The Power of a Transformed Wife, Lori Alexander, Sex in Marriage, Submission
-by Kathi
This is a book review series of The Power of a Transformed Wife by Lori Alexander. If you are just joining us, you may click on previous chapter reviews to catch up.
Introduction & Chapter 1 Chapter 2 Chapter 3 Chapter 4 Chapter 5 Chapter 6
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Chapter 7 – This Thing Called Sex
Oh, goody…the sex chapter! Before I started reading this chapter I thought to myself: “Self, I wonder what wise words Lori will give women about sex? Let me guess…It will be about how husbands want sex all the time, and how wives are to give it to them anytime.”
Lori’s opening sentence:
Men like sex…a lot.
Oh, self, I am not disappointed in you. P.S. Lori, women like sex…a lot…too!
Again, Lori has changed her nagging target from Ken to her women readers:
Since God commanded older women to teach younger women to love their husbands (Titus 2:4), I’m reminding you that one of the most important ways a wife can express love to her husband is by satisfying him on the marital bed.
There you go, younger women. Lori is here to tell you that you need to give sex to your man anytime he wants it! Tell me, Lori, how well did that work for Josh Duggar or Doug Phillips? I’m sure that their wives were very submissive and worked to satisfy their husband’s sexual appetites, but they needed more. A wife can do all that she can to try and satisfy her husband’s sexual appetite, but sadly it may never be enough.
Lori then spends three pages quoting a reader’s comments to a man who states he has authority to tell his wife that she needs to have sex with him three times a week. Said reader made up her mind when she got married that she would never say “no” to her husband when he wanted sex. Her argument is that it is no different than saying “no” to a child who is hungry or wants cuddling. The problem with this logic is that, yes, there is a big difference between the needs of a grown man and a young child. A grown man should be able to hear “no” to sex and be understanding.
If your husband is having an affair or addicted to porn, wives are still required to give sex anytime and anywhere:
I have mentored women whose husbands were addicted to porn and had affairs. Naturally, these women had grown bitter and angry toward their husbands who had betrayed them, but this resentment is against God’s clear command to them. I must stick to the Word of God and teach them their responsibility is to love their husbands in spite of his behavior. If he has had an affair, asked for forgiveness, gone through counseling, and been checked for STDs, then I believe the aggrieved spouse should be willing to forgive her husband for any offense against her.
Part of me understands this. I have seen marriages in which one partner has an affair and they are able to work it out. I would say that is not the norm. If you have a spouse who has had multiple affairs or has viewed pornography for a long time, he most likely is not going to change. However, Lori also tells us that a wife forgiving her husband and offering herself sexually to him may help bring him to the Lord. Telling a wife that she needs to stay in a lie of a marriage is not helpful.
Lori rounds out this chapter with an old blog post about how most men want to go on vacation to have lots of sex. There’s too much discussion from readers about how to discreetly snatch a quickie – now I need to wash my eyes out. Lori ends with 1 Corinthians 7:5 which talks about not depriving one another of sex and highlights that this verse does not use vacation as an excuse to not have sex. Right…because the Corinthians must have had lots of sex while they were on vacation.
Allow me to sum up this chapter:
- Lori states that God instructs her to tell younger women to have lots of sex with their husband.
- Lori uses other people’s words to back up her statement.
- Lori has nothing new to say.
Plowing onward to Chapter 8, “Win Him Without a Word.” I’m guessing wives are out of words because they’re too busy having sex.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
No surprise. Vacationing is an excuse for CJ to preach to his family for a week and then micromanage them to make sure they have smiles on their faces for the whole week in obedience to Christ. It’s like a mini-SGM church. And by some weird projection, that is what all fathers should desire to do on their vacations?
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“Lori and her readers have called people who disagreed with them mentally ill, sinful, rebellious, and have called for repentance.”
Don’t forget reprobates! That was a good one.
About her book there were a few comments that made it sound people were just rushing out to buy her book out of sympathy.
She did a blog post today recapping everything from facebook.
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Avid Reader, I will say this as politely as possible: You are not a historian. Regine Pernoud is. Patristic scholars / church historians like Schaff, Kelly, etc., are. Rodney Stark is a historian. You have no basis for some of the facts you are stating. Please be aware of the Internet in your research. Many so-called quotes from the church fathers don’t actually exist in the corpus of their writings, or are grossly taken out of context, duct taped together from different parts of their writings to make them seem misogynist, etc. That doesn’t mean they are perfect 24/7, but much of what exists on the Internet is sheer libel. (Hint: If a quote is missing a citation from actual source material, it’s probably fabricated. On the chance it does exist, it is probably taken out of context.)
Since you are an “avid reader”, like myself, I thought you would appreciate some positive developments for women from history–especially church history–which are useful when discussing women’s rights issues and the way the church treats women. I have even recommended a book by Regine Pernoud for you to read, if you are so inclined. (And believe me, that book was an eye-opener!)
But please, don’t make blanket statements about church fathers, the Talmud, etc., if you can’t go to the source material and prove it. That means citing the exact work you were reading from, in such a way that I can hit the library or Amazon and read the quote in context for myself. Anything less, and I suspect unintended libel, however good your intentions might be.
FYI, my bringing up the Mongols wasn’t to absolve them of war crimes against women, but to point out what should hopefully be an obvious discrepancy: The Chinese considered the Mongolians “barbarians”, even as they practiced foot binding on their women, while the Mongolians treated their own women very well on the whole. Who are the real barbarians, exactly? And how much of the Mongolian stereotype comes from reading history through Chinese eyes? But I digress.
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That plays on the Christian martyr complex. She can’t leave the comments up because people might actually agree with the comments, or realize that they are not mean and nasty. However, if she “summarizes” the comments to say that they are mean-spirited, vicious, personal attacks just because she is humbly proclaiming the true word of God, then she can get sympathy and affirmation from her doting supporters.
I like to say that suffering for being a Christian jerk is just suffering for being a jerk, not suffering for Christ.
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thingsgodlywomensay: I’ll have to check out the post after work. Yes, this reprobate mom works full-time to help support the family. I am a sinful feminist and have bought into all the lies! 🙂
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Clockwork Angel, I don’t think it’s fair to assume that Avid Reader hasn’t read history extensively.
History is utterly full of confirmation bias. I like Stark because if you research who he is, he’s doesn’t have an axe to grind about trying to prove a Christian worldview, but his detractors have painted him exactly as that.
A great example of this is a simple question, did FDR’s economic policies bring an end to the Great Depression, or did they prolong them? You can find Ph.D. economists and historians with writings all over the board on this. The Keynesians, and by proxy, the modern news media, claim that deficit spending pulled the economy up by it’s bootstraps. The Austrians claim that the U.S. economy was improving when FDR took office, and his policies actually reversed the upward trend. There are rooms full of indisputable records of all sorts.
If something this well documented and recent is disputed, then why should we be surprised when historians look at a period of time 500+ years ago that have writings and records collected only by a few people, typically the elite in society, and come to divergent conclusions?
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I don’t read it through Chinese eyes, I read it through ‘these people raped and murdered and enslaved huge numbers of people, I’m not willing to give them on pass on it’ eyes.
This is not a mongol vs. Chinese question, its a basic humanity question.
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Despite growing up on the outer fringes of conservative-evangelical-homeschooler culture, I directly encountered this teaching exactly ONCE, at a bridal shower I attended in my late teens. No one present – a good twenty-ish women, almost all of the others already married but a variety of ages and personalities – voiced opposition to the idea that a wife is not allowed to say no when her husband wants sex. That was the day I decided in my heart of hearts that I was never going to so much as consider a relationship with someone who remained a part of that world. Screw expectations, I just… no.
(Disclosure, as of writing this I’m a single twentysomething vaguely agnostic woman with mental health issues. So I’ve got a few things keeping super-religious males away from me beyond the fact that I wouldn’t date or marry one if such a creature were to – for some inexplicable reason – go after me.)
(Also HI, I’m a longtime reader and first-time commenter. The community here intimidates me a bit but I have enough feelings about this that I figured I might as well chime in.)
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Mark said,
I think the internet is really helping to bring some of this down and to light – at least the bogus teachings I was raised with (pre-internet days of 1980s on up to the mid or late 1990s)
I used to post to a Christian board about ten years ago that had many forums (that forum was eventually closed; I don’t think it’s up any more).
I would hang out in the forum for singles but also lurk in the “married couples” forum, where I’d see all sorts of eyebrow- raising confessions and arguments by married people.
I came back to the singles forum at that board after having lurked in the married couples area to say how ironic I find it that so many churches shame anyone for being single past 30, but if you go lurk at the Married Couples forum, I told them at the time, you’ll see married people yelling and screaming at each other about How Awful Marriage Is.
You said,
Because of the internet, the word is starting to get out, such as…
Christians Are Not Called to Have Amazing Sex
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Clockwork Angel,
This is a place where people come for healing. To share some of their deepest thoughts. To be real about where they are. No one here is trying to be a historian. We were all sharing from what we had read. You shared a book that had fascinated you. That’s a good thing. There’s plenty of room here for differences of opinion but let’s not start tearing each other apart.
Now you are correct that many people depend on the internet for their reading. I’m not most people. I read a crazy amount of real books, especially books that are hundreds of years old. I love to read history through the eyes of people that were actually there, not the twisted opinions of people just trying to sell books.
I’m a skeptic that refuses to believe something just because someone said so. When studying something, I dig really deep, going as far back as I can to comb through as much data as possible to find the truth. Now I could defend myself by posting original sources and historical data on what the church fathers thought about women, but it gets pretty depressing. Besides, how would that help anyone? There’s some other great conversations going on here. I’d rather listen to you all and go read another book than bother spending anymore time defending myself.
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Hello, Octavia!
I didn’t see your post until now (it must have been in moderation maybe because you’re a new visitor??), or else I would have said hello to you sooner. Or maybe your post was there, and I just didn’t see it for some reason.
Welcome! 🙂
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Welcome, Octavia! I’m glad you’re here.
Please don’t feel too overwhelmed and intimidated…we’re just people. Yes, we all have opinions and we welcome yours too. We come from all different walks and are in different stages, yet we have a lot in common. Thanks for reading and feel free to join in whenever you’re comfortable.
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Octavia,
Welcome!! Glad that you spoke up. Hope to hear more from you.
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Mark- if we taught kids the truth that waiting for sex doesn’t guarantee good sex lives, the kids may not wait. I have mixed feelings about this because waiting is simply God’s standard with no promises, but if i had had my wedding night before I said, I do, there absolutely would not have been a wedding.
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Welcome, Octavia!
Irene, I can’t tell from your comment if this is a good or bad thing, but I think some of the people who got married without even kissing must have chemistry or other problems that they would have known about much earlier if they had just made out a little. You can find out things about a man from the way they interact physically that you might not get otherwise.
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(Conversely, you might ignore red flags if the chemistry is working.)
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BTW, sorry for posting too much but I just read the ‘temper tantrum’ article and Ken seems to think women should just check emotions at the door? Is that a thing he thinks is possible?
And if I were Lori, I would be pretty irritated at being constantly referred to as a ‘difficult’ wife.
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Irene, “if we taught kids the truth that waiting for sex doesn’t guarantee good sex lives, the kids may not wait.”
There’s a lot more to it than that. I think there are things we do simply out of obedience and trust that God’s will for us is because God loves us and wants what’s best. That is not to say that waiting for sex until marriage will make it awesome sex, but that it will be better than not having waited.
There’s much more to marriage than sex, and if it weren’t for my wife and children, I would still be a legalist in an abusive church.
My wife may very well have been in your camp.
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Octavia, “That was the day I decided in my heart of hearts that I was never going to so much as consider a relationship with someone who remained a part of that world.”
Yes. I know many people who grew up in the conservative homeschooling culture, including my wife. Not only do I completely agree with that sentiment, I think it’s compounded by the fact that most churches in that world will sacrifice the couple over the appearance of righteousness.
It would be one thing marrying someone from that world and knowing that the church will provide real help and counsel if things aren’t working and even, perhaps pushing you apart if the relationship is toxic. It’s completely other when the church pushes two otherwise healthy people into a codependent relationship, and then when the relationship becomes toxic, the church tries to fix it be making it even more toxic.
And… welcome to the discussion!!!
Lea said it well: “It’s not just thinking you are right, because everyone thinks they are right. It is how you deal with people who simply disagree.”
This is definitely an area I can grow in and I hope my responses haven’t kept you on the sidelines 🙂
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Lea, “BTW, sorry for posting too much but I just read the ‘temper tantrum’ article and Ken seems to think women should just check emotions at the door? Is that a thing he thinks is possible?”
This seems to be a core tenet in Neo-Calvinism, that we can and should control our emotions to the point that they are completely separate from our experience – even our emotions before God.
To make it relevant to the current discussion. Neo-Calvinists would say the wife should always say “yes” to sex no matter how violent and degrading that sex is. That’s because all the negative emotions a wife might have from that experience – the despair, joylessness, anger – are not valid Christian emotions. Instead, the woman must repent of her lack of faith and pray that God would give her hope, joy and affection. If a wife cannot experience those positive emotions, it demonstrates a lack of faith, such that, if a wife wants a divorce, or complains to the church about that mistreatment, the “REAL” problem the church needs to be involved in is dealing with the wife’s lack of faith and obviously sinful responses to her husband.
I would like to say that I’m exaggerating, and perhaps I am a little, but if you read the Neo-Calvinists they just love to turn the tables on the victim exactly like this.
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Considering what we know of their treatment of women, such as Karen Hinckley and Marie O’Toole (formerly Notcheva) — we have proof that you’re not exaggerating at all, Mark.
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And I bet anyone that this false and dangerous teacher Lori has every book, has watched every “movie” and has every bit of paraphernalia of the “50 Shades of Pervert” rubbish out there. She is seriously deranged, IMO.
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Avid Reader, I do apologize if I’ve gotten in the way of any of you healing. That was not my intent. I had intended, in fact, to help you all heal by giving reading recommendations that would help paint the world in a brighter brush, which for me has certainly healing. In fact, that one book I recommended earlier helped me do exactly that–heal. Likewise, checking into commonly mishandled church father quotes also helped me heal and realize their not nearly as monstrous as their made out to be. I was at a point in my faith where I couldn’t believe in Jesus anymore, because I thought the church hated women and didn’t care about them. I was wrong, and I am glad I was wrong. Because I nearly walked away from God. After all, if the church is that messed up and misogynist, then what’s the point of all this Bible stuff? Christianity would obviously be a useless faith that does not truly change its followers.
I hope this helps you understand my motives. God bless. I promise not to push anything on anyone here anymore. I honestly didn’t mean to. I just didn’t want anyone to believe harmful lies that aren’t true, like I did. Lies nearly destroyed my faith, and I want you all to have a very vibrant faith, because I love you all.
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Clockwork Angel,
We appreciate the insightful thoughts you have shared and hope you will continue sharing your heart. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
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Irene, “if we taught kids the truth that waiting for sex doesn’t guarantee good sex lives, the kids may not wait.”
It’s absolutely true that waiting does not ensure good marital sex–but statistically speaking, it sure helps by reducing the likelihood of STDs, reducing the likelihood of relational issues, eliminating the possibility of stepchildren, and the like.
Regarding bad sex and the link to Relevant’s article provided, it strikes me, per “Jess’s” commentary on being in a chemistry-less marriage, that even arranged marriages in India generally allow the couple to meet before their wedding day so they can figure out if there is basic attraction. We can debate over what level of affection is appropriate–my wife and I enjoyed osculation prior to wedlock–but if we pretend that spirituality compensates for basically “flatlining” at seeing the other person, we are being gnostic fools.
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I think until Lori herself is emotionally or sexually abused, which I hope she never is, she should keep her mouth shut. Until Ken screams at her and calls her a bitch and tells her nothing she does is good enough over and over and over…..keep quiet. Does she understood that sex with an emotionally abusive man just makes you feel USED?? I hope she has no clue I do not wish pain upon her. But she is healing pain upon ME and doing it with a Bible verse to boot.
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Mark — yep!! The church I grew up in, most people had zero trouble sacrificing… well, pretty much ANYTHING in order to appear perfect on the outside. (Which is why a good number of families have at least one child who’s all but severed contact completely once getting out on their own. I probably would’ve been one of them if not for health issues.)
For me personally, it’s more of a mental-health thing. I can only put up with so much manipulation and general BS, and I like to save what little patience I have for people I’m paid to play nice with. Walking back into the fire… would not end well for me or anyone else around me, but mostly for me. And as much as I realize that there ARE some good men who for whatever reason remain in the tradition they’ve grown up in or perhaps misguidedly stumbled into the crazy without realizing what they signed up for… I’m not a fixer. I’m not gonna try to bring someone out of that. Thought about it once, and may still end up trying if a particular situation in my life plays out, but it’s not something I have the heart for. I’m not my mother. I’m not going to pounce on the first half-decent specimen that looks twice at me. I believe in LOVE, in all forms but especially relevant in this case between two human beings who commit // attempt to spend the rest of their lives together.
The one good thing I’ve learned from watching my parents’ marriage // playing relationship counselor for them since I was a preteen – if you don’t genuinely LIKE someone, DON’T FREAKING MARRY THAT PERSON. The only reason my parents are still together is because they’re two of the most stubborn people I’ve ever met and because my mom needs my dad’s health insurance or else she will probably die. Not because of, y’know, actually wanting to put up with each other.
Abigail – YUP!! Been there done that. One of the worst feelings I’ve ever had.
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Sorry, Octavia, your comments should not be going into moderation. I don’t know what the problem is!
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Seems like a woman can’t win in legalistic churches. If you’re a virgin they shame you. I expect Hollywood to ridicule middle aged celibates, but the church? Oh, if you land a man like every Christian woman does (if you don’t it’s because God hates you) you’re his sex slave, plus you keep his house immaculate and manage your own private daycare with the full quiver he has forced you to produce.
Most churches ignore me (or worse) because I’m disabled, single, and poor. But at least I’m not a Stepford wife who imagines disagreeing with her vapid ideas is hating God. For all we know women like her may be victims of emotional if not physical abuse. Misery loves company.
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Thank-you for the conversation here. I have learned volumes and appreciate the fact that Kathi is making a concerted and educational effort to warn the Ekklesia, the Body of Christ, from using Lori or Ken Alexander’s teachings as a model for relationships and marriage. You are still strong and courageous Kathi! Smile!
The fruits of their marriage and lives should never be used as a replacement for the teachings, Words, and Ways of Jesus Christ, for He treated women far different than the patriarchal model taught by ministers of another spirit. And when I ran, bolted out the doors of a church (and Praise our LORD, never to return) who taught patriarchy, ESS, and carefully hid the sexual crimes and practices of leadership’s homes as well as the pastor’s sordid practices from the lower laity, I began to read and understand the Holy Scriptures for myself.
It was then, that God, the Holy Spirit, pointed me to Jesus and His teachings. And it was then, that I began to know deep within my soul, how much Jesus loved women; how much Jesus loved me, His child; how much mercy, grace and freedom he gave me, a sinner, because He died and rose again so that I may live with Him forever when I am called to His Heavenly Home;
and at the end of the day, how humbling it is to know how much Jesus values me, men and women alike, for He created them in the first place. Our faith is not about lording it over others, it’s about serving Jesus and pointing people to Him.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ has been distorted, perverted, and destroyed because of the patriarchy, the matriarchy, and any kind of human hierarchy traditions of man, because man desires all of the power, man desires all of the worship, and man desires to be god, in place of Jesus Christ, Who is in fact, our One and only true Mediator between our Father, and us, His children.
May the chains and burdens that man places on us, be broken, so that we can all be at that well, where Jesus met that Samaritan women on that day, treating her with respect, dignity, and love, despite the fact that she was a ‘horrible sinner.’
Thankfully, Jesus still says that He is the One who has all of the authority, per Matthew 28!
I appreciate all of you here that minister to my soul. And I haven’t heard the word “Sorry” coming out of a believer’s mouth/soul in ages. THANK-YOU Avid Reader for that exchange for it fills my soul with hope, His Hope!
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I am sorry Rachel for the way in which c’hurch folks treat you. I can guarantee that your voice ministers to folks here; like me. May God be with you and show you how much He loves you today and everyday. Please keep speaking.
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Katy, great that your journey has gone so well since leaving. I still struggle emotionally with the god I grew up with even though intellectually I’m in a similar place to you. I’ve only been “out” for about three years, though.
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I highly recommend the book Unholy Charade by Jeff Crippen. It deals with domestic abuse and the church’s desire to pretend it never exists among the members. Enabling the abusers.
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Having sex is the most important way to express love to your husband. Hmm. If a man’s hungry and tired enough a nice dinner might be more appreciated.
Plus, if you’re doing a When Harry Met Sally thing is that really love or manipulation? It’s good you’re married and not fornicating, but manipulation, lies, and flattery are unloving and unchristian however you cut it.
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You will not like Gods words come judgment day.
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Phillip – I’m not sure if you’re simply leaving a drive-by comment, but it would be helpful for you to back up your concern for a wife’s salvation come judgment day if she doesn’t provide sex on demand.
Also, your comment is intimidating – there’s no reason to infer that someone’s eternity is at risk on a non-salvation
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I’m sure Phillip is just flexing his all-powerful judgement according to Divine Command Theory . . . It probably makes him feel quite superior. Another keyboard warrior for (his) god . . .you know, the ones who feel they’re ‘real’ men. . . Smh
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