by Brad Sargent
ExPastors.com writers Greg Atkinson and Bo Lane published several significant articles about Tullian Tchividjian, and one article by him, in September and October 2016. These unleashed waves of both criticism and of support, as it appeared Mr. Tchividjian had contacted them first and that he was positioning himself for a comeback into the public eye. His article was interpreted by Warren Throckmorton and others as preparing the way for his still-forthcoming book from David C Cook.
I have been writing an extensive case study on the situation of Tullian Tchividjian, and lessons in it about systems of accountability. In fact-checking and link-checking for that report, I discovered today (January 3, 2017) that two of the four relevant articles at ExPastors.com had been removed from their site – one by Bo Lane and the other by Tullian Tchividjian. Two other articles by Greg Atkinson had been edited without any notice or update that I could find, that he had made edits to the pieces. Also, a search on the ExPastors.com site for “Tullian Tchividjian” yielded no results.
Because there is no notice about removing/editing posts, we don’t know exactly when it happened, or why. Unfortunately, that leaves it up to readers to fill in gaps – and some may impute motives or hopes that are completely unreasonable and inaccurate. If ExPastors.com wants readers to trust them, it would help to know the reasoning behind these site alterations.
The situation is not at all what it was when ExPastors.com posted their articles in September and October. Now there is a very substantial amount of detail and documentation available, since four women have been reporting their experiences in posts from November and December of 2016. Friendship and loyalty to an individual should not blind us to the damage being done to the Body. Many former very public supporters have taken equally public steps with notices on social media to apologize for their previous defense of him, to state they have removed his podcasts or other resources from their site, etc.
So, personally, I hope the leaders at ExPastors.com have changed their position about support for Mr. Tchividjian, or at least for having provided him a platform. This isn’t about piling on Tullian Tchividjian when he’s down – it’s about drying up the sources of false support so he hopefully cannot continue his deceptive charades and seductive escapades that inflict immense harm on the Body of Christ.
Julie Anne Smith is in the process of contacting the ExPastors.com webmaster for comment. If there is an update from them, we will post it here.
UPDATE 01-10-2017. A week later and so far, Julie Anne has received no response of any kind from ExPastors.com.
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NOTES: Here are the links and some analysis. From “last capture” dates on the Wayback Machine for these posts, we can conclude that the deletions and edits likely took place sometime between November 13 and January 3. The following updates have been included in the Resource Bibliography on Systems Issues Related to the Tullian Tchividjian Situation.
* * * * * * *
September 23, 2016. ExPastors.com. God is Not Done with You Yet. And Neither Are We, by Bo Lane. [Link added 09-30-2016.] UPDATE 01-03-2017. This article is no longer on the ExPastors.com site. The last Wayback Machine internet archive capture of it was November 13, 2016.
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September 27, 2016. ExPastors.com. The Freedom in Losing it All, by Tullian Tchividjian. [Link added 09-30-2016.] UPDATE 01-03-2017. This article is no longer on the ExPastors.com site. The last Wayback Machine internet archive capture of it was October 22, 2016.
* * * * * * *
October 3, 2016. ExPastors.com. It’s Okay to Not Be Okay. This is a Safe Place. By Greg Atkinson. [Link added 11-25-2016.] UPDATE 01-03-2017. This article has been significantly edited to remove references to Tullian Tchividjian and other celebrity pastors who have had additional evidence come to light in the past few months. The only Wayback Machine internet archive capture of the original version is from November 13, 2016.
Here are some key paragraphs from the original (October 3, 2016) and the current (January 3, 2017) versions, for comparison. Boldfaced red print = removed. Boldface green print = edited.
ORIGINAL VERSION/October 3, 2016. Since this is the first article we’ve posted since we posted Tullian Tchividjian’s article – let me say up front. This is a safe place! We didn’t share a piece from Tullian because we believe he has “arrived” or “is ready to re-enter ministry.” None of us know that. That’s between God and Tullian.
The reason we posted it is because we knew it would resonate with the majority of our readers, AND might just put words to something that someone has been dying to say. If you want to hear more of my personal reason for posting the article, go here to read about it on my personal blog.
We reach all kinds of pastors and ex-pastors: broken, hurt, wounded, mad, angry at God, angry at the Church, confused, on the verge of suicide (like Tullian Tchividjian shared), in transition, now in lay leadership, pastors who have burned out and are ready to quit (like Pete Wilson), pastors who resigned and now serve another church (like Mark Driscoll), pastors who have resigned and now work a job outside the local church, pastors who were fired (like Perry Noble), pastors who were laid off due to finances or circumstances out of their control – all kinds of pastors and church leaders. You may not agree or like them, but we love and care for them, and want God’s best for them. God is gracious. So, we are gracious.
As my friend Pete Wilson once said, “It’s okay not to be okay.” And I would add, “This is a safe place. All are welcome here. Whether you like us or not, trust us or not, love us or hate us, agree with us or not, or are just checking us out – we welcome you.
And like it or not, Tullian is the very definition of an ex-pastor. For every mega-church pastor, author and/or conference speaker that finds themselves in a similar situation, there are hundreds or thousands of ex-pastors and struggling pastors that are hurting and/or burned out – they just pastor smaller churches and don’t have the platform that Tullian has. And to you, my friend, I also say, “This is a safe place.”
CURRENT VERSION/January 3, 2017. Let me say up front. This is a safe place! We don’t share a piece from “celebrity pastors” or fallen pastors because we believe they have “arrived” or “are ready to re-enter ministry” or “are the norm and model for other pastors.” We share insightful pieces because we believe they relate to most in ministry, regardless of church size.
The reason we post sometimes controversial posts is because we feel it would resonate with the majority of our readers AND might just put words to something that someone has been dying to say.
We reach all kinds of pastors and ex-pastors: broken, hurt, wounded, mad, angry at God, angry at the Church, confused, on the verge of suicide, in transition, now in lay leadership, pastors who have burned out and are ready to quit, pastors who resigned and now serve another church, pastors who have resigned and now work a job outside the local church, pastors who were fired, pastors who were laid off due to finances or circumstances out of their control – all kinds of pastors and church leaders.
You may not agree or like them, but we love and care for them, and want God’s best for them. God is gracious. So, we are gracious.
As my friend Pete Wilson once said, “It’s okay not to be okay.” And I would add, “This is a safe place. All are welcome here. Whether you like us or not, trust us or not, love us or hate us, agree with us or not, or are just checking us out – we welcome you.
For every mega-church pastor, author and/or conference speaker that finds themselves in a horrible situation, there are hundreds or thousands of ex-pastors and struggling pastors that are hurting and/or burned out – they just pastor smaller churches and don’t have the platform that “celebrity pastors” have. And to you, my friend, I also say, “This is a safe place.”
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October 3, 2016. Greg Atkinson. What Grace Means to Me. By Greg Atkinson (the Executive Director of ExPastors.com). [Link added 11-25-2016.] This post indicates that Tullian Tchividjian made the first contact with ExPastors.com, and not the reverse. The distinction is important, if Mr. Tchividjian was attempting to set things in motion for a relaunch of his public platform – which the articles about him and by him in ExPastors.com contributed toward. QUOTE:
When Tullian Tchividjian reached out to us and I talked with him on the phone, I heard a man that had committed a sin (a serious sin before God and that is a hot-button for many people). I heard a man that had experienced brokenness, shame, loneliness, deep and dark sadness, and regret over what he had done to his family, and how he let his church and followers down.
As a matter of fact, Tullian was in such a dark place of sadness, regret, loneliness, anger, and frustration that he set out to take his life. He even wrote a suicide note that he shared in the piece we published. You can read it here.
Why did we share his piece? I shared today on ExPastors.com, we didn’t share it because he had “arrived,” or we thought he was “fully restored,” or that we believed he was “ready to re-enter ministry.” We don’t know any of that – that’s between him and God.
UPDATE 01-03-2017. This post by Greg Atkinson has been edited slightly from when it was originally posted (and captured on the Wayback Machine internet archive October 22, 2016). The following paragraph has been removed from the above article, without notice of editing. Boldfaced red print = removed.
Why did we share his piece? I shared today on ExPastors.com, we didn’t share it because he had “arrived,” or we thought he was “fully restored,” or that we believed he was “ready to re-enter ministry.” We don’t know any of that – that’s between him and God.
* * * * * * *
Edited for format and completeness of quotes. 01-03-2017.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
How interesting that they removed this, because after reading their site it seems doubly true! They are very supportive of ‘moral failure’ and getting those people back into ministry. I suspect the reason for the deletions is simply that the whole episode is embarrassing.
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Brad
Great research.
Hmmm? Deleted Posts? What do they fear?
Seems Pete Wilson was also deleted from the original.
“As my friend Pete Wilson once said, “It’s okay not to be okay.”
New revision – Pete Wilson – Gone.
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“ExPastors.com Apparently Deleted “Other” Posts and References to…”
Pete Wilson.
NO explanation as far as I can tell.
ExPastors.com posted an interview by Ron Edmonson
With Pete Wilson, and his recent resignation from Cross Point Church.
Six, or so, Commenters at the time knew it was more than burn-out.
When Brandi Wilson, Pete Wilson’s Wife, Filed For Divorce.
That info, “there was more to the story than burn-out,” was moderated…
And NOT allowed to be published on their site.
Then – The interview, the post, went missing. 😦
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Ron Edmonson
The Interview with Pete Wilson Following His Recent …
http://www.expastors.com/the-interview-with-pete-wilson-following-his-recent-resignation/
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When you believe the lie you start to die…
When you live the lie…
You die slowly, day by day…
When you continue to live the lie…
Your family also begins to suffer and die…
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Here is the interview by Ron Edmonson with Pete Wilson, at Ron’s site.
http://www.ronedmondson.com/2016/10/interview-pete-wilson.html
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Great work Brad and Julie Anne!!!
Even though they’ll never admit this—sounds like they heard you LOUD AND CLEAR!!!
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ExPastors.com = Ministry of Truth.
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Brad
Ron Edmondson allowed the info about
When Brandi Wilson, Pete Wilson’s Wife, Filed For Divorce.
On his site.
Today he was informed his interview with Pete Wilson was removed.
His reply – “Interesting.”
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I then sent Ron info about Tullian Tchividjian from your post.
Ron
Seems the guys at ExPastors.com, are also removing
And editing posts by, and about “Tullian Tchividjian.”
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ExPastors.com Apparently has Deleted Posts and References to Tullian Tchividjian
https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2017/01/03/exp…
“…two of the four relevant articles at ExPastors.com had been removed from their site – one by Bo Lane and the other by Tullian Tchividjian. Two other articles by Greg Atkinson had been edited without any notice or update that I could find, that he had made edits to the pieces. Also, a search on the ExPastors.com site for “Tullian Tchividjian” yielded no results.”
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Can these guys at ExPastors.com, really help “Ex Pastors?”
By “deleting and editing posts” that prove to be ugly, NOT True?
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When you believe the lie you start to die…
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Hi A. Amos Love, thanks for your feedback.
Actually, the quote from Pete Wilson is still there in current version of the ExPastors.com post, “It’s Okay to Not Be Okay. This is a Safe Place.”
You may have gotten from the original version of my post that his quote had been deleted, but that’s likely because I had mistakenly failed to put two paragraphs in the “Current” version of that article. I caught that oversight shortly after I posted my article, and went back and edited it to complete the quote as noted at the bottom of the page.
I apologize for the confusion.
Brad
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As of now, He Never Existed.
doubleplusunperson.
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A search for Tullian on Key Life turns up nothing. It appears anything related to Tullian on their website has also been removed.
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Thanks for that information, Wanda59. Also, I just double-checked, and neither of two articles by Steve Brown about Tullian Tchividjian (“The Warrior is a Child” and “My Response to Recent Reports on Tullian”) is on Key Life’s website any longer. But both are available in the Wayback Machine, and those links are in the Resource Bibliography mentioned in the main article.
Not every article gets “captured” for the internet archive every time a website gets “crawled,” but I would note that the last capture for The Warrior is a Child (posted July 15, 2015) was March 29, 2016, and the last capture the “My Response …” article (posted March 21, 2016) was July 9, 2016.
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So, HUG, you probably already knew, but just in case not … George Orwell spent time in Burma/Myanmar as a young man in the police force, and the novel he was working on at the time of his death was another one set in Burma. The guy knew about authoritarianism from the inside out …
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When I see an article that I don’t want to get lost in the shuffle, sometimes I will screenshot it for my own records. I also like to add the link to Wayback Machine because, as Brad said, sometimes it doesn’t get copied. There is a place on the home page where you can post the link so it will be filed on the Wayback Machine.
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These guys continue to show why they are Ex-Pastors. We do not need folk like this leading churches IMO.
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Greg Atkinson and Bo Lane, why can’t you be forthright? Blows my mind, the number of shadowy things professional christians do.
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Excellent research. Oh, the guile that exists among the church elite… I am reminded of a verse:
Ecclesiastes 7:29
Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.”
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Just curious:
If it is God who gifts men with what they need to ‘pastor’, how could any think they’re in the position to be an ‘ex’ one?
Hmm.
A true pastor needs no title.
These guys aren’t ‘ex Pastors’. They’re ex kingdom building Lords.
They didn’t hit celebrity status with a million dollar ride.
Wondering if they still ‘pastor’ anyone on their own time, on their own property, for no salary?
Paul-Timothy style.
I wonder.
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I have no problem with a website for Ex-Pastors. When a pastor walks away due to burn out or a change in calling, I understand that. But to naively believe that every pastor who claims “burn out” is an innocent waif, is a bit too much. Especially celebrity pastors who have big followings and big salaries. Those are men who know how to play the game and work the system. (They usually set their own vacation schedule too.) They are like top level executives in corporate America.
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What exactly is the purpose of ex-pastors? Is it all about cleaning guys’ image up and getting them back into ministry?
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My grandparents were pastors in a charismatic denomination and for over 50 years dealt with just about every crisis , pressure and church upheaval known to man. Back in the day people just dealt with it and walked in integrity. Now we have this new generation of entited opportunists playing pastor who are totally clueless about REAL ministery to the body of Christ and aren’t very interested in it anyway. They are out to build a brand, a brand that lifts up themselves and fills seminars and sells a lot of books. The church has become a wealth creation device for a select few and the church at large is dumb enough to fall for it and worse throw money at it instead of paying forward the propagation of the gospel. We are paying for extravagant lifestyles, Lexus automobiles and fine dinning instead.
When that slows down upon the exposure of horrible sin or lack of consistent message , suddenly this new brand of preacher boy is in full crybaby mode and is experiencing serious “burn out ” whatever that is.
Most of these guys haven’t worked a 70-80 hour week in their life and don’t know what hard work is. Put their ass on a construction site or in a service van for a week running 12-15 calls a day and they wouldn’t make it three days.
I guarantee there are plenty of working mom’s and dads out there that would love to play the burnt out card and do they crybaby thing for a while. We just don’t because we live in the real world that you pathetic pastor boys are so insolated from. Maybe we should all claim burn out for a year and cease all giving to churches that allow these idiots to play pastor. Maybe leave these churches altogether.
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scott1253
You write…
“Maybe we should all claim burn out for a year
and cease all giving to churches that
allow these idiots to play pastor.
Maybe leave these churches altogether.”
Excellent idea… 😉
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One slight correction…
These are NOT churches, where people give God’s money.
What people give God’s money to today is a…
501 (c) 3, Non-Profit, Tax $ Deductible, Religious $ Corporation…
That the IRS calls church.
Should one of His Disciples call an IRS Corporation…
“The Church of God?”
These are businesses, IRS Corporations…
Run like a business. 😦
And they will only change, or go away…
When the MONEY stops flowing in.
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@AAmosLove:
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Link didn’t show, Trying again…
@AAmosLove:
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So why to the ‘heads’ of the visible religious industrial complex, love and build each other up, up, up, and up some more, making each other rather wealthy in the process due to using the LORD’S Name in vain for their jesus junk and great expounding words via book deals, conference speaking, and other mass media junk because as they say, ‘we know god better than anyone else,’ and yet………
when one of their own is caught up in sin and exposed, their names are deleted from their ‘books of religious life’ as if they never existed.
I will say it again, the religious industrial complex has replaced our One and Only True Head, Jesus Himself, the cornerstone of His Ekklesia, for a counterfeit in the name of this man or woman who secretly, or in many cases, not so secretly, desires the praise, worship and glory of man, which only belongs to Christ.
Jesus had no benefits, and yet our religious establishment is extremely demanding.
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Scott123
You are entirely right with your post.
Many Pastors are men who have a very privileged life for the most part.
Great salaries…great benefits..and with the internet you can get a sermon put together in half an hour. Many don’t even do counseling or serve the community-roll up their sleeves and do the servant “stuff”.
Being a Pastor is no longer a calling, it is a career.
Not to say there are not men who are serving the Lord sacrificially. We just don’t see it in our neck of the woods.
My issue with “church” is more theological. I can’t be under a man who believes Malachi or the OT tithe is for today. We are not Israel..we have not replaced Israel, and although the whole Bible is FOR us it is not ABOUT us. But I know this isn’t the site for this 🙂
Yes, very rarely do these men work as hard as some of us, who are expected to not only put in a 50 hour a week, But care for our family. attend church two days a week …and serve the Pastor by mowing his lawn on the weekends.. Yes, we attended one church where the Pastor had a free home, no job outside the church of about 100.. and felt that someone in the church should mow his lawn…because he had to prepare two messages a week! He forgets that Wednesday nights and Sunday are HIS work days and our free time to relax..Is that allowed? 🙂
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Help…
I’m-a-thinkin this lady might respond to a womans touch.
NOT sure but sounds like she has bought into this YRR stuff – submission.
I’m on a site commenting with a young wife, Nicki Ann…
http://thecripplegate.com/reasons-we-miss-church-but-may-not-need-to/
Of course Heb 13:17 is being used…
And I have challenged her – Lovingly, winsomely… 😉
Along with a bunch of others.
And they haven’t banned me – Yet. 😉
But she just replied with…
“One of the hardest things for a young wife to learn is that submission is about TRUSTING GOD to lead through her husband and not about faith in the man. God sovereignly works for her good, their good, and His glory even when the husband makes colossal errors in judgment or sins even in a grievous way. The same is true in the church.”
If you-all would take a look…
Just to see if you would like to respond.
Thanks ALL…
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A. Amos Love,
Yup, Cripplegate, a full-blown Calvinist job. I stopped by there years ago when it was basically an online publicity site for MacArthur and his buddies, and I felt unwelcome just reading through the comments. I read yours a few moments ago, A. Amos Love, and I loved ’em but I’m not on Disqus, and so I can’t leave comments, but what Nicki Ann needs is not a woman’s touch. What she needs is a touch from Jesus. She has been indoctrinated good and proper (Sorry, Mark, but tis true!). Sigh, have seen those types a hundred times over. A doormat waiting to happen. Soon.
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Re: Hebrews 13:17. Who is this verse talking to? Can we always use verses to apply to the “church”? Where do we see this means a husband??
I am rethinking much of what I was taught over the years.
In this verse, the Hebrew believers are being spoken to , and if we read this verse for what it is, it is telling them to obey the leadership of the Jerusalem church–Peter and the other disciples. That’s all.
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Hannah,
Hebrews 13:17 in the Greek is saying “be persuaded” by your leaders—meaning being persuadable instead of having a hard heart. One way to think about it—when Pastor Jeff preaches a sermon about putting evil out of the church—we should be persuaded by it.
King James commissioned the King James Bible to support his ideas of divine right of kings—so there’s verses in the King James that are twisted to support that philosophy which King James himself said was basically he could do no wrong—whatever he wanted to do was God’s will. That lead to a fight with Parliament during the reign of his son King Charles I over whether Parliament had any authority. Long story short—reading the Bible caused many Parliament members and even military leaders like Cromwell to challenge that idea and fight for balance of power in civil authority.
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Avid
I went over the thread and thought I missed something.
Who is Pastor Jeff?
Which are the verses that are twisted, so I can do further research.
What I meant was that sometimes, a verse is taken out of context…I thought in this instance it was. (Boston Lady’s comment)
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Hannah
Yes… Good for you… Me Too…
“I am rethinking much of what I was taught over the years.”
Jesus, God, Holy Spirit, will teach you ALL truth.
Jesus calls Himself “The “ONE” Teacher.” Mat 23:8.
I had to throw out much of what I believed to be truth.
Especially reseaching and trying to understand Heb 13:17. Oy Vey!!! 😉
Much of what I thought was Truth turned out to be…
Commandments of Men, Doctrines of Men, Tradtions of Men…
That – Make Void – Nullify – Cancel – The Word of God.
Mark 7:13
NLT – And so you “Cancel” the word of God
in order to hand down your own tradition.
KJV – Making the word of God of “None Effect” through your tradition…
ASV – “Making Void” the word of God by your tradition…
NIV – Thus you “Nullify” the word of God by your tradition…
Pesky little buggers – Tradtions of Man…
Jer 50:6
“My people” hath been “lost sheep:”
THEIR shepherds have caused them to go astray,
1 Pet 2:25
For ye were as sheep going astray;
BUT are now returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
{{{{{{ Jesus }}}}}}
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Hannah
If you enjoy doing your own research?
Spiritual Sounding Board has lots of info about Heb 13:17.
A verse used… err… mis-used a lot by “Abusive” pastor/leader/reverends.
Just Google – “Spiritual Sounding Board Hebrews 13:17 Abuse”
And lots of sites about “Heb 13:17, Abuse,” will pop-up.
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Hannah,
Sorry for the confusion.
I was referencing Pastor Jeff Crippen of ACFJ blog.
He did a great sermon on how the wisdom of God is the ability to recognize evil but evil tries to convince us that our discernment is wrong.
If you’re interested here’s the link.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonID=41016114582
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Just a couple of blogs, web-sites that discuss Heb 13:17….
1 – Here is an interesting read. A word study for “peitho” from Rick Saenz.
He lists all the scriptures using “pietho” = “Obey”
And as Avid Reader wrote… “be persuaded by”
http://drycreekchronicles.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/word-study-peitho/
2 – Here’s a number of blog post’s about Heb 13, submission, and leadership.
Alan Knox, a Baptist, sudying for a PhD at SEBTS. Baptist Seminary.
He is also into small groups with everyone participating.
Makes for an interesting read as you search these things out.
http://www.alanknox.net/?s=Hebrews+13%3A17&x=0&y=0
3 – “Do Elders Rule” – Dusty Owens
http://www.theexaminer.org/volume2/number4/rule.htm
4 – “Hebrews 13:17: Spiritual Authority’s Most Abused Verse”
Liberty For Captives – Stephen Smith
http://libertyforcaptives.com/2012/08/24/hebrews-1317-spiritual-authoritys-most-abused-verse/
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Hi Hannah,
I believe Avid Reader is referring to Pastor Jeff Crippen. See Julie Anne’s Blogroll for the website “A Cry For Justice”. He shares that blog with Barbara Roberts. Both are authors and real champions of helping the abused (at church and at home). Jeff’s excellent sermons are also posted on the web.
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Hi Hannah, google and YouTube ‘the great ecclesiastical conspiracy’ for insight into the King James Bible agenda.
It will encourage you to go through your bible with a marker and check out blue letter bible ‘tools’ so you can see if what they say is actually true.
It shocked me.
Now nothing shocks me.
It’s simple.
The Holy Spirit was given to those who believe for a good reason. To teach and guide and comfort. We don’t need to pay someone to teach us truth. We possess THE Truth within. Men want us to believe God wants us to strain over theology. God wants us to seek Him, love ALL and spread the good news of the Kingdom of God (preaching Christ dead, buried, raised and returning).
Keep it simple.
And keep the knees bent. 🙋
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Avid–I will listen to that link today. thanks 🙂
Song of Joy- Thank you. I have been on Barbara’s site– very good blog/support. There are a lot of hurting souls in the church…
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Salty,
I have recently been watching Les Feldick, and thought I now have greater understanding. The gospels for the Jews at the time,,,(kingdom), Paul’s letters to the “church”.(the mystery) It has opened my eyes.. helped me see God’s programs for different people at different times..When Jesus was alive, he was a Jewe living under the law-the message was for His people. Peter was to continue that message…until Paul..He was for the Gentiles..I have to say that in the last few months, all the gray areas have been answered through this new study..I don’t want to derail the discussion though! 😉
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Salty
What was the reference in Blue letter. I actually spent most my time there 20 years ago studying with David Guzik on that site. I studied most of the OT with him. I was at Calvary chapel at the time.
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Dear Hannah,
I was specifically referring to Nicki Ann’s answers/comments to Amos Love’s. The poor woman is in for the shock of her life, sooner or later. Guaranteed. There is one mediator between men (women) and God and that’s Jesus Christ. Please follow the link that Amos supplied and read what Nicki says and from where she comes. To her, authority is the be all and end all, no matter good or bad. Hebrews 13:7 simply refers to “remembering” your leaders (those who had brought them the gospel and teaching); many of them were martyred later on and the audience of this chapter were being reminded to imitate their faith.
Here it is again: http://thecripplegate.com/reasons-we-miss-church-but-may-not-need-to/
By the way, the reasons/excuses this site Cripplegate (in my opinion, a false gospel site nulli secundus), “attacks” as being wrong for not attending church, ALL points to one thing…CONTROL and man-made authority. And man-made authority and its poisonous control are very ugly things that lead to the existences of sites like SSB (thank goodness). You do know what I mean, and dear Nicki will find out if she does not see the flaws in her indoctrination and spiritual blindness. A. Amos Love is 100% correct in saying that that verse in Hebrew is “A verse used… err… mis-used a lot by “Abusive” pastor/leader/reverends.”
Yes, I’m off topic, I guess, but in the end, it all ties together. The fact that these hypocrites removed all references to Tullian tells me who or what they are bowing to. Clearly.
Hugs to you Hannah (what a beautiful name from the Bible. It means “favour (grace), not so?)
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Hannah,
I was, of course, talking of Hebrews 13:7 (not 17). Time for spectacles again, but regarding verse 17, just the following:
Is eldership an authority or a gift? Elders are to protect and oversee the BODY (not the church as an institution) by teaching correct doctrine and to warn about errors and false teachings. But do they have “authority”? Well, should one look at verse 127 (I got it right this time), I’d definitely go with those who say that “be persuaded by your leaders (see my previous comment) and surrender to the TRUTH they teach (not surrender to THEM, but surrender to the truth).
In a marriage, it’s NOT in the elders’ job description to teach wives/husbands the Word of God. Many wrongly believe only elders are “qualified” to do that. Utter nonsense. Wife and husband can do it together under CHRIST.
Hannah, sorry for taking on the wrong verse, but I do see a clear link between them anyway.
(I’m seeing the optometrist on Monday 🙂 )
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BTW, I commented on the Cripplegate article. It was posted and then removed. I thought I was polite. Now comments are closed.
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Hannah, that’s wonderful. I suspect most Christians never come to see the issue (if you could call it that) with reconciling the messages of Jesus and Paul.
When you start to see it you then need to backtrack to the OT and it’s pretty special.
God is good.
Regarding blue letter bible.
I was referring to using it when listening to or reading ‘the great ecclesiastical Conspiracy’ to validate the authors claims.
Naturally, I had to do this to check it for myself.
It’s an honest face palming moment when you finally ‘see’ the agenda.
Because many believers read modern versions… the ecclesiastical language is assumed to be correct and isn’t challenged.
Understanding the agenda from King James makes you go, “we’ll hang on a minute…” and you need to literally spend hours going through your bible.
Who has time for that, right?
The only people who search the Scriptures are those who love Christ.
Parking your bum in a seat to hear dopes peddle the words of Paul for profit is easier than seeking for yourself. 😉
Keep on keeping on! You are on the good path.
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Hannah,
That was a great question about the KJV. I’ll try to keep this really short and sweet.
Here’s two examples of how the KJV translators put their own opinion into the text:
Remember the story where Abraham makes Sarah lie and she ends up trapped in Abimelech’s harem until God intervenes and tells Abimelech “you are a dead man.” That scares him so much that he immediately lets Sarah go and pays 1,000 pieces of silver as compensation for her trouble.
In Gen 20:6, the KJV has Abimelech telling Sarah that Abraham is “to you a covering of the eyes….thus she was reproved.”
Now Abraham was NOT any type of covering—he was pushing her to sin in the first place!
Take another look at that verse in other translations and you see what Abimelech actually told Sarah was that he was paying the 1,000 pieces of silver to vindicate her:
“This will show everyone with you that I am sorry for what I did to you. You haven’t done anything wrong.” (NIRV)
“It is a sign of your innocence in the eyes of all who are with you, and before everyone you are vindicated.” (ESV)
Then look at Isaiah 3:12. This verse has been twisted to try to stop women from voting, holding office or having any type of leadership. The KJV says,
“As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.”
But the actual Hebrew NEVER said “women” or “children.”
Look again at Isaiah 3:12 (GNT) where God grieves that
“Moneylenders oppress my people, and their creditors cheat them. My people, your leaders are misleading you, so that you do not know which way to turn.”
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I realize I have a lot of catching up to do on this blog!
I spent almost 6 years on another one, and 4 on one before that…when I had much more time.. and basically got to know everyone and what they believed, so I am coming here like a fish out of water! I will get to all the comments directed towards me and I appreciate the response…since you aren’t always treated with patience out there in cyperspace!
Avid- I will definitely investigate the reference to “covering”.
I have most of the translations and have recently gone back to King James.
It has given me greater understanding of the dispensations.
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The site Expastors.com is down and no longer available. This is really curious.
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Hi Sean, it looks like it’s working again.
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