on a stage is false.
Early Church gatherings were participatory gathered around table fellowship where they drank the holy vine of David and ate of the bread.
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Thank-you Solomon. You are spot on! The pulpit system we experience in buildings made with human hands called “c’hurches,” is indeed, totally man-made and performance based, as in attending a concert of sorts. Come sit in pews and pay your dues; don’t ask questions, don’t seek out truth, and most certainly, don’t read your Scriptures for yourself allowing the Holy Spirit to teach and minister to you, for fear that the average pew ornament might be set FREE!
The early Body of Jesus Christ, in fact, met in homes, breaking bread and sharing in the fellowship of bearing one another’s burdens as well as rejoicing with one another. It was very personal, as is our faith in Christ alone for salvation, and relationship oriented.
Many of us have found this kind of meaningful and worshipful fellowship outside of the institutional 501c. 3 c’hurch system, growing a maturing in our faith as the Holy Spirit draws many of us together at the foot of the cross daily.
Blessings to you Solomon!
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My issue with Beth Moore is not that she’s a female preacher. (I think Priscilla teaching Apollos along with her husband Aquilla disproves the notion that the prohibition against women teaching men applies to EVERY woman in EVERY church.) My problem with Beth Moore is that I think she preaches the Lordship Salvation (faith plus works false gospel) heresy. I struggled for so many years with the paralyzing fear that I might lose my salvation, and the blog expreacherman.com was so helpful in getting me to see what a heresy LS is and that we DO have eternal security in Christ and His perfect sacrifice for us on the cross. God bless.
expreacherman.com
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