Mental Health, Spiritual Abuse, Jamie Tull
Jamie Tull, a kindergartner teacher from California, has been found alive after being missing for 17 days. Tull was found in a private field approximately one-half mile from where her vehicle crashed the day she went missing. According to one of the three men who found her, she stayed alive by drinking water from a cows’ trough and eating locusts. When found, she was dehydrated and severely sunburned.
Jamie Tull’s father, Jim Devenport, reported that his daughter had a mental illness, bipolar disorder, requiring medications. However, Ms. Tull was urged to stop taking her medicines, and here’s the shocking reason why:
According to Tull’s father, she has bipolar disorder. He says she had not taken her medication for about six months because a pastor and his wife told her that pills lead to demons. Source
Listen as her father, Jim Devenport, describe Jamie’s history of mental illness, her faith, and how she took the advice of her pastor and his wife, and stopped taking her bipolar medications 6 months earlier. If this doesn’t get your blood boiling . . .
(For some reason, I am unable to embed these videos. Please click on the links below the following 2 images.)
- This is just an image. Please click here for video.
The following video has even more discussion about the pastor and beliefs. This clearly is not a safe church.
- This is just an image. Please click here for video.
So, if she had been found dead, would the pastor and his wife have been charged with manslaughter? If anyone discovers the name of the pastor or church, please let me know. I have a few questions I would like to ask that man.
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Spiritual Sounding Board 
When the pastor graduates from medical school, that is when he should give medical advise. Seems to me that the “demons” are dwelling more in the pastor’s abode than anywhere else. How would he like it if we, in the medical field, usurped his role and started handing out spiritual advise which contradicts his Sunday sermons whenever the patients came to see us. Persons, including the pastor, need to limit their teachings to areas wherein they have expertise.
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May God swiftly bring vengeance on these wicked people who profess to be christians!
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Barbara, Is he wicked or is he stupid and incompetent? For sure he is not qualified to lead a congregation of people. Wicked sort of suggests he has malice of forethought. Strikes me more that the man is the brightest of God’s creatures and worse, he is leading other persons down his irrational paths. I am not quite sure how he came to the conclusion that there were “demons” to be activated by virtue of her taking prescribed medication but I do believe the man is not playing with a full deck.
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I grew up in a church that believed things like this. They thought all mental illness was demonic and/or a lack of faith. Most of them weren’t wicked or stupid, in fact many of them were engineers, business owners, computer technicians…etc. They just sincerely bought into this theology that if you have enough faith God will heal you of anything and everything. Unfortunately this then leads quickly into, “well if you didn’t get healed, it’s your fault, because you didn’t have enough faith.”
One of the main ways we were taught to “prove” our faith was by not “trusting in the arm of the the flesh” aka the medical field. Taking any kind of medication was a no, no but medication for mental illness was…well let me put it this way, I once heard my dad say that the only reason they sometimes worked was because they appeased the demons somehow!
Again I don’t think most them were wicked. For the most part they sincerely wanted to follow God and thought this was how you had to do it. After growing up there I’ve become a strong believer that what you believe about God (your theology) determines pretty much everything else about your life. I believe this because I saw perfectly normal, non-wicked people display an insane lack of compassion towards hurting people, just because of this belief system. I believe this because i have seen my parents and family come out of this belief system and become completely different, very compassionate people.
Although I will admit that is still haven’t told too many people in my family that I’ve been on depression meds for the last 3 years! I’m pretty sure they would be ok with it but there’s too much residual childhood memories for me to overcome the fear of telling them. Plus my counselor says it’s none of their business, which I knew but it gave me the freedom to not feel like I was hiding it.
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Perhaps a charge of attempted murder is in order?
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That’s awful! I hope that poor woman will be okay and get the help she needs, REAL help, not “advice “from some religious nutjob who doesn’t have the slightest clue what mental illness is. I was in the IFB church for 13 years and I heard over and over again that mental illness and depression and anxiety is selfish and sinful. In situations like this, that pastor needs to face some kind of repercussions, such as practicing medicine without a license. I hope her family pursues legal action against this wackadoo.
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a. This would be a facepalm if this weren’t so dangerous.
b. Do they tell people this with cancer/diabetes/etc? I know there are some churches who rule out all medical interventions, but many seem to have a special issue with mental health medications.
c+. Your pastor is not a physician or licensed counselor, likely. Always get a second opinion.
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I agree with “Sunshine,” let’s see a lawsuit here.
No one, no family, should have to suffer like this.
Pastors passing out psychological advice need to be warned.
Pastor John MacArthur and his Grace Church learned their lesson.
From the New York Times:
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25 years ago, when I was working overseas, a pastor with depression committed suicide after a long prayer session ending in a faith commitment to stop taking his meds. Two days later, he committed suicide, leaving a young wife and two small children. It was awful and did change the theology of some, but not everyone. They kept insisting the pastor just didn’t have enough faith.
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Another Pastor Poster Child for Carl Sagan’s The Demon-Haunted World…
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Hmm. If you read the latest comments on the Doug Phillips post, I think you’ll find good evidence that there are people who are so narrow and intractable in their views that they feel it’s appropriate to rage about someone else’s prejudice at the same time they are showing themselves to be prejudiced by all the labels they are calling others.
I find myself always trying to defend that “emotions” and “spirituality” are two separate things, and that mental health conditions can be the result of the brokenness of the world and not some particular sin.
I think that was Jesus’s point here: ‘As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.”‘ (John 9:1-3)
I think Evangelicals, like the disciples, want to trace every physical or mental condition back to God’s punishment for some sin committed, especially if they can point it to the person’s own sin, somehow.
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Mark, Great! I am glad you showed up. While you are here, I am wondering if you could take a look at a lecture series I am thinking about buying and tell me what you think. I will provide the link below. What I don’t want is just a rehash of Jesus’ teachings – not interested. I am looking for info on alternate theories of Jesus and his associates. Do you think this would do it. I am not sure I understand all of the terms and concepts they are referencing but I suspect you would and could advise me. For sure you know a whole lot more about these concepts than I do.
Since I am, at best an agnostic, I am looking to explore alternate theories about how this whole Jesus-Christianity thing came about. I grew up Catholic so I already know the party line but I would like to explore some alternative concepts. Would this lecture series do it?
Here is the link. http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-apocryphal-jesus.html
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Wow. I heard about the story but did not know this part. This totally sounds like something Lori and Ken would advise.
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And the worst part of all this?
Pastor ManaGAWD has a ready explanation for Jamie’s breakdown:
Spiritual Attack(TM) — “DEMONS! DEMONS! DEMONS!”
And a perfect comeback when he comes under scrutiny:
“PERSECUTION!!!!!!!!”
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@Linn:
Unspoken: “..didn’t have enough faith [Like MEEEEEEEEE!]”
Coup Counted in the game of Christianese One-Upmanship.
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LEB, not quite sure what you mean by alternate theories. This might be taught as a set of alternate theories, but specifically, it would be delving into extra-Biblical accounts of the same time periods.
I’m not familiar with most of these books, but my understanding is they’re sort of like reboots of a popular movie series. The bits and pieces I’ve read seem like scripture, but they’re a little off.
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Mark, I have listened to a sample lecture from the series and it seems interesting enough. As a non-believer, it has always fascinated me how dedicated persons are to Christianity. It is a source of interest to me albeit whatever attracts the people, somehow missed me. Then, again, people are very dedicated to Islam or Judaism or whatever so perhaps it is a universal phenomenon and one which I simply have not gotten the “gene,” as it were. Sort of like if you did not inherit the gene which allows you to taste a particular chemical (which is single-gene mediated) you just can’t understand why people find it bitter-tasting. Cats can’t taste sugar or sweetness hence they don’t have a sweet-tooth like we do.
Somehow, I did not get the “God gene” so it is ever a source of fascination to me exactly what it is that the people are actually seeing in Jesus which is not to say that I cannot credit him with some valuable concepts. I am also curious as to what :other versions” of the whole Christianity story exist because the final one chosen for the new testament just does not cut it for me. I know that certain writings i.e. gospels were accepted and certain others were rejected. You and I spoke of this concept previously. I’d like to know by what authority or expertise did the “chosen” books get into the “accepted” column and why were the others rejected. Since the decision was made by man or men, I can’t help but think there were ulterior motives for which ones made the cut. Perhaps it was those which best served the party line as it was perceived by one or another persons in power.
When I went to the ashram I spoke about, I was amazed to see how people loved the guru and virtually worshiped him. Seemed ridiculous to me. I am no less amazed as I read the postings here and see where persons love Jesus with so much fever. It seems like the same phenomenon to me. Each person thinks his or her own brand of religion is the only “right and true” one. I guess you have to have whatever it takes to feel these emotions. I am like the cat without an ability to taste the sugar in a piece of cake. In your case, not only to you “feel” it and “experience” the whole God thing but – like other evangelicals – you crave a “personal relationship” with the object of your worship – in this case Jesus. It is all Greek to me. I think the lecture series might help me to better understand what is actually transpiring.
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@LEB,
Here is a bit of how Christian culture works in case you are unfamiliar. We are taught not to compartmentalize the spiritual and non-spiritual aspects of our lives. That “If Jesus isn’t the Lord of everything, he isn’t the Lord at all” is a slogan you will hear. Our faith should permeate through every part of daily life.
I think it’s a noble goal, but it’s rife with unrealistic expectations. Christian leaders, think they have a leg up on the unbelieving world in nearly every discipline. The lack of training is more compensated by the “Spirit of God” residing in them. “Secular” expertise be damned. We have the Bible!
Scientists with PhD’s and Noble Prizes? Bleh! Ken Ham knows more about science than all Ivy League PhD’s combined. Historians who dedicate their lives to studying history? Meh. David Barton has the Holy Spirit! He knows a lot more about America’s Christian past than anyone in the field of history. Neither has an advanced degree, but they see it as a good thing. Apparently actual studying and researching pollutes and detracts the mind from the Word of God.
So do you think pastors would cede the scientific study of the human mind to experts?
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David C,
Good comments and insights. I think it boils down to the fact that one either has the “religion” particle in his makeup or he does not. Heck, I went through much of the same education as many others here. It simply did not resonate with me. I am not saying it is right or wrong to be one way or another but rather such is just what it is. The people who “feel” the whole religion bit tend to stay in the churches and the religion and the ones who don’t tend to drift away. In this particular forum, I believe the people did “feel” the religion aspect but they were unfortunate in that they were members of dysfunctional churches. They could just as easily have been members of good churches. They drew short straws, as it were and lots of them got hurt, as a result. Other people who found themselves members of these dysfunctional churches but did not have the “devotion” component within them probably would have left said church. What would hold them there?
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This pastor has shown that he cares more about doctrine and belief than people. Bipolar is not a metal illness that should be messed with. Medication is important. I hope this woman is getting the proper treatment she deserves and stays far away from this pastor.
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I did a similar blog post a week or so ago, on a similar topic,
For Most, Jesus and the Gospels Are Not the Answer for Depression, Suicide, and Other Mental Health Maladies (Part 1)
Evangelist Ray Comfort has released a new movie called “Exit” where (from what I saw of bits of it on a Christian TV show he was on promoting it) he is basically telling people with depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation that all they need is the Gospel (belief in Jesus) and faith in God or in God’s promises.
I had depression and anxiety for many years, and my Christian faith did not help me, neither did Jesus, Bible reading, prayer, etc.
Although I did not find secular psychology and medication to be entirely useful in my particular situation, I would encourage any Christians with mental health problems, if you’re already taking medications, do not stop taking them because your pastor or someone at your church says so!
If you’re a Christian with mental health problems, go ahead and give medications and/or talk therapy with a psychologist a try.
A day or two after I made my post about the Comfort “Exit” movie, Warren Throckmorton did a similar critique (his was titled, “Dear Ray Comfort and David Barton: Depression is Not a Culture War Battle”).
I have no idea why the God of the Bible is no longer running around doing miraculous healings for everyone (they seemed almost common place in biblical days), but he’s not. So, I do wish that pastors today would stop telling Christians to count on God for a healing.
I do see a lot of Christians on TV claim that God healed them of drug addiction, cancer, and whatever else, but that’s not been my experience for me or family members of mine who had physical or mental health problems.
If you’re a Christian who is sick and tired of hurting, I am sorry to tell you you’re not likely to get relief from Jesus, the Bible, church, faith, or prayer. Please see a doctor instead of relying on faith.
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BTW, thank you, David, for alerting me to this story.
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Re: Pastors giving medical advice.
I had lunch with my attorney yesterday and asked a few questions that were outside his specialty (although I knew he had personal knowledge of the topic). He demurred to answer, saying he would not give advice in that area.
If attorneys know their boundaries, why don’t some clergy? Why do they pretend to be qualified?
I think a few lawsuits would shut these guys up.
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Preferably both, depending on the severity of depression. (other mental health challenges talk to your doctor. I mean, do that anyways). For mild depression, I would add try exercising, especially outside. Also:
Always talk to your doctor before stopping these medications! You need to know if there are going to be side effects, you need to taper, etc.
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@Mark:
Or (from another angle) ancient fanfics?
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@Daisy:
Remember this is the same “Banana Ray” Comfort of Banana BJ fame. (Guy has NO clue how he appears outside of his clique of amen-ing followers…)
Most miracle stories in the Bible cluster around two special times: The Exodus and the time of (and immediately after) Christ. We also don’t know how long an interval there was between recorded miracles — in some cases, there could have been long gaps where nothing obviously supernatural happened.
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@Anonymous2:
Two words: DIVINE RIGHT.
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Headless Guy, Yeah but there were countless other writings from the time and some were “approved” and some were not. I’d like to know what was the criteria and who made the decisions. Anyway, I bought the lecture series on Audible and will see if it has anything of value to offer. I can’t help but wonder if the books which made the cut did so for political and socioeconomic reasons. I personally do not think objective truth had much to do with the final decisions. More like what best served the political needs of those in power at the time.
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Headless Gap: in some cases, there could have been long gaps where nothing obviously supernatural happened.
Or………. there was never any supernatural events in the first place but people reported it so for a variety of reasons having nothing to do with hard core reality.
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Any intel on the identity of the real demons in this case ? — them being the couple who got this woman off her meds. Know they will hide behind accusations of “persecution” and “freedom of religion” but they need to be exposed. Thank you Julie Anne for taking the story to a www audience.
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I have identified two churches that she and her husband were connected with. I have suspicions on which one it is, but won’t say anything publicly until I find out for certain. I’m still fuming about this. ~ja
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@livinghistory2012
Of all the American Evangelical quirks, this has to be the most aggravating. The South is the hotbed of Evangelicalism and this is coming from the same people who lecture black people to get over themselves, put down the race card, and let bygones be bygones. Of course this isn’t confined to the South.
The level of projection is simply breathtaking.
I am boycotting the Bible because it doesn’t say Merry Christmas.
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Never understood why any pastor would tell someone else to go off their medication. We are lucky to live in a time with good doctors and good medicine that actually helps people to function. Why make life more difficult than it has to be?
Now going back to another topic raised on this thread…..
If God doesn’t exist—why bother picking and choosing bits and pieces from here and there to create our own religion? If none of its real anyway, then why bother?
If God is real, then how can we pick and choose what we want God to be—as if we were choosing toppings on a pizza? That’s actually trying to make God in our own image. When we can figure out how to make our own planets and galaxies then we can try to make up rules for God to follow.
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Not least of all because it makes them look and sound like Scientology.
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