Tullian Tchividjian, Bob Coy, Church Leaders Response, Clergy Sex Abuse, Sexual Infidelity, Spiritual Abuse, Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale
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I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.
He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
John 10:11-15
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If you were a church leader, and your pastor was caught in sexual sin, how would you handle it? I was trying to think about this as it relates to the Tullian Tchividjian scandal.
Some church leaders may not be thinking clearly when it is discovered that their pastor has had a sexual relationship outside of marriage with another woman (congregant or otherwise). Now, perhaps their initial thoughts are that if the congregation finds out, they won’t be able to handle it, it’s too messy, and it will be a disruption. These justifications are valid. Maybe their thinking is that if those very few people who know about it can “take care of it,” then the church can move on as normal and everything will be fine. That seems legit So maybe their original intent of protecting the church body was initially a good one. But it doesn’t usually end well.
Another way leaders sometimes handle sexual sin is by addressing only some of the sexual sins. They minimize the extent of it, again, so as to not let it appear too messy. They are still covering up sin, and this is obviously not full disclosure. When congregants find out that it was far more than leaders disclose, this is problematic.
A comment came in last night from someone who is not the “other woman” or the wife of the pastor, or close friends of anyone involved. This comment came from a congregant. I suspect that this commenter was probably not very close with her pastor, but has been a regular attender, trusting her pastor(s) and church leaders to live according to Biblical qualifications of elders (1 Tim), and to appropriately shepherd the flock. That seems reasonable, right?
But what we will read below is how far reaching and destructive it is when, first, a pastor has a sexual relationship outside his marriage, and second, when church leaders fail to handle the sin appropriately.
When church leaders pay more attention to caring, covering up, and protecting their wayward pastor than the hurting sheep, the Body of Christ is harmed, sometimes spiritually and emotionally shattered. Is this what the Bible alludes to when the church becomes a sheep with no shepherd?
On a slightly different note, as I read comments from congregants about their pastors’ sexual sins, sometimes I read that a sinful and sexual relationship between a pastor and another woman is between them and God. This is not true.
The sexual sin of a pastor extends far beyond the bedroom and into the House of God.
It rocks people’s faith. It can makes people not trust any church leader. Some will quit church entirely. I hope Debbie’s story below will help to illustrate a common response from congregants whose pastors have failed morally.
I want to thank Debbie * for risking to share her personal story with us, especially after her story was not well received elsewhere. ~ja
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Debbie’s Personal Story: Betrayed and Wounded
Gonna take a chance and post this here. First time poster. Former Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church (CRPC) member. I was there when Tullian Tchividjian (TT) came in 2009. As a voting member, I took the word of our Pulpit Nominating Committee and voted to bring TT and merge his church with CRPC.
It didn’t take long for me to see something was wrong with TT. His sermons seemed, off, somehow. He had a bold yet somewhat (to me) arrogant presence in the pulpit. And then the trouble really began.
He disbanded CRPC’s contemporary worship team and installed his team from New City (his former church). Note that he did not bring the two together; he “fired” Coral Ridge’s group.
He made several other hurtful decisions and took some drastic actions. Just a few months into his tenure, many people were questioning the wisdom of bringing him in. We followed procedure to recall him. The voting process was NOT a secret ballot; I signed my name to the ballot when I cast it. I questioned this and was told, “well, that’s how we’re doing it.” I voted to recall him. By this time, the church was split. My dear, close friends of many years were split, some agreed with me and some sided with Tullian. It was a terrible, wrenching, hurtful time. After the vote, the recriminations began. They knew who had voted to oust him, and they proceeded with ruthless precision to cull the dissenters. I could give details of Tullian’s destruction, but I’ll withhold.
I left the church and after a year or two of not attending anywhere, ended up at Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale. Some time after I arrived, then-pastor Bob Coy was caught with his pants down and resigned. Another shocker. Initially the church was hush hush, then came clean. Bob left without any direct apology to the congregation. He left. We were told to pray for him. The church elders made a “Coy Family Care Plan” to support Bob. Later he divorced his wife.
So here I have experienced two devastating spiritual and moral betrayals by pastors. (Tullian’s brother, Stephan, is a pastor at Calvary Fort Lauderdale).
The Lord had me remain at Calvary, although I followed Tullian’s “career” from afar. I saw his falling out with The Gospel Coalition, and felt like I could see his spiritual arrogance and others could not. I was confused by this, as it seemed so obvious to me. His defenders seemed to indulge in a blind sort of hero worship. I felt angry but also somewhat vindicated as TT was showing his true colors.
Then came news of Tullian’s adultery. Like Bob Coy, he resigned and left. I was disgusted and angry. I hated how he threw his wife under the bus in an effort to justify his sin. I felt like yelling, “I WARNED YOU. He doesn’t care about anybody but himself. Why can’t you see how he refuses to accept correction?”
I shared on another blog about TT and was read the riot act. I was interrogated as to how I could dare say this man’s public statement didn’t show true repentance! I was told that his sin didn’t hurt anybody but himself and his family. I was shocked. I said, “He is a PASTOR!” I felt like I had to defend myself against this Christian blog by explaining how heinous it was for a minister of Christ to commit adultery. I’m still smarting over it. I actually had to lay it out for this guy how devastating this was for the congregation and for the Name of Christ. Unbelievable.
Now come the latest revelations regarding Tullian. I am angry and grieved all over again.
Tonight, a friend and I began looking for another church. It was Palm Sunday, and unbeknownst to us, the one we went to had a concert. It was very good, focusing on the seven last words of Christ. They talked about the sufferings of the cross and what Jesus did for sinners. I was moved to contemplate my Savior’s sacrifice for me and I felt humble gratitude. It was great to go to church and hear the Name of Jesus exalted in word and hymnody.
I am deeply angry at Bob and Tullian. They wrecked scores of lives and got off scot-free. People did not listen when I warned about Tullian, and others mocked me when I opined that he was unrepentant. I feel betrayed and wounded. I’m beginning to think that I was a victim of spiritual abuse. Why else would all of these feelings be coming out? I am taking a chance that this is a safe place. It seems like I needed to get a lot off my chest. Thanks for letting me write this; I hope this was the appropriate place to do it.
*Debbie’s name has been changed for privacy
photo credit: I believe this flower pot has fallen from a great height via photopin (license)
Spiritual Sounding Board 
I think Shy said it well and her discussion on personal responsibility. Direct from scripture: Romans 6, James, etc. Well said!
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Centrality, you keep using the word “we” as in “we believe” and speaking of churches and theological positions. What do YOU believe? Who is Jesus Christ and what has he done for us?
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Thanks, Anonymous. Right to the point. Amen.
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Shy, I see Jesus as a personal savior that died and rose 3 days later for MY sins. The scripture I was reading this morning is timely, actually.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21
17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, [a]he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and [b]He has [c]committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
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Centrality, only “a” personal savior?
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Shy, not going to comment any more here. On my BLOG under vision statement says more and search for “identity” in Christ and some of my older posts.
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The attorney general and IRS should look at financials of these ex-pastors like Coy and Tchividjian because abuse of money and greed go along with lies and sex. And look at church financials too.
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You are right, Crosbycat.
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In reply to “Debbie’s” personal story: I have not read any of the comments, so I have no idea if anyone has already pointed this out, but I’d like to state the obvious. Pastors TT and Coy did not ” get off scot-free”. Christ paid a real sacrifice for their grievous sins! Yes, they hurt a ton of people, most especially their own loved ones. But if we truly believe Jesus, then he covered it all – many times over; in fact, infinitely so!
The question we have to ask ourselves is was Christ’s payment enough or not? Their sins are ultimately against God. We may feel spiritually abused. Are we willing to carry our spiritually-abused-crosses for TT and Bob Coy and forgive them, and genuinely love them, and pray for them? I’m not talking about approving of them now, or saying “oh it’s okay, as long as you don’t do it again,” or “well he confessed, all is well.” No. Nothing of the sort. All is not okay.
However, that does not mean that all can not be forgiven, and abusive people loved and forgiven – even as they’re driving nails through our hands into a cross. But this kind of love can only come from our Holy Loving God because He first loved us!
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Forgiven yes..empowered no. Both men have been divorced by their wives. It is in the public records in Florida. I think they are disqualified from the pulpit. The best thing for all concerned would be for them to get a secular job, or live off the money they already have. Both were paid 6 figure salaries from what I have read. Tullian already comes from a wealthy family so doubt he really has to work. I have no idea what settlement the wives got, or if they get monthly support payments for the kids.
I think it is telling that their wives opted out of the marriage even after both men received counseling after their confessions. Both women have taken the high road and kept their mouths shut about the whole thing. I don’t know if Coy has said anything about his wife, but Tullian threw his wife under the bus publicly by going to the secular newspaper to tell the world she cheated on him and that was the reason he cheated on her. I guess he didn’t care that his kids might be harmed by this action.
I believe there are serious character flaws that have been shown through this. I think it speaks volumes about how church leadership runs churches and how they cover up things from members that have a right to know. Many churches are worse than what the world dishes out in my opinion. God gives the believer the authority to judge other believers by the standards in the Bible. There are consequences to actions and Pastors are not above all that. Yes. They are forgiven so they need to be ministered to if they are open to it, but churches/members should not empower anyone like this.
Seems like very few people care about the blood, sweat, tears and money that Christian members poured into these ministries nor do they care that the wives, and children, were lied to by the husband and the church leadership. How in the world can an elder look the Pastor’s wife in the eye every Sunday while he knows her husband is having an affair? What kind of man is that? This is more like a Christian soap opera than anything else. I am not giving my tithe to the church so the Pastor can have affairs. Sorry. The Pastor is suppose to feed the flock and that is why I support him. If he wants to do something other than the latter then he needs to get out of this line of work. What is so hard to understand about that?
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“In reply to “Debbie’s” personal story: I have not read any of the comments, so I have no idea if anyone has already pointed this out, but I’d like to state the obvious. Pastors TT and Coy did not ” get off scot-free”. Christ paid a real sacrifice for their grievous sins! Yes, they hurt a ton of people, most especially their own loved ones. But if we truly believe Jesus, then he covered it all – many times over; in fact, infinitely so!”
Your religion (antinomianism) is scary for people who don’t practice it. I mean you can mess over people as many times as you want to and you insist they must forgive you because Jesus Paid the price over and over and over no matter what you do or how many times you do it or for how long.
The problem with this religion is you have no control over other people. You can shame them that their forgiveness does not include total trust. Or that their forgiveness includes a divorce and for the molesters who love this religion it might include prison.
The price Jesus Paid on the cross was also for New Life. Not so people could practice and perfect sin and then demand forgiveness.
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In 1982 I had a unquie experience and began to walk with God . He had showed me he was alive and real . I’d grown up and attended a brethren full gospel church , until I was 12 when I realized I was being bribed to get kids to go to Sunday school . I was saved many times as I knew when I died I was going to hell because I kept on being a brat . Jesus was in heaven wAtching me … My parents never went to church but we were picked up by these good people in a bus every Sunday and parents could have a sleep in …I was saved a couple more times but it wouldn’t last as I didn’t know the power of God until 1982. I loved my pastor and my church , I stuck with it even when some elders took the church away from him in the middle of the service and shocked some of the congregation . They had called me the night before to pray and told me he was involved with a member of the church . Several months before at lunch with him and several people I looked at her and him and the Holy Spirit revealed it to me . I was confused as I hadn’t walked with God long . I asked a friend who was like a spiritual mother to me and close to him , she said he is the most faithful man out , even tho he had separated from his wife just a little while before .
The whole thing was a disaster . The woman left her marriage married him they divorced he died a young man . I still loved him he represented God to me . The church folded after he’d gone tho several tried to keep it together …. Lot of people were following him not God .
I recovered and stuck with the church , the new people were precious , loved us dearly .. And laid things on us that we’re not of God . They were sincere , they thought they could change us but only God can do that …we dwindled to about 25 people and it was time to end it … We moved out of state . It’s been a long hard road , caught up the Charismatic Movement losing sight of God out of fear and too scared to even buy a lotto ticket as the pastor said if I see any of you buying a ticket look out , alcahol forget it ….. I struggled for years , lost my sense of trust in God though I held on to a form of godliness there was no power in my life , my trust was in others prayers and my marriage of over 40 years came to a end by my choosing . You can only fight battles in the flesh for so long .
I lost due to myself what I could of had and what God intended … However he is moving again in my life and perhaps I’ve come full circle and will start again …I have not yet found a church that I can feel the power of God move , in a few years and I long for that ….
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I had attended Calvary Chapel and heard Bob Coy many times. My brother was not a believer and started to attend. First he had a private meeting with Bob, my brother gave his life to the Lord. We are Jewish, hard enough to break the wall between us and Yeshua, Jesus, but God did it! I was so happy my brother believed, it was a dream! My brother respected Bob and listened to him all the time, radio in the car, at home and at the church. They even attended marriage seminars at the church. Then his scandal. Wow, what a shame.
The next year, very close Jewish friends and the husband a mentor towards my brother, with a Jewish ministry and working for a very well known Jewish ministry, He ended up in trouble and eventually in prison for sexual abuse of his girls! OMG! I am so angry. I love his wife, we have been close for 20 years. But what to do about him? He was like a brother to me and a mentor for my brother. How do I relate to them anymore? My brother won’t even go there, to the issue of what he did to his family, girls, friends and those who supported him. We can’t talk about it. So awful…. Still praying how to deal with it, aware that we are ALL sinners saved by the grace of God
Amy
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Bob Coy has left Tennessee and returned to South Florida, where in April he took sole ownership of a beach condo that he had owned with his former wife, Diane.
Tullian has remarried and is living in Texas.
Both abusers look to be “moving on.” Neither has publicly renounced his adulterous sin, at least that I know of.
God sees and knows, and the Judge of all the earth will do right.
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I’m not sure if this is the place to respond to Debbie…but I really want her to know that we are going to pray for her. My husband and I were members at Calvary Chapel when Pastor Bob resigned and just like many others at CR, we were blown away…and angry too. I do want to encourage you though that your God knows your pain, hurt and discouragement and He is always able. If He holds the whole world in the palm of His hands then He’s got control of all of our disappointments and will heal the broken-hearted. Let’s continue to pray for these fallen ministers and their families and for their full restoration. Because that’s what we’re called to do as the body of Christ. I love you Debbie and may God continue to bless you as you worship.
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Erica L., thank you for your post. I am posting as “Donner” now. Your words brought comfort to me as I am watching Tullian’s re-emergence on the scene. God sees and knows. Take care and God bless you both.
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Here’s yet another article about Tullian. http://www.churchcentral.com/blogs/showing-grace-when-a-pastor-needs-it-most/
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J. Smith,
Another article about Tullian; yep, more propagandist rubbish. Giggles, and by a “leadership coach” to boot. Hilarious stuff.
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Oh great. Wait! That’s the expastors guy I think? So, of course he’s a ok with it. Their entire goal is to restore men who have proven themselves untrustworthy to ministry.
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JA deleted comment here per user request.
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@Lea,
Yup, that’s the one, of course. I call ’em accomplices (by association, by condoning, by promoting, by trying to guilt-trip the innocent).
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Dear Diane,
Seeking to restore a brother (or sister) to healthy fellowship? I’m all for it. Seeking to restore an abusive minister who has betrayed his professed calling? Not too eager.
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Actually , that comment was meant to meant to be pulled as I cancelled it , I was going to rephrase what I said and hadn’t gotten back to . Error on their publishing as I did cancel it
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dianejbrewer,
It would be the very best for all involved if TT did not go back into the professional public ministry as he chose to disqualify himself due to his own thoughts/actions, his own behavioral patterns. No one made him sin, he chose that life for himself. I too, have sinned over and over again and fallen short of the Glory of God. And too, as the Apostle Paul chose to have a job to support himself so the mammon collected for the ministry of Jesus, the Christ could be redistributed to the poor, the widows, the sick and needy amongst the people of that day, so too, the pastorate was never meant to be a professional living where the clergy preyed upon the ekklesia/called out ones for a salary and living expenses. All of that was created by man, for man, apart from Jesus.
The best counsel for Tullian is to go out a get a real job to support his family and lead a quiet life living for our LORD Jesus, the Christ. His name and His WAY was NEVER meant to use for earning money as a living like we see today. Tullian is a hireling.
Not my words, but God’s Words.
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Money is a huge problem in the church these days. I agree.
I am not sure why ExPastors keeps beating a dead horse. The whole article was bizarre in my opinion. Did I really have to know he cried in front of his daughter? I wondered if this guy, or ExPastors, ever cries for those in the pew? Did I really have to be privy to his therapy session? Did the therapist know about the many victims in this case? What would he tell those people if they were in the same room? The details in that piece kinda turned me off to be honest. I sensed it as manipulative and one sided. Was pure emotion and no scripture was used to justify the reason to have TT on their site. Is this guy gearing up for another piece to be on ExPastors?
I also sense that ExPastors really want Tullian to win because then they all win. There is this collective mindset of a brotherhood that needs to have a hero among their ranks. Someone that made it back to the pulpit so they can all point to that guy as their example of what they all can accomplish. They can use the Tullian template to accomplish it.
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Hi Julie Anne. I read your blog faithfully and appreciate all you do. I have a question for a person who recently posted. How do I submit that? Should i pass my question to you first and you forward it to her? It’s not a public issue, so I wasn’t sure. Thank you so much
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Yes, Simcha, that will work. Spiritualsb@gmail.com
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When Pastor Bob fell, I admit that it was a very hurtful and painful experience. But I never looked at Pastor Bob in a way that most people did who left Calvary Chapel. One thing I learned from being a student of the word is Jesus should be the example I follow and not a Pastor. Man will fail us from time to time but God never will. With that in mind I have continued to attend Calvary because as one of the assistant Pastor’s said, Jesus is the Ultimate Pastor and Founder of the church and that what gives me hope. I will continue my prayer for both fallen Pastor’s and their families.
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I am grateful that someone would be willing to step out in faith. If Jesus was here I do believe that He would remind us who we war against? Not against flesh & blood, but against Satan & his lies to keep families in bondage to sin. Where is the support of our churches to fight the battle of sexual sin, that only Satan can bring. Our churches need to come together to bring recovery to the families who battle this sin. My family has had incest for generations & just like any other addiction to sin that Satan brings to us, we need help to be restored to right thinking & Godly ways. My families have shown up for church for generations & the sexual sins do not stop. But as I chose to leave my family & so did my husband, we both noticed that we have no help from the church to heal from incest & relearn right thinking & find forgiveness. And as for the truth of who we are in christ? If God said we are all forgiven & forgivable, then where is our help to overcome the sins of the enemy. Who really is the church? Does the church get to pick through the woman at the well or the woman that they dragged through the streets? I can say this for myself, I was never loved by the sex addicts in my home. They can’t love you. They love sex, so you are taught to believe that you are only worth sex. This was taught to both my husband & I. Where is our church in this. We both continue to heal & get help, but sadly it is not the churches that are helping us. We feel more like outcasts, & we were only 3 & 4 years old when this horrible sinfulness started for us. You can’t know who you are in Christ or believe it when the church does not even believe it. We never asked to be sexually abused. God chose our homes for us & planned for this sin to stop. Now where are our churches to help everyone to end this sin that Satan has brought on our families. I truly hope someone will think on this. How do we bring anyone else into the church when there Is no help, & tell them God loves us all ,& wants to help us all to heal! The church dies not even back us up. Jesus said He loved ALL of His little children not some. Help us to stop Satan from winning this war of lies & keeping families out of the church who are seeking help. Bring a light into the window of many who have lost hope & cut them selves & do other addictions to kill the pain & have NO hope in being loved or healed from being secually abused or their family being run by Satan! I pray someone will read this & want to own the doors of their church to help people like us who were innocent children & need a loving church to help to be restored to right thinking & learn to love ourselves because God loves us & not feel rejected by churches or shamed by what Satan brought into our families generations ago! Please be a light in the window for the Love of God that is in Christ Jesus & help us in our battle against Satan to kill our families with sexual addictions. God Bless you all who have read this. There are many hurting & no church to go. God Bless you all!
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Good Grief Sister, I am sorry regarding what you have experienced.
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You who are spiritual restore such a one with a Spirit of humility and gentleness lest ye find yourself in sin. All has to be handled in spiritual maturity with humilty but with obvious discipline. Many times Elders do not have plurality of leadership and are not truly being subject to one another. Not saying these are the cases here however Plurality of leadership requires plurality of accountabily to each other. wonder if they meet with each other (Elders) in there homes or on a personable level to pray for each other etc…
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Debbie I read you concerns and comments and I ask you this question, have you ever sinned. I know that what they both did was wrong and only because they were pastors such matters are in the light. Please do not misunderstand me, I totally agree that this is wrong, but how many lives have been saved by God using these two men. I remember Bob back behind Albertsons. Today a mega church, pray for them, pray that the Lord has mercy, pray that God will heal those who were affected. Your voice here seems negative, let’s change that to a positive. Know that God is still in control. Know that those two men are also God’s children. Know that they need the love of God not man in their life. As a pastor child who has made a lot of mistakes in my life, I thank God for his mercy. I am not perfect and as a pastors child people think that we cannot make a mistake. Believe me they feel the lost of there family, they know the pain they have caused them. They don’t need a reminder daily. They need God.
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I remember when Bob Coy was a teacher and a home fellowship leader at Calvary Las Vegas and something I noticed throughout the years as I look back is Calvary Chapel under the leadership of Pat Walsh didn’t really appoint people that were train for leadership, they only appointed the people that seem to touch the people in ways that weren’t really according to scripture. For the scripture says that if a man desires a position of leadership, he must first be tested. None of them were really tested, and it seems like all of them seem to hold to a teaching that wasn’t filled: not with the truth, but filled with how to make both people feel good. However, this isn’t what the Bible teaches.
The Bible teaches that we must grow in sound Doctrine and the teachings of the word of God. And when you do this, people will be growing their faith that is solid. And when you don’t, you form a congregation that is built on feelings instead of a relationship because it’s not who you know it’s who you’re known.
But according to scripture, I love Bob Coy to death. I think he is a very interesting person; however, that love doesn’t cover that I look at him as somebody who wasn’t prepared to be a leader in a church – not because he has fallen, but because he really has no true training because scripture must be treated as the last Authority on God’s word. Because god’s word is absolutely true. And when you step outside of all these truths, something always goes wrong. And I hate that for Bob, but I think people should understand that when you put a person in the position of a leader, he must be spiritually mature which takes as much time as it does to grow into an adult as a human, because spiritual life is an exact mirror image of physical life.
We do not grow in 5 years and become high schoolers or college majors, it takes time when we start maturing in Christ. That takes time. Jesus didn’t even start his ministry till he was 30 years old and he was the son of God. If my child had a heart problem, I would not want to take him to a twelfth grader to seek understanding on how to fix it, I would rather take him to a trained physician cardiologist to seek answers for the Cure.
With that said, I love Bob Coy. I was part of the church when he became a Christian. I saw his rise and I’m sad to say I saw his Fall From Grace as a pastor. If I could speak to him today, I would tell him, “if you are a child of God, repent and continue growing in your faith,” because what matters is that we are obedient to what God has shown us as believers. It is first a personal relationship, and then that personal relationship will grow to everything else.
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You (Debbie) are a self righteous women. Who do you think you are to condemn anyone. Read your Bible on forgiveness. I think you’re vemon. Maybe you my be using unresolved childhood issues and using these Pastors sin. And finally its people like you as to why I stay away from Church.
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Markgore,
I only approved your post to give you an official warning. We do not allow personal attacks here. Next time, you will experience the SSB dog house. Surely you can find a better way to word things without attacking someone! Signed, The Moderator
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Wow. Just, wow. Such vitriol. Hey Mark, if “it’s people like me” that cause you to stay away from church, what do people like Tullian cause you to do?
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Deal with your own husbands deeds before you attack others in the church. Remember the women at the well? I think not. A suggestion try some Repartive Therapy with a Phd or Psyd specilizing with people with anger issues.
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markgore,
You call Debbie “venom” or “vermin” (I’m not sure what you mean. “Vemon,” according to some sleazy online dictionary, is a mix between a vampire and a demon). Now I’m detecting some unresolved issues…maybe in you. “Gore”? Yup, some clear issues there.
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Mark, you were warned. You are now in the SSB doghouse which means that every comment will have to pass my test before it is published.
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markgore
Was wondering…
When you say…
“Who do you think you are to “condemn” anyone.”
Why do you “condemn?”
Was wondering…
When you say…
“Read your Bible on forgiveness.”
If you, markgore, had read your Bible on forgiveness?
Before you, decided to comment about forgiveness?
How would you sound? speak? write?
To those you think are NOT forgiving?
And, being “self-righteous?” “condemning?”
And, having “anger issues?”
Maybe you could practice on us, sounding? speaking? writing?
Like someone who is NOT having “anger issues?”
Like someone who is NOT “condemning?”
Like someone who is NOT “self-righteous?”
Maybe you could sound like…
Like someone who really is forgiving?
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Remove me from this legaliatic site. Your photo makes me cringe.
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I approved the last comment because it made me LOL. There was another comment directed to Amos which was not approved.
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Remove me from this site where I voluntarily showed up to just to gripe and accuse people of needing reparative therapy (?)! Oh no! It made me lol too.
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Yes, I am holding Mark captive to this site all the way from the desert if WA state while J attend college classes. Dear me! I must be pretty powerful.
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Another comment not approved. Mark, sorry, eating excrement is not my desired food choice. I’ll pass.
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I also feel I received “spiritual abuse” from a church I was attending faithfully for 23 years. The pastor didn’t commit adultery but it seemed like he did with his eyes and the way he would touch certain women including myself. He manipulated the congregation into giving, quiting jobs, schools even kept from moving or buying a home. I can go on and on and on of what I’ve seen there in the last 23 years. I left and was ostracized by people I helped raise there! What did I do so wrong? I left. That’s all they needed. I feel like I still live with the aftermath of simply leaving this “abuse of power” church. I’m glad I’m out but I still am suffering.
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Caroline jones,
Give yourself all the time you need to heal, 23 years is a long time. Glad you got out, may the Lord comfort you in your suffering.
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Ha ha! Mark Gore, you need some spelling therapy. I’m dating a guy named Vernon by the way. He never mentioned your name.
Love these people who rant, “You’re going to Hell for judging me, you XXXX!” Very nonjudgmental and tolerant of them. I’m sure they only say it in Christian love.
Seems the only sins these personality cult mega-churches cannot forgive are SERIOUS ones. Like when a pastor grows thin on top or his toothpaste quits whitening his toothy grin. Some serious offenses there. 😀
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