Christian Marriage, Complementarianism, Doctrine as Idol, Emotional Responses, Gender Roles, Lori Alexander, The Transformed Wife

Spiritual Abuse: Lori Alexander Says Working Women with Disabled Husbands Should Know Where They Belong

-by Kathi

We haven’t looked at Lori Alexander’s “older woman” teachings for a while because not much has changed. Yesterday’s doodle stood out to me, though, and offered another prime example of how Lori continues to pile on spiritual abuse.

Text reads:

Many women want to continually discredit God’s clear commands to them. “My husband is disabled so I have to work!” So does this woman’s experience negate God’s command for women to be keepers at home? Wouldn’t women with disabled husbands and single mothers who work away from the home understand that it would be far superior for them to be home full time caring for their children and homes, if they had a hard working husband who provided for them? Wouldn’t they easily be able to understand that God’s ways are indeed the best? Many women don’t want to accept God’s commands. They try to invalidate them for ALL women because of their experience. Instead of acknowledging that YES, God’s ways are best, they try to cancel them for all women by judging God’s will for women by their experience, emotions, and feelings instead of truth and what is best.

 

My job focuses on employees who are medically disabled to work either short term or long term. This can cause a lot of stress in a person’s life, especially financially, as there are medical bills to deal with and loss of working time. I would venture to guess that if there is a female spouse who works, she will continue to work to help support the family. I know several women who work because they have a disabled spouse. Their ability to work helps provide health insurance and income to keep the household together. There is nothing shameful or non-honoring to God about this. It’s how life goes.

How is a woman with disabled husband supposed to be home full time caring for her children and rely upon an income-earning spouse if the husband is totally disabled to work? I’m not the only one to ask this question. Several other readers asked for clarification on Lori’s statement. Lori’s response was that they misunderstood what she wrote. (::cough:: Sounds like Piper ::cough::)

 

 

Lori responded to the comment, and then edited her comment. Here are both versions:

 

 

Notice she edited “Life is MUCH easier for ALL women when they have…” to “Life is MUCH easier for ALL women IF they have…” Women can only have an easy life when/if they have a man providing money for them?

Lori is saying that women should feel guilty if they don’t following God’s will for them to be home.

 

As long as Lori is fully supported in her teachings, all is well.

Lori tries to argue that women who say they need to work because they have a disabled spouse are only making their arguments based upon personal “experience, emotions, and feelings.” I say that Lori does the same. She gleans off her own experience of working for two years when her oldest child was born. She desperately wanted to be home and compromised her birth control method to make that happen.

She is able to live a comfortable life at home while her husband earns a comfortable living. Because she is able to live this way, she tells women whose families are struggling to make ends meet that nothing is impossible with God. In my opinion, Lori is abusing Titus 2 and feels entitled to her teaching because she is an “older woman.”

Instead of offering support to women who have to work because their husbands are unable to, she tells them that it would be “far superior” to have a hard working husband who provides for them. After all, this is God’s best plan for their lives. Does she even hear how this comes across?

Lori continues to spiritually abuse when she uses phrases such as:

 

  • “God’s command for women…”
  • “God’s ways are indeed the best.”
  • “Many women don’t want to accept God’s commands.”
  • “Women focus on experience, emotions, and feelings instead of truth.”
  • “God commands that husbands be the providers and women be the keepers at home.”
  • “Acknowledge God’s will for women is to be keepers at home.”
  • “Nothing is impossible with God.”
  • “Women should feel guilty for not following God’s ways.”

 

Women, no where does God say that it is dishonoring to work outside the home. God does not care about your relationship status if you need to work to provide for yourself or your family. Do what is best for yourself and your family. If you are home, great. If you need to or want to work, great. Please do not believe the myth that complementarian doctrine promotes: that the only way for women and men to live is if one provides and the other submits.

This doctrine is promoted as “biblical truth.” Truth is, Jesus wants us to follow a greater commandment:

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind  and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.

143 thoughts on “Spiritual Abuse: Lori Alexander Says Working Women with Disabled Husbands Should Know Where They Belong”

  1. You are imagining this?

    Sure. Me and literally everyone else on the thread including SKIJ who ‘has earned the right to comment in a way no-one else has’? Uh-huh.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. @ Deborah

    Quote from Dash,

    “My mother sexually molested me when I was two. The mere idea of sex makes me physically sick.”

    Quote from KAS to a victim of baby sexual abuse.

    “What had gone through my mind was that I have met and heard on two occasions men who have suffered very much more that you have – by a long way. If the grace of God was available to them – one was a holocaust survivor ”

    https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2017/04/20/victim-of-bill-gothards-teachings-shares-emotional-aftermath/

    KAS is really arrogant minimizing baby sexual abuse and telling someone who was sexually abused by their MOTHER other people have had it worse than them and handled it better. KAS is a horribal human being. KAS minimizing sexual abuse is a wonderful example of the comp cult.

    KAS has consistently been heartless towards everyone here.

    KAS does not have it in him to go off and think critically about what people say here. He sounds extremely bitter that people can leave his cult and talk about all the horrible things it does to men, women, and children.

    Like

  3. The non-tone police has spoken about who has earned the right to comment in a way no-one else has. I remember when this blog used to belong to Julie Anne.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. @KAS I certainly do hope you will listen to Serving Kids. Maybe it takes another male for you to be able to consider feedback valid. Whatever it takes, please consider the feedback you are getting.

    Like

  5. So, when the lights were out, and it was dark, KAS came hesitatingly, tentatively, scurrying from under a rock to leave a post and to scurry away once more?

    Did KAS ever answer my question put to him _in my post above_,

    Asking if 1 Corinthians 7 was inspired of the Holy Spirit and put down to parchment by men,
    —OR—
    Was that pro-childless, pro-adult-singleness passage placed into the biblical text by heathen, liberal, 1960s feminists, who got into a time machine and went back 2,000 years ago and snuck that 1 Cor. 7 into Biblical manuscripts?

    (Those dastardly liberal feminists!
    But shouldn’t KAS, being a man and therefore not supposedly susceptible to being “easily deceived,” have caught on to that deception?)

    Like

  6. Mark said to KAS,

    This blog serves multiple purposes. I think, though, that it is not primarily a place where we would expect churchgoers to find information about whether their pastor is abusive or not. It is more a place where victims, who have been ignored, silenced, and opposed by leaders within various cultural and theological systems can come to heal, grow, and even complain.

    So, I believe that, quite simply, this blog does not serve the purpose you think it should, and thus you are always going to be unhappy about something or other that is going on here. You can either accept that and move on, in whatever sense that means, or you can persist in your attempt to tell fellow victims how they should act.

    What I find discouraging is that in the cases I know, it’s always the victim that is expected to be more, controlled, shall we say, than the perpetrator.

    That is something I’ve pointed out to KAS in previous threads months ago.

    (Also to the other guy that was posting here, “D” who complains constantly that we’re not “nice” enough on this site, and we use to many crude words.)

    If this blog makes you that unhappy, there are other blogs and forums you can post to.

    As for me, I don’t generally post to blogs or forums that don’t fit my personality, that I don’t feel I’d make a good fit for.

    I lurk for days or weeks before dipping my toe into the pool by making a first post. If I don’t fit in after a few days, I leave and find somewhere else to post.

    I asked KAS time and again why he posts here.

    He never did answer me, but I was skimming some thread where he told someone else he has been “hurt by a church” and that if we wanted more details to ask (I think he said to ask SKIJ?).

    For someone who claims to have been hurt by a church, he shows no sensitivity to others who have been through something similar.

    It’s not KAS’ place to dictate to other wounded people how they handle and process their pain.

    Not everyone handles pain or anger in the same way you do, KAS, and you need to learn that’s okay.
    Stop lecturing other people on how you think they should handle their pain and anger. Keep those opinions to yourself.

    ~(awaiting KAS to either ignore this post,
    or to reply by simply complaining that it’s “too long”)~

    Like

  7. Deborah said to KAS (and the whole post was spot on),

    Your inability to accept feedback well or to stop antagonizing does not speak well of your maturity level.

    He’s unwilling to consider his actions and views are incorrect.

    This has been going on for months, maybe over a year (anyone else here recall when he began posting to this site?) – He maybe showed up here last year?

    KAS would much rather spend his time “tut-tutting” all of us, and insisting his ways of dealing with anger and pain are purely “biblical.”

    In the months we’ve been explaining to him that his behavior is obnoxious (and I really do think he should’ve been blocked months ago), and that it can add more pain to those already coping with it, he just wants to keep reiterating and justifying his actions.

    He’s convinced he’s 100% correct and does not need to change.

    Then he complains my posts are too long or too numerous, and I think he thinks my posts are not genteel enough.

    KAS loves to _Tone Police_.

    Tone policing is when people are told there’s a “right” way to talk about experiences.

    It refers to when someone focuses on the way that you talk about something, rather than what you’re saying.

    KAS routinely sails right past the content and substance of what people are saying on this blog to shame and scold them for how they say what they say.

    KAS spends more time discussing people’s reactions to X than he does to X itself.

    I think he likes playing Pharisee and School Marm.

    Like

  8. KAS said,

    Since I don’t and never have had any negative views on singles, I don’t know what other stuff I have said could be interpreted as being negative. You are imagining this?

    Your negative views of adult singles come out when you suggest they all are angry feminists who each have 50 dogs, and they consider their dogs to be their children.

    And as if to suggest any of that is wrong – if a single adult indeed has 50 dogs and thinks of them as fur children, so what?

    On previous threads, you suggested that single adults cannot understand, and can never know, what it’s like to be married.

    Which is false. Yes, we can know.

    I’ve sat through many sermons on marriage by pastors, who tell me, if I want to understand marriage but am single, I can “still benefit” from their marriage sermon, because one day I can put their golden pearls of marital wisdom into practice.

    If single adults can learn nothing about marriage from listening to marriage sermons, KAS, why do pastors keep telling us singles that we can?

    I’ve read books and articles on marriage.

    I have observed my parent’s marriage, and that of my brother and sister.

    I for one was in a long term serious relationship for years where I lived with my ex fiance on and off.
    My ex and I got into arguments over house work, where to eat dinner, and how to budget finances.
    Very much like what married couples go through, minus a wedding certificate.

    (continued in future posts, since KAS doesn’t like to read long posts)

    Like

  9. KAS (telling a lie here) said,

    Let me let you into a secret, I have never tried to tone police. Even if I wanted to, I couldn’t.

    Lie, lie, lie.

    Much of your participation on this blog consists of tone policing, KAS.

    You frequently lecture and shame other people that how they are dealing with pain, or how they are expressing anger, is supposedly “unbiblical,” and, you say, that outbursts of hostility won’t do anything to change the mind of the pastors we are angry at.

    You’ve done that for months on this blog. For months.

    You’re not only a weasel worder and goal post shifter, but a liar now as well.
    Noted.

    (likely more to come in a future post, but I have things to do, so I have to get away from my computer for awhile…)

    Like

  10. KAS said,

    Take the horrible word ‘comp’. As a non-American, I have never seen a ‘comp’ marriage with any signs of abuse going on within it.

    Do you care to clarify here?

    Some Complementarian men do abuse their wives – sexually, verbally, and /or physically.

    Some of those comp men do so because they are naturally abusive and use comp theology as a shield and justification for the abuse,

    and some become more controlling after becoming a comp, once they hear the church endorsing sexism under Comp, where they are told things such as,

    “God designed men to rule women, and husbands should get the final decision making in a marriage when there’s a dispute.”

    BTW, for decades, in the USA, it was not considered proper to openly discuss issues such as domestic violence.

    So, women suffered in silence, behind closed doors.
    And their churches, if they are church goers, shames them from “humiliating” their husband by going public by discussing the abuse. Women were, and sometimes still are, blamed for the abuse of their Comp husbands and expected to keep quiet.

    Also, many abusers are notorious for abusing behind closed doors. They put on their “nice guy” face for you, their neighbor, and for their co-workers and church members, but when alone with their target (usually the wife and/or children), that is when they beat, mock, scream, and punch.

    So, if KAS says he’s never seen a comp man abuse his wife, that must mean all the Christian women who say their comp husband abused them are all lying and making things up,
    like all the women who post to the Christian domestic violence blog _A Cry For Justice_.

    Are all the women on that blog saying they were in marriages to a guy who was a complementarian Christian who was abusing them all lying, KAS?

    Why don’t you try running over there and Tone Policing those ladies, and scold them for not talking about their abuse, hurt, anger and pain, in a KAS-approved way, and see how far that gets you?
    And tell them that you’ve never seen a complementarian Christian marriage where the complementarian man abuses his wife. Go on and try it over there.

    -(Continued in next post.)-

    Like

  11. (continued)

    KAS said,

    Take the horrible word ‘comp’.

    Don’t like the word “comp” KAS?

    It’s short for “Complementarian.”

    You’ve said on previous posts going back months that you are a complementarian, and that you agree with complementarian views.

    I for one get sick and tired of typing out the word “complementarian.” Much easier to type “comp”.

    Do you know who chose the term comp to describe themselves?
    Comps, that is who.

    So, if you hate the term, blame them.
    It’s not a term I invented, nor anyone else here invented. It’s their own label.

    Originally, the term “complementarian” was cooked up by gender egalitarian Christians, but comps stole it and took it over to promote their stupid, sexist, “male headship” garbage.

    I believe the “Jesus Creed” blog has a post about that somewhere.
    This may be it.
    _Revisionist History on the Term “Complementarian”_

    One of the more interesting elements of this history is how the term “complementarian” was originally a term used by egalitarians but that became the fixed term by the so-called “complementarians” for their own view!

    One of Giles’ observations is that what we now have — in the reality of this debate — is hierarchical-complementarians (those who use the term “complementarian” today) and egalitarian-complementarians (those who are called “egalitarians” today). Both believe in complentarity of the sexes…

    Like

  12. KAS said,

    I read very carefully what Serving Kids said, I am willing to listen. He has earned the right to comment in a way no-one else has. Katy as well.

    That right there is a give-away, where you are admitting to being a Tone Policer in a round-about way.

    You refuse to really listen to the substance of what someone is saying to you, unless they are incredibly genteel about it.

    I don’t have the patience to communicate like that. I used to be like that many years ago, especially in Christian circles, but no more.

    No offense to Katy or SKIJ, but they tend to be very genteel in their replies to you. Which is fine, that seems to be their natural personality.

    But not everyone is like them in communication or temperament.

    You demand and expect people to communicate their thoughts on this blog, not only when replying to you, but even when they are just leaving a comment addressed to the blog readership generally, in a tone that YOU approve of.

    I’m not going to molly coddle you all over this blog when you are being insensitive and obnoxiously pompous in how you talk to others here – so I will Tone Police you right back.

    And, by the way, this remark,

    “I read very carefully what Serving Kids said, I am willing to listen. He has earned the right to comment in a way no-one else has. Katy as well.”

    Is just all kinds of obnoxious, arrogant, and haughty.

    You really expect people to be super deferential towards you, no matter how obnoxious you are acting, no matter how rude/ offensive/ obnoxious your comments are.

    I bet back in your school days you were the one guy who would tattle on the other kids when they smoked behind the gym.
    Then you ran home wondering why they’d shove your head in a toilet in the boy’s room and flush.

    You said,

    I don’t intentionally antagonise either,

    At this point, yes, that’s what you’re doing – it’s intentional.

    You’ve had several people ask or tell you several times over a period of months to please stop doing X, Y, Z – but you continue to do X, Y, Z, and you defend it to boot.

    You said,

    comments here that have been crassly insensitive to me;

    The greater sin is how you are adding additional pain on to people already in pain when they stop by this blog to discuss their abuse. And you continue to do that. But now you’re trying to play the victim.

    I used to have a boss like you.

    She would harass me and others for years. She was horrible.

    Then I would occasionally over-hear her whine to other co-workers,
    “Nobody here ever wants to have lunch with me. When they see me walking towards the break room to get some coffee, they immediately run the other way.”

    When you bully people, don’t expect them to cozy up to you and want to be your pal and to share coffee breaks with you.

    Like

  13. Lea said Re: KAS post

    <

    blockquote>KAS re SKIJ: “He has earned the right to comment in a way no-one else has.”

    This is an utterly ridiculous comment, btw.

    <

    blockquote> I second that.

    If this blog had an eye-roll emoji, you’d bet I’d want to put ten of them under that comment of his.

    Oh, they do have an eye-roll emoji. Here’s what I think about KAS’ “he’s earned a right to comment” remark
    🙄 🙄 🙄

    And because I’m supposed to own 50 cats:

    🐱

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  14. @KAS Bottom line for me is that you identify as a Christian man but you are callous and unwilling to stop hurting Christian women no matter how they try to communicate the distress you are causing. That is not acceptable. No matter what justifications or obfuscations you present. You are willingly poking at the wounds of survivors. No matter where in the world you are that is unacceptable and as a part of the body of Christ it is reprehensible.

    Like

  15. P.S. @ KAS I was married over 30 yrs in a comp marriage. I am single now. I have a pretty clear picture of both sides of the fence at this point. You were not there when my Elder husband raped me, abused our children, and all other manner of evil. To say that you haven’t seen abuse in a comp marriage. Seriously, you think my businessman husband did his evil in front of “fellow Christian men” like you? If so, your understanding of abuse is so impotent as to require you to not speak to the issue. This is me speaking calmly to you. Stop while you still can.

    Like

  16. Deborah – @KAS I certainly do hope you will listen to Serving Kids. Maybe it takes another male for you to be able to consider feedback valid.

    Why should I only listen to a male? Did you not notice that in my comment about Serving Kids earning the right to criticise I included Katy? Katy is a woman!!!

    You are willingly poking at the wounds of survivors

    That is a very serious accusation. I most definitely do not seek to add insult to injury, and have deliberately attempted to avoid this. I disengage if possible if a poster starts to make it too personal. Sometimes therefore I don’t answer questions if I think it will only make matters worse. I don’t have unlimited time either.

    This is why I am not going to answer Daisy’s posts above, skimming all I see is KAS this and that. (What’s the point of answering questions from someone who accuses me of being a liar?)

    The thread is supposed to be about Lori Alexander and her potentially damaging advice. Remember her?! She is rightly criticised for suppressing dissenting opinions.

    I am against abuse in any form as much as anyone here, but I do have a differing (dissenting?) view on how it is best counteracted, and how commenting can blunt the effect of legitimate and well-argued critiques of the false doctrines that can enable abuse.

    Pretty much all of the odd doctrines and weird practices I have encountered over decades now have had their origin in the United States, from where they have been exported to gullible believers in other countries. I’ve been taken in by it sometimes as well. Anyone attempting to counteract this at source in the States certainly has my support.

    I’ve still got a couple of things to say to SKIJ, but it will have to wait a while.

    Like

  17. KAS, “That comment betrays you have never remotely understood what I am getting at on due process.”

    Remember in the Sound of Music the nuns singing about Maria… “How do you catch a cloud and pin it down?” Seems pretty reasonable here.

    I think you suffer from the typical problem I find in theologians. They compartmentalize their arguments. So, for example, their argument FOR infant baptism conflicts with their argument AGAINST child communion, but if you shove their faces in the contradiction, the response is typically, “no, you don’t understand my point about [one or the other].”

    Like

  18. KAS, “Let me let you into a secret, I have never tried to tone police. Even if I wanted to, I couldn’t.”

    KAS, “For example, if those exposing abuse in churches wish to be credible, I have often argued they need to keep their language in keeping with apostolic instructions, and avoid mouthing off or swearing.”

    Wikipedia, “Tone policing (also tone trolling, tone argument and tone fallacy) is an ad hominem and antidebate appeal based on genetic fallacy. It attempts to detract from the validity of a statement by attacking the tone in which it was presented rather than the message itself.

    In Keith Bybee’s How Civility Works, he notes that feminists, Black Lives Matter protesters, and anti-war protesters have been told to “calm down and try to be more polite”. He argues that tone policing is a means to deflect attention from injustice and relocate the problem in the style of the complaint, rather than address the complaint itself.”

    Here’s an article that talks about how it is used (which incidentally includes word choice in social media) https://othersociologist.com/2017/06/17/tone-policing-people-of-colour/

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  19. My 28 year old nephew passed away on December 12, 2018. My heart is cut to shreds and I grieve, am broken, and am beyond understanding the Ways of Jesus Christ at this time with regards to my brother/his wife/their siblings/and grandchildren.

    They are crushed, yet strengthened fully knowing Jesus Christ as their authority (Matthew 28:18-20) over all the earth and fully knowing the LOVE of our LORD.

    Love, empathy and compassion flow from our wounds in praying with our faces planted in dirt of this earth, for another hurting soul, in this case, my beloved brother (who is one of my best friends and protector of my well being) and his precious family over the loss of their first born.

    The religious mockers will mock as is the traditional role of the visible church (my religious husband has mocked, scorned and hated my side of the family for years…the complementarian man that he is, and the doctrines of demons they preach and teach so well that leads people to worship man instead of the Living Christ, our Redeemer and Friend), the unbelievers will mock, laugh and scorn those of us who belong to Christ, His sheep made whole those His finished “work” on the Cross, and the visible church will gather together where the priest/pastor man will stand above all of us from his unbiblical pulpit, and lecture us on the virtues of “the c’hurch,” and his important “leadership role” in lecturing us common folk about our “sinful nature,” instead of pointing us to the humility and love of Jesus Christ. And yet, these priests, pastors, and important religious leaders are living the secret sins of their own making, all the while, exhibiting no sorrow for those who are hurt, suffering, and are CRUSHED and BROKEN over the death of beloved child.

    This is precisely why I know that only Jesus is the Good Shepherd. This is precisely why I know that only Jesus, my Savior can restore my soul (not a pastor/priest/reverend/most holy pope/his highness, elder, church board member, deacon, deaconess, or any other “spiritual leader…..oy vey!”). This is precisely why I know beyond a reasonable doubt, that only Jesus can lead me to greener pastures in His due time and give me the kneeling beside His Still Waters. This is why my righteousness/great wisdom/and great knowledge is nothing, absolutely nothing, compared to the righteousness of knowing that Christ hath forgiven me of my sins and the sins of this world, which is still and always will be the greatest mystery which the limited human mind can comprehend. This is why, when I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, surrounded by the religious leaders of our day, whether the celebrity clergy folks or the self righteous c’hurch goer who doesn’t believe that we are saved outside of c’hurchianity…..standing on both sides of this valley, taunting/insulting/laughing/scorning/correcting/criticizing/lying and slandering your name/hitting/choking/punching you/reviling you,and looking down on you as if you are the scum of this earth, worse than “dogs” in Jesus’ day, I can still walk through it because I know that Jesus still Lives and is coming back in the future to judge the living and dead at that particular time. And I know that I can no longer “fear no evil” within the ranks of c’hristianity, because Jesus Christ is my Pastor, my Friend, my Comforter, my Great Physician, my Teacher/my Rabbi, my Head, my Cornerstone, my all in all – One and Only Mediator between my Father Who art in Heaven and meself……..to which religious leaders will be a hater of me soul for I cannot, and will not bow down to a pastor/reverend/priest/self entitled religious leader with an ‘office’ attached to their name.

    And I know beyond a reasonable doubt, because His Word tells me so, that Jesus Christ hath prepared a table for me to sit at, in the presence of me enemies (most of which are “religious,” yet know not Christ), and He has anointed me head with oil and me cup overflows….not because of the greatness of meself, rather, due to the fact that Christ hath saved this sinful individual of the wrath of me sins, for all of the “wonderfulness of meself and the “great works” I have accomplished” are null and void in Light of the Blood Shed on that Cross at Calvary for thee…..this child.

    And because of Jesus Christ in our lives, Jesus’ goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of me life…….and they are numbered by Him. And I shall dwell in His House……forever……..Psalm 23……the Promise of our LORD Jesus Christ as given unto us sheep who belong to Him.

    Today, I am grieved at how Jesus’ sheep have become “genderized,” “minimalized,” “lorded over,” “abused and left for dead in the pastures” by those who exhibit great “religious authority” over “the least of these in our earthly systems.” What hath become of c’hurchianity?

    The Body of the Living Jesus Christ moves, works and heeds the voice of the Holy Spirit, living inside of each individual believer……..the Holy Spirit is never contained within the walls, buildings/edifices, or the earthly denominational religious systems we experience today, and will never, ever succumb to the “human hand” religious experiment we experience in our day……..a fenced in pasture, a human shepherd, and a religion all designed to worship a man/his family/his experiences/his greatness/his wonderfulness/his lordship over others/in essence-his deity…….replacing the the Living Christ within each and every believer…..whether child, woman, or man. Jesus’ sheep………..I know fully why our Father called His Son “the lamb of the world,” simply by watching my Dad’s sheep interact with their lambs……there are no earthly words to even try to explain the love of a female sheep for her little lamb……the sight is absolutely lovingly breathtaking.

    I am a woman. I have earned nothing with regards to posting here. I am a born again believer and follower of Jesus Christ (not because I am the greatest or the most humble (yea, right) in His Sight, and am not ashamed for loving Jesus, and loving me neighbor as meself (of which I have learned to do coming out of an abusive Baptist c’hurch with an assembly of god pastor man (who is as flattering, charming, and charismatic as they come).

    And I know, beyond a reasonable doubt, whether deemed logical or illogical from this world’s standards, that I am saved and will spend the rest of eternity in the Presence of me Savior, not because of what the worldly visible c’hurch preaches to me, BUT, because I have read and understood the truth (Jesus Christ) of the Holy Scriptures for meself, because I do have the Holy Spirit living inside of me of which there is no shame, embarrassment, condemnation, nor remorse.

    It is when we share our burdens with one another, whatever they may be, we are fulfilling the law of Jesus Christ per the book of Galatians. There is no amount of prayer, pain, suffering, hurt nor tears that will bring my brother’s son, his precious child, back into this world, and we have no choice but to accept this fact in trying to understand His Ways, for His Ways are higher and more Holy than we can humanly comprehend.

    I find it amazing to the Testament of the Workings of God, the Holy Spirit, that the most prayers, compassion/empathy/relating to the hurt and suffering from others, support, building up and encouragement to go on in this earthly life until Jesus calls us to His Home, financial support, and just plain listening and ministering to one another in His Greatest Love…………

    comes from the unchurched believers and followers of Jesus Christ, to which the 501c. 3 c’hurched believers…..hate, mock, scorn, and abuse…..with their earthly passions. The true Body of Jesus Christ, knows no walls, no “religious program,” no “tithing procedures,” no office of the “pastorate or priestship” (?), eldership programs (?), church board leadership and installation presentations (?), holier than thou speakership (?), or the “I am a spiritual “leader” and know god better than you-ship,”……….no, no, and no some more……..’tis a sad, sad, truly sad day, that we have replaced Jesus Christ……with earthly leaders who will tell you point blank, or ever so quietly, that they are your overseers/your “authority”/your “lords”/your personal “jesus”/ and your personal “saviors”, instead of pointing you to the authentic Jesus of our Holy Scriptures.

    Today, I am so broken and crushed for my brother and his family, losing the life of their beloved first born son. I have had 70 and 80 year old women sit at me table and cry like babies over the loss of their children…….and we must let them mourn and cry till the cows come home, for they are “being human” to their pain/personal loss/memories; and as born again believers, our job is to listen and comfort, and comfort some more in showing these suffering folks, that our LORD Jesus Christ, still loves, still is crying out to His Father Who art in Heaven, and is still loving and ministering to the least of these in their brokenness.

    At the end of this day, and every day;

    JESUS IS OUR GOOD SAMARITAN, and will never leave us alongside of the dirt road, lacking His love and acceptance as one of his flock; His Sheep. May our heartfelt prayers and ministry of Jesus’ love be with those who are hurting, suffering, struggling, and at a complete earthy loss……

    during this 2018 Christmas season……….as me brother shared with me over the phone, “You will never understand the pain of losing a child, until you have experienced this yourself.” To which I said………..nothing…………the Holy Spirit said, “say nothing, just listen to your loving brother and his pain.”

    The Holy Spirit knows best.

    Amen.

    Like

  20. “And they laughed Him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.” Luke 8:53

    Of particular importance here, is the word “they.” The “they” in this particular truth, is not exactly who we, as believers, would think…..the unbelievers…….oh, no……but the truth the matter is…..

    The word “they” refers to those who “thought and believed,” they were believers in God, our Father, and yet, they were the ones who “laughed Jesus to scorn.”

    The apparel, the costumes, and every day lifestyles have changed considerably, and yet the heart and minds of religious men and women, have remained the same. Not so shocking in Light of His Truth.

    And they still……….”laugh Jesus to scorn.”

    Like

  21. I appreciate your love and compassion, especially on behalf of my brother, who loved his son like another brother…………

    Christianity Hurts and Carmen, you have such kind souls that know how to fully minister to the hurting; so grateful for genuinely empathetic hearts here.

    I find it comforting too, that me dog licks the open wounds of me hurting heart, for animals have this sense of comforting and defending the least of these, more so than the complementarian religious folks that surround me. But then, I already expected no love, compassion, empathy, or even a listening ear from these folks because complementarianism is a dying religion, a dead faith, and an abusive, sick and twisted god of their own making; not the LORD Jesus of me faith.

    My dog is not a complementarian and doesn’t care a wit about the vain philosophies of the apostate c’hurch……..he just wants to be fed, watered, given a safe refuge to live, and loved unconditionally. The ‘god’s police force’ of this earth could learn a few Biblical characteristics from “dogs.”

    Christmas won’t be so “merry” for many folk around this planet who are indeed suffering……..am more sensitive in praying for those folks who need to be reassured of His love this season.

    Just tears.

    Like

  22. Katy – I’m sorry to hear this news. I’ve not experienced this myself, but I do have fairly close friends who have.

    Allow me to repay the kindness you showed me and pray for your family later. Without being glib about it but that God may comfort those affected.

    Mark – there is a time for everything, but in view of Katy’s news worrying about posting tone is so petty in comparison, so I’d be happy to leave it, at least for a while.

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  23. Just tears.

    I’m so sorry, Katy. What an awful thing to have happened. Best to your family.

    I think the holidays are bittersweet for many people who have experienced losses around that time and in the midst of the cheer its good to remember that.

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  24. Katy, I am so sorry for your loss.

    In addition to talking to us here about your grief, there are free grief group therapy sessions hosted all over the nation by different churches, a program set up by Grief Share.
    (I think you’re in the United States, as I am?)

    I think they used to have a web page to show which churches have grief share meetings.
    _Grief Share_

    Yes, there’s a link at the top of their home page, “Find a Group,” and a search box in the middle of the home page for that to find churches in your area that have meetings.

    I think it’s even more difficult to lose someone around a holiday like Christmas than at other times of the year. I’m very sorry.

    Like

  25. One of the topics I periodically address over at my ‘Daisy’ blog pertains to grief.

    I had to discover the hard way after my mother died that a lot of Christians don’t know how to deal with someone in the grieving process, or don’t want to be bothered with it in the first place.

    Some people I tried talking to during my time of grief admitted straight up they just don’t know what to say or do, so they opt to say and do nothing, which is also very painful.
    (This seems to be a common phenomenon, I kept reading about it in my research on grieving.)

    _Understanding Grief, by Jane E. Brody_

    For people who know someone who is undergoing grief:
    _Regarding Grief, Sickness and Depression: Hold Your Tongue and Offer Your Heart Instead by Heather Plett_

    I hope that others in Katy’s life are willing and able to be there for her in her time of grief, and don’t shy away from her.

    Like

  26. Very practical advise, Daisy. I hope you find a support group, Katy! Dogs are lovely companions but I’d much prefer imagining you being surrounded by the comforting arms of a special person. 🙂

    Like

  27. The mercy, grace and love from all your here has been a healing catalyst in mending me broken heart…..as well as the prayers for my brother, wife and his sweet family. A mere “Thank-You” seems so impersonal and simplistic at such a dubious time in asking our LORD……”WHY?” “Why did this happen to such a sweet, kind, and genteel young man of 28 years of age?

    I relayed to me brother last evening how folks around this world are praying for him and regarding them in their thoughts, to which his eyes teared up and he bowed his head in such comfort and pain………there are no words.

    I, personally, am deeply touched by the love, kindness, and sincere deep caring for our hurting souls at this time. It is healthy to mourn….it is healthy to cry……it is healthy to listen and hear the cry of a broken heart……it is healthy to listen to another believer (me nephew’s former employer/boss) share wonderful stories of me nephew, in getting me brother to laugh and rejoice in the life of his son, around the kitchen table no less. There can be such healing medicine in laughter, even though suffering in the valley of the shadow of death.

    All of you are so kind and I receive the love, compassion, empathy, and respect you have shown me here, despite our differences of opinion.

    And I am forever enriched by each one of your condolences. Jesus asks that we be witnesses of His peace, as peacemakers………and I have to confess……I have literally seen His teachings come of life here, on the open forum of Spiritual Sounding Board.

    Whether you are a believer in Jesus, the Living Christ, or an unbeliever……..I just want to say…..thank-you…..and I love all of you so much……here. Each one of you has ministered and enriched me life……so much more than you could possibly know. And I did read, very slowly, each one of the grieving posts you offered here, Daisy, and it blessed me soul to no end. Very grateful to you.

    As my nephew’s mother (brother’s wife) whispered in my ear as I hugged her, she said…..”Always tell your kids now much you love them, no matter what.” Another loving and wise woman is she. Sympathy and prayers this Christmas season for family and all others who are suffering and hurting. May we all be comforted by Jesus….and the amazing love of others in trying to make this world a better place.

    Love and blessings to all who have comforted.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Katy,

    As a family here, we grieve with you for the loss of someone who brightened your life and many other lives.

    Like

  29. Appreciate your family’s tender sympathies on behalf of my brother/his wife and family, and our extended family’s grief. Sharing one another’s burdens sure comforts, actually fulfilling the law of Christ (not my words, but His.)

    I sure miss you ,Avid. Enjoy your family during the holidays. Many Blessings.

    Like

  30. Julie Anne,
    Thank-You for praying. It means so much to be loved here as it has assisted greatly assisted in the healing process. Blessings to you and yours as you celebrate Jesus this season.

    Like

  31. Katy

    “Today, I am so broken and crushed for my brother and his family,
    losing the life of their beloved first born son.”

    I’m so sorry Katy.

    I have always appreciated your precious words of life.

    Matthew 5:4
    Blessed are they that mourn:
    for they shall be comforted.

    It is well with my soul.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Oh, Katy, I’m so sorry to hear of your family’s loss. We are sitting along side you while you grieve. Wishing you all peace when you need it most.

    Like

  33. Appreciate the kind words of concern and sympathy here, including Julie Anne, A. Amos Love, and Kathi. Your words have engraved the LOVE of Jesus Christ into my heart and am forever grateful for caring human beings.

    And Daisy, if you are reading this post, I want you to know how much your post on “grieving” rings true, especially with regards to Christianity. I used to be one of those flippant “just turn to Jesus” prototypes, until the full impact of a close family member’s passing from this earth, in my case, my sweet and kind nephew who loved the wilderness of the Colorado outback, cut me heart into pieces. I find it comforting, as in bearing one another’s burdens, that folks I do not know personally here, offer more compassion, empathy, and sincere caring words, than the proud “church members” that surround me.

    I am led to believe that showing or expressing “grief” of any kind, is shameful, showing that I don’t have enough faith in Jesus to “work out all things for the good of those who love Him.” And my response has been, “Did not Jesus grieve in the Garden of Gethsemane before He knew of the cruel abuse He was about to face in His near future? Did He not show us what bleeding emotion like?”

    And does being an “overcomer,” (a word I heard often in my former abusive Baptist c’hurch with an AOG pastor man) mean that we cannot show tears, hurt, sorrow, tears, mourning, and all of the physical ailments that affect our bodies when extreme sorrow/and stress are inside of our souls/bodies? I remember sitting in that c’hurch of overlords years ago, planting that plastic smile on me face, and “going through the HAPPY emotions,” so I wouldn’t have to receive that “you have no joy in the lord” rhetoric from the brood of vipers that surrounded me. And yet, when they were burdened with grief, all of us lower laity dogs were to wait on them hand and foot.

    Julie Anne, I want you to know how much your blog of fellowship has ministered to me over the years in helping me heal in becoming whole again in me faith. A. Amos Love has brought me full circle in knowing that the ministry of the saints occurs on a daily basis with only Jesus being me LORD and Mediator. And I love Kathi’s Sunday Morn service for those of us who choose to worship Jesus in our homes in spirit and truth, instead of being corrected, criticized, and condemned by the religious folks who know no love for Jesus’ sheep……..and they are numbered in the legions.

    We can know all of the laws of God’s Word and still not have love, thus, eliminating the finished Work of Christ on the Cross. Jesus tells us that we are to bears one another’s burdens, thus fulfilling the law of Christ.

    And I have been shown His Love here. My life is forever changed because of my sweet nephew and mourning my brother/his wife’s loss in this life, and with the help of the Holy Spirit, I pray that I will be more sensitive, understanding, and prayerful of others’ loss.

    Tears of Hope.

    Liked by 2 people

  34. Dear Katy,
    It could be that empathic humans do what we do – hurt when others hurt. All the best to you when your heart is heavy. I am so sorry for the loss of your loved one. I hope you have others in your life who are offering solace and compassion at this time.

    Like

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