***
Earlier, I posted about the reconciliation between Alex Grenier and his parents. I don’t think I’ve ever done that before — reported on a situation that has a positive outcome. The thought of restored relationships after years of harm makes me cry. This has been so amazing. When I first got involved with Alex’s story and then formed a group to work on the “Who Would Jesus Sue” campaign to bring media attention to this story nearly 5 years ago, I don’t think I ever expected to see such a positive outcome. My thoughts were that hopefully Alex would win the court case, but I don’t think I ever imagined that something this beautiful could have occurred.
Alex is my friend. We have many things in common, and I love him like a brother. After he lost the first couple of rounds in the court process, I saw him change. I saw him go downhill spiritually and emotionally. He was angry (and rightly so). The new Alex was more cynical. I saw close his circle of friends get tighter. He became serious and driven, and he had to do things his own way. There were several friends I know who remained steadfast in their support of him, even though Alex sometimes lashed out.
About 6 months ago, I noticed a change in Alex. He wanted to prioritize the important things in his life: his family, his business, and I think it was around this time that he also wrestled with his God. For me, it was difficult to observe this long process over the years. I was watching the fruit of what happens when someone is harmed. We all know it can happen, but when you have been closely connected to someone, the sadness is real. You know there’s nothing you can do except continue to extend love and grace. You just hope and pray that your “brother” will get it all figured out. Alex is one tough dude and I knew he’d have to get hit hard (because he and are so alike). The nearly five years of legal battles, and all of the emotional and spiritual strain in his life, left him spent. He was done. And apparently, it was in this place where Alex was humble, and was able to find truth, love, and healing. I love you, Alex. I think this is your life verse, literally:
I have fought the good fight,
I have finished the race,
I have kept the faith.
2 Timothy 4:7
Alex has released more information about the background of his recent reconciliation with his parents on his Facebook page and gave me permission to share it with you.
Many of you have been praying for him and for a peaceful resolution for the lawsuit. The story of abuse by Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia was not just about Alex and his immediate family. The abuse extended to staff members and people in the church. As I said earlier, this reconciliation and restoration of relationships is a process, and it appears that Pastor Bob Grenier is making efforts to do that.
The understanding of “what happened” that Alex and his parents have now, will be different in a year after trust has been proven over time. But what I do see here is a sincere and heart-felt effort to seek understanding and to have humility from both Alex and his parents. Folks, this is a beautiful thing to behold. Let’s continue to pray for Alex and his family.
When Alex shared his note on Facebook, he also shared his father’s note with it:
To any and all. You are invited. Please come and rejoice with us on this special evening.
Note from Alex Grenier to His Facebook Friends
My parents and I have reconciled. This will be hard for some on both previous sides to understand, but it’s happened and is real. It’s a messy human situation that cannot be unraveled perfectly and what I’m learning about Reconciliation and Forgiveness is that it can’t be and doesn’t have to be. I know I did a lot of things wrong, for which I’m sorry and apologized and received forgiveness and I forgive for the beefs I had.
We were raised “old school” by our Marine father who saw combat in the jungles of Vietnam. He was raised “old school” by his dad before him and repeated the same mistakes. Times are different now, we as parents and as a society have learned from past mistakes and we do things much differently today. He has apologized to me and I forgive him.
Having said that, I want to correct the record on the two other major issues: CC Visalia was investigated for financial issues and came out clean and actually received a good report from Detective Haney who specializes in those issues. Some of the info I had received was incomplete, some lacked context, some was true but differing opinions of how money should be spent and some info was recanted by others and false.
The most serious issue was my brother’s molest accusation. He has fully recanted that accusation and I now believe the recantation after getting much more of that story. Our dad forgave him for that claim, that is remarkable. My parents love him and have acted like good parents in helping him after-the-fact. He was not bought-off as was cynically speculated by yours truly, for which I apologize for jumping to that overly-jaded conclusion.
I spent a few days with my parents recently, the long battle has taken quite a toll on them. It actually breaks my heart now and I have a lot of regret for going after them as I did. I wanted “justice!” and they suffered way way too much and for some major things they didn’t do.
My dad, Bob Grenier, is reaching out to some of you to extend an olive branch to make peace as he offended you over the years when he was your pastor at CCV. He is sincere. He walks with a limp now from this long tough battle, as I do. He is an old man who God has humbled as God has humbled me. He wants peace and no more wars. I am of the same heart and mind. Those of you who were blogging against him, I know you were angry and hurt, as I was at one time. Forgiveness is righteous and good for the soul.
Not every relationship has to be reconciled, but I now understand the importance to Forgive quickly and to Repent quicker. Anger, unforgiveness, negativity only breeds more of the same. It took me down a terrible path. I repent of that.
May we forgive as we all require much forgiveness. We are all the Prodigal, we are all the Pharisee, we are all the Tax Collector, we are all the Roman soldier driving the spike into the hands of Jesus. We are all the victims and we are all the perps. Peace, Love, Mercy, Forgiveness and Reconciliation….that is the heart of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Alex Grenier
Spiritual Sounding Board 
This is just the kind of ending God would have for us that have conflict. PTL!
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I cannot think of a better resolution to this long and painful ordeal for all concerned. Praise God for a far better outcome than many, if not all of us, ever thought was possible. Now may trust be rebuilt, wounds healed, and love rekindled and made stronger over time and by God’s amazing grace!
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thanks for reporting this, JA 🙂
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JA
This brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for this update.
As you know I was a part of that blog for many years, and my prayer was always for reconciliation. I am thankful Gid has done this work that only He can do.
Alex, if you are reading this, I am so happy for you. I prayed fervently for you and for your mom especially because her heart must have been torn. Peace is a beautiful thing. I am sure it is wonderful they can now spend time with grandma.
My mom died last year, and I held onto much resentment in my life because I did not get the love I thought I deserved.. She didn’t have it in her..It affected my behavior towards her. I am sorry we could not reconcile that while she was alive. At least she received the Lord 4 days before death.
As you shared, you never know what our parents went through..that affects how they raise us. It is not easy being a parent. I understand that now. I am looking forward to what is in store for you spiritually, and how the Lord will use your wonderful eloquent voice.
Writing with tears… Thank you Lord for your answer to prayer.
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Sorry God ( not Gid)
I know everyone knew that but I still needed to correct 🙂
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PS JA
I too, like yourself, was concerned about Alex.
We all will have to wrestle with God in some way or another.
I believe it is part of the process to get us where He needs us to be.
The boil needs to explode before it heals.
It’s a naturally process.
Alex’s blog was a place to work a lot of that out.
So is yours! And it’s wonderful we now have the technology to do this.
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Hannah and J.A. Would hope/trust you would leave ALL articles posted the work involved to see the end result of Restoration and Reconciliation and FORGIVENESS. NOT glorying in this this but; it makes me weep thinking about but the exchange of Alex wanting accountability and Chuck Smith Sr. response was something dealt with for over 30 years and Alex was only one case OF SO MANY. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY not just C.S. Sr., but SO MANY will NOT clean up and hold accountable ALL abuses in the church? Remember some Pastor used to say the Church was the Hospital (wished had that sermon). It has to be about PEOPLE not money/numbers; but HEALTHY PEOPLE (sheep); instead of being part of the victimization and gaping wounds. When struggled with items like this it forced me to study verses: Why & Who did Jesus come for? Healing the Broken Hearted: 100 Bible Verses about Healing A Broken Heart – OpenBible.infowww.openbible.info/topics/healing_a_broken_heart.
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Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel.
He didn’t come to start a building.
You, like I was taught that the ” sheep” are the individuals in the ” church”.
That’s not the case.
Since I began studying the scriptures properly, only recently, I now understand otherwise.
When Jesus was talking about sheep in the gospels, he was never speaking about the church since the ” mystery” had not yet been revealed while he was alive.
If you are interested in future study of this, I can supply some resources.
It really helped me come to terms with gray areas.
I did realize that during my years at CC , I really didn’t have a grasp of who and what the “church” was.
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“May we forgive as we all require much forgiveness. We are all the Prodigal, we are all the Pharisee, we are all the Tax Collector, we are all the Roman soldier driving the spike into the hands of Jesus. We are all the victims and we are all the perps. ”
I hope he rethinks this. If we are all victims and perps then there are no victims and perps. We are all the same. CJ taught this.
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Thankful for this reconciliation. Praying that it continues with all who were harmed.
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Lydia,
I was thinking the same thing. He should have chosen his words better there; it’s a slippery slope that one.
It may just supply someone, somewhere, with an excuse in the future.
Do you remember that piece of wrong thinking that was posted by all and sundry lowly worms everywhere a while ago? That we were all “Barabbas” or something? That was embarrassing.
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The only thing many people will learn from this is to not immediately believe victims. His brother lied about molestation? Oh boy, every pastor in the US is going to highlight that one. A lot of people were taken on years of a wild ride… for lies? And the reconciliation becomes a PR message with glossy merchandising?
I just now think Calvary Chapels are more cultish than I might have imagined.
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I am in awe of God’s work of reconciliation in Alex’s family, and I look forward to hearing their testimony at the 2/19 special service. I am bothered though by the CC PR feel, and I don’t really care to hear 7 other guys and a Christian band. It’s on a Sunday night at 6:30, so how are they going to fit in everyone? For those who have also been hurt by CC and/or deeply invested through hours and HOURS reading his blog over the last 10 years, giving financially, praying, etc., there are really only 3 people that I want to hear from (well, the other boys too).
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Lurking loo
I agree with you in some respects.
To make an event out of this bothers me.
None of us know what the agreement was between the parties involved for the case to be dropped.
Thers always going to be the problem with the ” Moses Model”, and that’s not going away.
I think you were around CCA when there was much conversation on the subject.
I’m just rejoicing that God answered prayers for reconciliation for Alex and his family.
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Lydia00
I was told CC was a cult when I was in awe of it.
I had to get out to realize it.
I can share many stories to support this.
The lie bothers me because I think it fueled the rage with Alex..but I think certain things should be left to the privacy of the family.. I am just so happy for them that God has worked this out.
I’m sure the message will be recorded.
So perhaps this will be a wonderful time of repentance and restoration for all involved.
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I never assume “God” worked things out when people make that claim. And am leary of pastors who claim something is a move of the Holy Spirit such as Newham keeps repeating.
And I see no reason to hold a church gala when there are plenty of others who had spiritual abuse problems with BG. I take that back, I do see a reason and it’s not good. Especially for some. . I do think Christians are some of the most naive people out there.
Either the accusations were true or not. Now people are told God is in it and to move along– Here is what I do know. Dealing with manipulators, deceivers in celebrity Christendom is exhausting. It is a world of smoke and mirrors. And it’s more banal than people can imagine.
I think dropping the lawsuit was fine. I get that. I think finding a way to have a relationship with his aging parents is great.
What I object to is the message that somehow it was all a big misunderstanding. None of it true? That is now the message.. So will this case be brought up as an example on every pastor blog? Yes. Will it be referred to in every statute of limitations hearing? Yes. There are bigger ramifications here. For victims. And I don’t think the holy Spirit had a thing to do with it. I think it is very dangerous to attribute such things so cavilerly to God. I think that is exactly what taking His Name in vain means.
I would rather see him quietly drop the lawsuit, take down his blog and keep it private.i don’t believe in instant metanoia.and certainly not a gala celebration. Frankly, someone lied.
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Lydia – I like your statement, “I would rather see him quietly drop the lawsuit, take down his blog and keep it private.i don’t believe in instant metanoia.and certainly not a gala celebration. Frankly, someone lied.”
To me, it takes more time than this to really look at hurts that have been there for decades, discuss the issues with those involved, and understand what and why things happened, why lies were said, and then finally let it all go with forgiveness, etc. I would have rather heard Alex say something like, the lawsuit has been dropped and we are talking and working out our problems in private and things are going better and leave it at that and go away into the sunset. I am really GLAD for him that the lawsuit has been dropped!!, but I don’t buy this kind of ‘religious’ talk on ‘forgiveness and repenting’, etc. For individuals Bob wants to extend an olive branch to, he could instead apologize to them in private and not make it a ‘public’ event. I also am not going to assume this is God working things out or a move of the Holy Spirit, when it might not be and only God knows. But again I am glad the lawsuit was dropped! Congrats Alex on that achievement!
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Ann/Lydia,
If it were a move of the Holy Spirit they would announce a shut down of the entire CC corporation and return every dollar to members of the CC Kingdom
Having a big chest bump fest screams, “nothing more to see here folks! Business-as-usual!”.
Then again, that’s because I don’t believe everything I see, read or hear.
These men love their platforms. Faces and names on websites and brochures.
Matthew 23.
Where’s Jesus?
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“If it were a move of the Holy Spirit they would announce a shut down of the entire CC corporation and return every dollar to members of the CC Kingdom”
Yes. In Such a rotten corrupted system it would take a major move of the Holy Spirit that the leaders chose not to ignore for a total shut down to happen. What is happening seems more like a PR move. I am sure Alex is mentally and emotionally exhausted. In those types of commercial authoritarian Christian worlds the choices are usually stark. Walk away from them totally or acquiesce. I am familiar. While my heart is torn and goes out to him, the method employed here for reconciliation is not good for spiritual abuse victims or molestation victims.
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Lydia
I think your ” God worked it out” comment was directed towards me, so I’ll respond.
I don’t speak Christianese, and don’t throw out comments such as ” the Lord laid it on my heart”, the Spirit told me”, etc.
As one who prayed daily for Alex and his family for over 6 years, I believe God answered those prayers. Perhaps the ” worked it out” is what is offensive to you.
That has nothing to do with the upcoming ” event”, and how I feel about that, coming from a place of spiritual abuse myself, and knowing all too well the shenanigans that can be involved in this ” event”. It’s typical.
And it has nothing to do with others who have been spiritually abused, as I and my family had been. I am extremely sensitive to this subject.
I just think we have to not lump this all together, wait it out.
I’m laid up with an injury, so next week I really won’t have much time to keep up with the posts.
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Ps..Lydia
Your last post.
I used to be in a women’s group where we prayed every week for the church.
I prayed out loud for God to remove those in leadership that the enemy was using.
The ladies didn’t like that.
I would venture to say they hated me.
I tried to bring Jesus I to every event in the school.
When I bought Christian DVDs to donate for the kids for events, the lady leaders would throw them on the ground, telling me this is what the kids would do with them. She said ” they get this ( Jesus) all week. She wanted Starbucks cards..
My daughter was bullied and there were too many issues to post…about the suffering I believed I needed to endure, to be there as a watchman.
I’m not trying to prove to you I understand abuse, I endured.
And no one wanted more than I to see that place fall apart.
It got the the point where we left, and then a few years later the Pastors sin was exposed and every man that hurt our family was gone.
I’d say that was a move of the Spirit.
As long as you still have people willing to compromise, and people who are not true converts in charge, and those that profess Christ are still going, still giving, still trying to get their kids to have a career there ( because they have invested so much for this), God will leave them to their vomit. I have a business where I see these people, and I have to say, they are blind. You can’t get through to them.
I call it the ” daze”.
I’m typing with one finger which is exhausting my shoulder, so I’ll end with this.
I’m kind of done with the kind of stuff I posted, because I had years to get it out of my system on Alex’s blog.
We know the ending to the story’s , and we know there is a great apostasy.
The problem isn’t what God can do. Or what he should do.
He can make everyone believe He is Messiah, he can end all suffering in this world.
That’s not how he operates.
The problem isn’t God.
The problem is with us.
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Thank-you for posting this Julie Anne. It is so wonderful to read good news for a change and how God, the Holy Spirit, is still stirring the hearts and minds of people to do the right thing. And I am warmed by the fact that you are a good friend to Alex and were there for him when life was tough. This is exactly what the fellowship of the saints should look like and your example gives me hope. Keep serving Him!
And Hannah,
Thank-you for praying for Alex. There is such a drought within the visible church concerning prayer pertaining to those who are hurting and suffering. I appreciate your testimony as well. As iron sharpens iron, praying for your healing as well. You too, have helped in restoring my hope in Him. God be with you.
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Hannah, Nothing was directed at you. I promise. I am the type who would be direct and tell you. I don’t do passive aggressiveness.
We simply have different views. I could tell you stories of passionately praying for something constantly that is good yet a really bad -bad thing happening in respect to what I was praying about. How would we attribute something like that? God? Satan? Some blame the person praying even if they are a victim of abuse.
I do not believe we can leave the human equation out of Events. I don’t believe God forces outcomes.
It is perfectly OK if we disagree. Many moons ago I did a study on Torah specifically the law and how the Jews in Antiquity would have understood them in relation to their culture. I was astonished to learn that the Jews had a totally different interpretation of ‘taking the Lord’s name in vain’. Most of us were taught that it was about swearing. But ancient Jews understood it as being very careful not to attribute things to God that may not be from Him. We just don’t know –sometimes. I believe this is one of those cases after reading Alex’s message and seeing the reconciliation stage event.
That is where I was coming from. I have absolutely no right to tell you What You Must Believe or do or even shame you for it. When I saw the reconciliation stage production that is being put on by CC my radar went off big time. I am no stranger to these things in megas. I do believe it is over the the top and could be an even bigger potential problem down the road.
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Lydia
I’m not so sure what you believe we have different views about.
I don’t know you at all, except for a few posts I’ve read.
I would hardly say I know your views.
My view is that God in His sovereignty is in total control of all things, yet we are also responsible for our part in that.
That may seem simplistic, but there’s not enough time in one post to express this properly.
I would ask you, since I don’t want to abruptly end dialogue, what you believe we disagree about. That would better direct my conversation with you.
I just don’t want to be misunderstood. 🙂
In my 60 years, 20 of them being a believer, I have personally prayed for many things.
Some things we pray for are not in our time frame.
Sometimes we suffer for what God needs to do in someone else’s life..breaking them so they submit to Him in their lives.
Sometimes it’s not fair..life isn’t fair.
And many of us have been hurt by others who we have prayed for for years. They don’t seem to change, and they continue to hurt us.
It is their choice of rejecting Gods will for their own lives, and it affects ours.
Some have to make the choice of continuing to pray and wait, or move on.
Each person has to decide for themselves. There is definitely suffering in this life.
Thankfully, one day, God will wash away all the tears. And sin will not be an issue.
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Katy
Thanks for your kind words 🙂
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“My view is that God in His sovereignty is in total control of all things, yet we are also responsible for our part in that.
That may seem simplistic, but there’s not enough time in one post to express this properly.”
I am sensing a lot of cognitive dissonance in your entire comment. On one hand, God is in total control, on the other, He isn’t in control of humans. He is in total control but we are responsible. That is cognitive dissonance.
I believe God created a world where it rains and both good / bad people benefit. He created us with brains to cure disease on both good and bad people. Some believe, as Alex implied, that we are all the same –both perp and victim.
I suspect we view Sovereignty differently. I don’t view God as not being Sovereign over His Sovereignty. IOW, as Jesus Christ, God in the Flesh, He did not seek to “control” people. He did conquer death for those who repent and trust. I believe He gave us the tools and we are to reflect Him back out to the world. We make the choices. And it’s not easy.
It is practically considered heresy to suggest such concerning God and control, I know. I think we approach it backwards thinking we are to proclaim God’s Sovereignty or we are man centered. I believe God IS man centered. :o) I think Jesus Christ proved that. I just have a different view concerning what we attribute to God or as a move of the holy Spirit. In my view, it would look quite differently.
I feel like a party pooper so will leave it here. :o)
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I am grateful for this exchange because I am wrestling with how to view this “celebration”. God bless all of you for being brave enough to comment. Even in the differing views, I am learning. So many people have suffered while at CC’s. I can’t help wondering about them.
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Lydia wrote:
“I was astonished to learn that the Jews had a totally different interpretation of ‘taking the Lord’s name in vain’. Most of us were taught that it was about swearing. But ancient Jews understood it as being very careful not to attribute things to God that may not be from Him.”
I hear you. Here are some examples, from the March ’16 resignation announcement of Bob Caldwell from Calvary Chapel Boise:
It has become undeniably clear God is changing my job description. To fulfill what He has put before me, I have to accept that this change has come sooner than I had hoped….
Although the thought of this change is difficult for me, it is also easy because it’s clear that it is God’s time and God’s will. I’m convinced of this for several reasons. To begin with, it is obvious some sort of transition is inevitable. That being said, several things have come together to confirm the time is now. God has answered these specific prayers I know were needed for this to happen….
It would be very poor timing to do this if I didn’t believe we were being prepared by God for a fresh work of His Spirit….
God has written three things upon our hearts that we must do during this next chapter of our lives….
To take all that the last 35 years have taught us and fulfill God’s new call to extend the work of our church family much more aggressively into international opportunities that lay before us. This will include a much more active role in India, our two film projects, and their accompanying books. This has proven impossible while also fulfilling my role as your Senior Pastor.
So, in many and various ways he was attributing his move on from pastoring to God. But according to Michael Newnham there just might have been an additional reason not from God, which Caldwell forgot to mention.
http://michaelnewnham.com/?p=27590
I mention this example because Alex had a positive interaction with him which was reported here. It seemed to me at the time that Bob was one of the good guys. But in other ways, he might not have been.
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I think when you start to see stories like this, where something has changed or someone has recanted or is saying they lied or what have you, it makes you pull back on the whole thing. It doesn’t feel like celebration time, it feels like question time. I think that’s a natural response.
Saying this in general, because I haven’t followed this case closely at all.
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I think it’s important to note that while there have been many people involved, this particular celebration is about Alex and his parents. There are other ongoing issues that still complicate this case, but again, for Alex and his parents, this is a new and beautiful reconciliation. His kids haven’t seen their grandparents in quite some time. There will be rejoicing.
As I also implied in the article, this is not done. This is a work in progress. I’m sure this celebratory mood doesn’t feel all that great to people with whom there has not been reconciliation. That is understandable. I’m hoping that this is the first step of many and that all unresolved conflicts can be healed.
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JA
I agree. It broke my heart that his kids could not see his grandmother.
It is beautiful, and God was in it.
He reconciled us back to Himself and He heals the brokenhearted.
He does the unimaginable. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
His mercies are new every day.
Great is thy faithfulness!
One day, I will share how He orchestrated my mothers salvation 4 days before she died.
Anne Graham Lotz has a message you can now see on Youtube called ” Just give me Jesus”. It is very inspiring!
Lets continue to pry for Alex and His family, and for God to orchestrate this upcoming event.
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I think that probably everyone who appreciated the Calvary Chapel Abuse blog would find this news great that the lawsuit is dropped and Alex and his family are reconciling, especially since grand kids are involved too! The celebration seems to me to be about more than just a celebration about Alex and his family reconciling. It is going to be a ‘night of ministry’ held at a Calvary Chapel plus a bunch of CC speakers coming to speak. It reads to me that this will be a night also about reconciling to this and other CC’s too. For me that is alarming. Calvary Chapel Abuse had many visitors over the years for good reasons other than Alex’s issues, and there were many who found help by being able to talk about their negative experiences with their particular Calvary Chapel. So I will have to ‘celebrate’ this event outside the doors, as I would never risk subjecting myself to their influence again. I will, as the saying goes, pass on the cool aide.
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That’s true, too, Ann. As Alex had always said, CC is a franchise. I’m rejoicing with Alex on the restored relationship with his parents. If there is something beyond that, I will refrain from commenting.
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We are all the victims and we are all the perps
This is a false message. It’s called sin-leveling and abusive churches use this method of thinking to ignore the pain of the victim and to give a pass to the abuser. Dear Christians, do not fall for this false view. Have we learned nothing from all the sexual abuse cases that have been exposed both in the RCC and in Protestant churches?
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JA, I know you mean well in posting about this reconciliation. With that said, for me something about this sudden reconciliation is disturbing. Was Alex and Paul Grenier both lying the entire time about their abuse? If so, then perhaps they need some serious counseling. On the other hand, did Bob Grenier do what both Alex and Paul claimed he did to them regarding their abuse? If so, then did Bob Grenier repent of his wicked behavior to both of these men? It seems like something is being swept under the rug here. Anyway, The Wartburg Watch reported on this lawsuit and Dee spoke with both Alex and Paul Grenier in which she stated I became convinced of the veracity of their allegations of childhood abuse.” Was Dee fooled as well? Something doesn’t add up here. As Lydia stated up thread, *Frankly, someone lied. Exactly. Who is lying and why is now everything rosy and forgiven? As I said, something just doesn’t add up. And now, just like Lydia, I feel like a party pooper. Sorry, but I’m so skeptical when it comes to Christians and their very public acts of piety accompanied with fanfare.
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Darlene, Lydia, and others: I’m another party pooper. Something is wrong with this whole picture. Con-ven-ient. For someone. But, whoever is lying and covering up will have to live with it. So, on to more important things.
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I spent a good deal of time, years I think, commenting on Alex’s blog. So
I don’t want to hurt Alex by what I’m about to say because I really care for him and am hoping this all is genuine for his sake and he gets all God’s best in this situation.
Forgive me if I’m faithless in this situation. But something just seems like it is missing here.
I get the fact that Alex’s dad raised him different than the next generation. Most of our parents did. I was abused growing up in the 60s and 70s. And I chose not to abuse my kids and forgave my mother for her faults as a parent. All of that – I get. What I don’t see, in this celebration, however, is whether Pastor Bob G. is getting help for his domestic violence toward his wife so he will stop abusing her and so he won’t abuse his grandchildren? Is he getting the counseling and accountability he needs to be a humble servant as a pastor? Did he really apologize to Alex for his faults as a parent. If he did- that helps in the reconciliation process. We can’t know all the details. But it almost seems to me like it was Alex made to feel remorse and apologetic. But was his father remorseful or just making excuses? And what of his brother’s charges of molestation? Are we now to believe they never happened because he recanted? So, what, he made the entire episode up? Was is a false memory? The celebration is wonderful but almost feels to me like it is overkill. But since I am not closely involved these are just my impressions.
I’m still wishing Alex the best and I believe I speak for all those who followed Alex’s blog in saying we still love Alex, in Christ. I’ll be praying this is indeed all genuine on Pastor Bob’s part.
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Here’s my problem with this whole “reconciliation” thing. Let’s assume everything Alex says is true, etc.
Remember that time when Alex caught Chuck Smith live on the radio and Smith admitted that Bob had seen him about hitting Alex? That was what made me believe Alex. Chuck knew that hitting Alex was wrong. The fact that Bob went to confess to Chuck tells me even he knew it was wrong.
So why is Bob still a pastor? They are supposed to be above reproach. It was child abuse back then, and it still is now. Bob knew it. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have had anything to confess to Chuck Smith. Right? Pastors are supposed to be an example. If Bob wasn’t a good example to his own family, then how can he possibly ever preach a sermon on the family, on loving your wife and kids? How can he possibly watch over the family of God when he used overbearing, Marine-style corporal discipline on his own family and knew it was wrong to do so?
He really needs to step down as pastor, just because of that.
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I am happy for Alex, although I still fear for him.
Beyond that, if I am following this correctly, Bob Grenier is “humbly” using an event of forgiveness and reconciliation-in-progress to market his brand? To draw crowds. Sick.
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Glad there has been reconcilliation. But I have been the victim of Alex’s vitriolic pen. I can’t help but think of this parable:
Once there was a foolish woman in a small village, who spread some gossip about another woman in the village. Before long the foolish woman began to feel remorse about what she had done so she went to the wise man of the village to ask him what she could do to make things right. The wise man listened carefully to her story, thought for a moment, and then told her to go to the market and buy a chicken. On the way home from the market she was to pluck that chicken letting the feathers fall along the path. The next day she was to come back and see the wise man again.
The foolish woman did as the wise man suggested. She bought a chicken and plucked it on the way home. When she came to him the next day she told him that she had done what he asked her to do. The wise man said to her, “Now, I want you to go home today by the same road you took yesterday, and pick up every single feather you dropped along the path.” The woman was distraught, and protested that there was absolutely no way she could find and pick up all those feathers. The wind would have surely blown them everywhere!
The wise man quietly responded, “You are correct…and you see, just as you can never retrieve all those feathers, there is no way you can ever restore the reputation of the woman whom you harmed with your words.”
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Alex spoke and shared the reconciliation video at the Calvary Chapel Association Pastors Conference this week. Do you know where I can see a video of his talk and the reconciliation one? Thank you.
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I’ll see if I can find it and post it, Lurkie Loo.
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Thank you! It was Monday afternoon, according to the schedule. I looked around a little but didn’t see anything specific to that.
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Will Alex apologize personally to pastors like me who he smeared?
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Have you gone to him personally to ask him, Former cc pastor?
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No. I think it’s his responsibility to come to me.
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Yes, as long as you told him you were offended. He can’t be a mind reader.
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O…he knows. He intentionally went after me and libeled me.
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I’m a little confused by the whole ‘There was abuse’ vs. ‘My kids haven’t seen their grandparents’ disconnect. I wouldn’t be in a rush for my kids to see abusive grandparents, but that’s me. My guess is they came to some financial settlement with the CC kicking in the dough. Just make the bad publicity go away., And yes, SOMEONE WAS LYING!
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I am posting this to thank Alex for being my example of what not to do.
At the time I found Alex’s blog I was considering outing my abuser in a similar way. I chose not to after seeing the lawsuit he was facing. Alex repeatedly said “the truth will protect me” (paraphrasing) but I know enough about the inadequecies of the law not to buy that.
Instead- I told close family and friends and reported my abuser to the proper authorities. In the process I was able to help another victim.
So thank you Alex. I do honestly owe you and Im sorry you had to be the “example.”
Regarding some of the comments Ive seen by Alex scolding other possible victims for their inability to forgive- Again this just reaffirms my choice to leave Christianity. I was raised in CC too and Alex’s lectures on forgiveness are familiar. I feel so free and so happy I left that philosophy.
There has always been a strong current of masochism in CC and I think Alexs blog resonnated with me because I recognized it immediately.
Im concerned about him letting the abuse go through forgiveness. On one hand its a personal decision amd his right- on another it fails to acknowledge that Bob still preaches for a church that (to my knowledge) condones this “old school” child beating and wifely submission. I have coppies of their marriage materials which another former member gave me. If Ive been misled here- somone from CC please correct me.
Is Bob going to publicly speak out against wife and child battery or is this going to ignored?
At any rate- I hope Alex and his family the best.
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You’re beyond fckd in the head. There are real abuse victims out here, sexually abused victims that CC parishioners have suffered. And CC has backed up the perp over the child victim. Forgiveness is great for you but I pray your publicly flogged. Victims looked to you especially with Bob Coy and YOU victimized them again.
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One of the last comments I read on Alex’s blog CCA was that he was being sued for millions (I recall vaguely that it was 14 million?) by Bob G. and that it looked like Alex was going to lose, and he was experiencing horrible stress! Then the next time I stopped by CCA, the blog was ‘gone’. Like Tim who was experiencing great stress, Alex recanted his story also ….. well I’m glad the suits were dropped bringing much needed relief!
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Like Peter said – God’s love covers a multitude of sins — amazing love!
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Hi Ann,
I think there are still a lot of unanswered questions. But I am grateful that Alex is happy and his relationship with his parents has been restored.
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I am disturbed by this whole thing. It seems like a cover up to me and I am not buying it at all. I do believe Alex and think he is being worn down. Something is just not right here. Just my observation.
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I agree with Denise. It seemed so staged. Like a publicity stunt. I wonder why Calvary Chapel Magazine took such an interest in this story and wanted it so public after they were trying their hardest to ignore it for so many years? Is the Grenier family reconciled? Appearances are often not what they seem.
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It would be nice to have a follow up story on how the reconciliation is working out for the family.
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Suzette: I think a follow-up story on Bob and Gayle Grenier and the reconciliation of their family would be wonderful. I am sure there are many of us who would like to know what things are like for their family a year or so after this all so suddenly took place. I’m curious. Do you know how their children and grandchildren are doing? How is the church? Has Bob mended fences with anyone else that he had a falling out with over the years? How is Gayle? I don’t remember reading or hearing much of what she had to say.
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Carl:
Do you think the reconciliation was staged?
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I have connected with a couple of people who have shared their stories with me from Bob’s church, and that is one issue that has still not been addressed.
I have not been in touch with Alex since just after the reconciliation. I have, however, received quite a few e-mails from different members of the family who have wanted me to remove any posts related to Bob. I have not done so. It is a historical record of what happened. If it is a historical record of misunderstanding, then so be it.
I would still like to see resolution between Bob and the others who felt bullied by his behavior.
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Suzette, I do not think it was staged. Alex was emotionally spent and wanted to be done. I know his heart was always sad about the strained relationship between he and his mom – which meant his kids didn’t have a relationship with their grandmother. That weighed heavily on his heart during the whole process.
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Suzette,
One thing that is always telling is what is on the court docket with the Grenier’s in Tulare County.
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Suzette:
I do think Julie Anne was right to keep a historical record of the posts since many of them involve behavior that has not been addressed. From the information I know, it was staged and I can confirm that at least on Bob’s end of things. I can’t say the same for Alex. It was recently made aware to me as well that this family is anything but reconciled. And Bob Grenier is still manipulating, bullying, and hurting people in and out of the Church with nobody willing to hold him accountable. There is a lot more to this story than meets the eye if you know any members of their family. Even those that might think they know them best would be shocked at what a complete farce most everything about Bob and Gayle’s lives. It was stated to me firsthand from one of his children that Bob has once again crossed such a line with 2 of his children. Enough so that I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the catalyst for the whole story coming out. And ends up back in Court. I would follow the money trail with Bob and Gayle. A former member of their Church and close to their inner circle verified that Bob and Gayle spent nearly $40k on the printing of the magazines and video about the reconciliation. Without approval from their Board. And got the approval after the fact. Bob also had full editorial control over the article. Which is mysteriously nowhere to be found online. I would keep asking questions.
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Carl
That is all correct! Such a mess.
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Still cynical and skeptical of Calvary Chapels as so much has not been dealt with adequately. The power grab that ensued after Chuck’s passing left me sick to my stomach about this 501(c)(3) organization– they claim that God doesn’t run the church like a business, then why are they utilizing the tax system in subjectivity to being dictated to by the federal government? Makes zero sense to me other than the pastor thinking he’s a CEO of his own kingdom/church in which he can do no wrong and makes all of the decisions (good or bad) with ZERO accountability to anyone other than God, yet others are supposed to sumbit to his authority as the senior pastor? CORRUPT SYSTEM is all I can see here, especially given the history of Calvary Chapel’s dealings with their radio stations, Greg Laurie’s Harvest Crusades, the commune and other ventures. It’s a sick history of men creating their man kingdoms and being nepotistic, self-promoting of their own materials, etc., all the while telling congregants they shouldn’t seek self-promotion or seek positions of power — I understand that now to mean these men want those positions of authority for themselves over others with none tempting to challenge them! STAY AWAY from this organization– I’ve experienced far too much heartbreak and misdirection in life as compared with the churches I grew up in when I was younger, long before Calvary Chapel ever came into the picture– they’re a spoiled rotten bunch!!!!!! AG
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