Pastor Saeed Abedini,Nagmeh, Domestic Violence, Public Statement
Idaho Statesman has issued a public statement by Saeed Abedini as follows:
Two weeks ago today I was released from an Iranian prison after being held captive for three-and-a-half years. My crime? Being a Christian and refusing to renounce my faith in Jesus Christ. Throughout my imprisonment my wife Naghmeh drew national attention to my case and encouraged millions of people to pray for my release. God answered those prayers and brought me safely home. Naghmeh has been a hero to me and suffered enormously as a result of being 7,000 miles away from me and being a single parent to our two precious children while traveling and leading a crusade on my behalf. I will always love her for her sacrifice.
Last November, Naghmeh began to write about our marriage on her Facebook page and suspended her public advocacy for me. Her Facebook reports have been widely reported in other media outlets, raising questions about me, and the state of our marriage. As a prisoner in Iran I was not able to respond to her comments and accusations. I have chosen not to respond in the two weeks I have been back in America because I believe personal issues are best dealt with personally.
When I arrived in America I went to the Billy Graham Training Center in North Carolina with my parents and my sister, fully expecting Naghmeh and our children to join me there. She chose instead to remain at home in Idaho, and when I arrived there this week I was met with news that she had filed a domestic relations case, apparently in order to ensure our children could remain in the state. Of course, I had no intention of taking our children away from our home or our state.
This latest development, which Naghmeh first made public, leads me to offer this brief statement.
- Our marriage is under great stress and I am hoping and praying for healing and restoration.
- I love my wife and want God’s will for both of our lives.
- I am a sinner, saved only by the wonderful grace of God. While I am far from perfect—as a man or as a husband, I am seeking every day to submit to God as He molds me into what He wants me to be.
- Much of what I have read in Naghmeh’s posts and subsequent media reports is not true. But I believe we should work on our relationship in private and not on social media or other media. Naghmeh wrote this week, “We are taking personal time to work on very serious personal issues.” I intend to do this hard work in private.
- The God I serve today is the same God I served while being interrogated and beaten in some of the harshest prison conditions in the world and He is capable of restoring a marriage that has withstood unbelievable pressure. I ask for prayer for another victory.
It is not my intention to speak further publicly—through social media or any other channels—at least until I believe we have made significant progress in private. I thank you for your understanding and support.
Please stay tuned for follow up articles on this troubling situation. -Julie Anne
Spiritual Sounding Board 
It seems that porn is not so unusual in Iranian prisons. Why do you think Saeed wouldn’t have access to it?
https://en.iranwire.com/features/6932/
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Gary W said,
Yes, the “complementarian” term is new-ish (it was stolen by the comps from egalitarians a few decades ago), but the SEXIST ATTITUDES (all caps for emphasis, not yelling) held and taught by some Christians have been around in Christianity since pretty early on.
You can find these same quotes on all sorts of sites, from Christian ones to atheist ones:
_20 Vile Quotes Against Women By Religious Leaders From St. Augustine to Pat Robertson_
Snippets (I’m not copying all the quotes on the page, this is but a sampling):
The media’s most unabashed misogynists are actually tame compared to their ideological ancestors, which include the biggest names in Christian history.
Church Doctors and Fathers
·[For women] the very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame.
–Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2
·Woman is a temple built over a sewer.
–Tertullian, “the father of Latin Christianity” (c160-225)
· Woman was merely man’s helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God.
–Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
· Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one.
–Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)
Protestant Reformers
· The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes.
–Martin Luther, Reformer (1483-1546)
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“JDG
JANUARY 31, 2016 @ 5:03 PM
What a horrible brood of vipers. Feminism and Christianity are not compatible. You are in serious error. READ YOUR BIBLES. Pray for God to give you wisdom. Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your minds. I have no doubt you would ban Christ Himself where He to comment here.”
Who cares? In your world, women can’t be Christians anyway. We are not allowed to follow Jesus Christ. We have to be led and subjugated by men, not GOD.
Wow. No wonder there is a “feminist rebellion”!
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Jonathan said,
<
blockquote>he might be firey person who has rows with his wife that could endanger his wife, but I’m not sure if hits her. Of course domestic assault is absolutely abhorrent.
<
blockquote> “Fiery rows” = verbal abuse, which is just as (or can be more) damaging to a victim than physical abuse.
There a million pages out there (by many psychologists) about the dangers of verbal abuse, which define it and describe it, such as:
_http://www.verbalabuse.com/_
Verbal abuse can be done over the phone or in e-mail. I.E. “verbal” does not have to mean literally “said with a person’s mouth” but can be repeated negative, hostile writing, where the abuser rips the victim’s self-esteem down to shreds, or makes threats against the victim.
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@BeenThereDoneThat.
Thanks for the information, but her claim was that he was using ‘sexual/porn’ on his phone – for the sake of argument I’ll give you that one. What about the other six questions?
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Jonathan said, “sorry I meant endanger his relationship. I don’t yet see anything to show Saeed hits her.”
Verbal and emotional abuse are abuse as well.
Abuse is not limited to only hitting (physical assault).
Verbal abuse can be carried out over the phone, in e-mail, on social media, or in person (ie, it can be done via writing, not just orally).
There are different types of verbal abuse, not just out and out name-calling and profanity. It comes in different styles and flavors, and all of it can be detrimental to the target of the abuse.
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@ Anon. said
“Thanks for the information, but her claim was that he was using ‘sexual/porn’ on his phone – for the sake of argument I’ll give you that one. What about the other six questions?”
Why are people who are defending the wife being placed under a microscope, being grilled and investigated? This is a rhetorical question.
This is very backwards.
This would be somewhat like me running into a police station to report I just saw a neighbor of mine who was mugged and the police asking me all sorts of questions as though they think I am lying about the mugging, or that they are skeptical that a mugging took place.
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So many people seem to be missing the point entirely. The mostly online backlash that has been directed at Naghmeh and her supporters isn’t about defending an abuser or blaming a victim, its not about justification of abuse. it’s about the seeming public conviction and condemnation and virtual execution of a man, Saeed, on the basis of accusation alone. Saeed may in fact be guilty he may in fact be innocent, who cares get a rope?
If it was 1692 and we were in Salem Massachusetts the good ladies here would already have Saeed swinging in the wind.
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healing said,
As for Saeed wanting to keep this private? Duh, I don’t think so. His imprisonment and release was made very public. His wife rallied for him publicly.
It wasn’t even Neghmeh who made much of this public. It’s my understanding someone from her inner circle leaked her personal correspondence about the situation to the public.
Secondly, if she had no plans of standing by her man when he flew back into the USA after being released, you just know that the media and public would have asked her why she didn’t go to see him. They would demand to know why she was keeping her distance from him now.
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Anonymous, do you by chance work for the DeMoss PR firm? :o)
I cannot answer your specific detailed questions but I will say that I used to be on the board of a crisis center and decided I was woefully ignorant on the issue so I immersed myself in the subject.
Being a business person and outsider I would be very frustrated with the victims. I simply did not understand the comprehensive psychology of the problem. The grooming, the chaos, the manipulation, etc, victims make horrible witnesses. They are mentally exhausted, scared, emotional, etc. a lot of abuse does not end in bruises or broken bones. We had one gal locked in a closet for 24 hours. Another had been pinned down and glue poured all over her hair. Physically injury? Most reported living in fear of the abuser making good on threats. But when he is nice, he is wonderful. That sort of roller coaster world.
They were ‘marks”. They were not wooed because they would be complicated marks. Their very nature of perceived weakness, fairness, empathy, ignorance, and/or other characteristics were important.
As a side note, we had a big problem with pastors who came as the emissary for the abuser. Begging her to come back cos he is sorry and the children need their father.
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Gov Pappy, your post of ((JANUARY 31, 2016 @ 5:42 AM)) was spot on.
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Also, shout out to Overcomer, whose posts above were mucho excellente.
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Re Loni True
JANUARY 31, 2016 @ 7:43 AM
That sounds all well and good, but innocent until proven guilty is a legal term, right? We’re just average joe’s on a blog with our opinions which is another kettle of fish.
Also, this attitude of “there are two sides to every story,” “let’s not be hasty and believe her because she said her side first,” or “let’s wait and see” or “we need more evidence” only enables the abuser.
The blog “A Cry for Justice” does a better job of explaining that concept than I ever could, so I refer you to that blog (I think this blog has a link to ACFJ somewhere).
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Jonathan.
I have been abused emotionally from the moment I was born until recently.
I am now ‘no contact’ with my Mother and my Father is on his last leg.
I can’t recall being hit or touched inappropriately, but every night my Dad would get drunk and say the cruellest things to my brother and I.
My Mother facilitated it and stayed with him. She ‘gaslights’ now about it.
The consequences of this ‘non physical’ abuse?
Anxiety
Depressive episodes
Hair Pulling
Panic Attacks
Am I being dramatic!?
No. This is my reality.
Abuse does not need to be ‘fist to face’ to be real.
Emotional abuse scars rarely heal.
Physical ones generally do.
I hope you never have to deal with emotional abuse.
It is evil.
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Anonymous,
As to your points 1 through 4, can you provide links, or at least point us to independently verifiable sources. I don’t expect there is any disagreement as to the truth, just as to the significance, of your points 5-7. I respectfully submit that you are vulnerable to a charge of sophistry regarding the non-distinction you draw between legal separation and divorce. Maybe it’s different in Idaho, but where I live one seeks a legal separation in hopes that reconciliation can be achieved before an actual dissolution of marriage.
I can appreciate the point you make about the State of Idaho being satisfied vis a vis Saeed’s criminal record. However, we are not now discussing whether he should be subjected to further sanctions under Idaho’s penal code. Rather, we are saying that his admission and conviction on the domestic assault charge lends credence to the possibility that he might be guilty of the abuse with which his wife now charges him. Certainly, if he wishes to continue in ministry, he has a whole lot of explaining to do, or at least he ought to have a whole lot of explaining to do. Personally, as a member of the jury of public opinion, I will deem Saeed to be disqualified from ministry until he has given a full, open and transparent account of himself, with proof of transformation, and has subjected himself to ongoing, meaningful accountability. Certainly he will have to stop speaking in the abuserese Jeff Crippen identified first thing.
You are saying you are defending the rights of the accused. Why? Is he facing the possibility of another criminal charge? Does he not already have plenty of defenders? Are you being paid to defend him? I don’t say that you are, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Why not come to Naghmeh’s aid instead?
I join you in the sentiment expressed in the final paragraph of your 7:06 PM comment.
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My guess is that you can get porn and drugs in Iranian prisons. People are often under the mistaken impression that strict Islamic societies don’t have these issues. One of the most astonishing finds concerning the Taliban elites including tribal chiefs were their penchant for young boys. Very Patriarchal cultures have a history of sexual deviation.
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Marsha said
I gave a similar example at the other blog in a link to a You Tube video I gave by Lundy Bancroft.
He told the story in this video of talking to a male abuser, a husband who beat his wife. The husband said he beat his wife the last time because she accused him of having an affair.
Bancroft said, “Well, did you in fact have an affair? Was your wife correct about that?”
The husband said, “Yes, but she had NO PROOF of it, so she should not have brought it up.”
So there you go. Even if you don’t have proof but the abuser ADMITS freely to being guilty, he still thinks the wife should be beaten. Very sick stuff.
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My first husband knocked me down. I had my cell phone in my pocket and called 911. The police were there in 90 seconds, came right in and saw him standing over me in a boxing stance. He wouldn’t cooperate and after trying to get him to comply (for half an hour) they had to tase him to get him out of the house. The assault on me was pled away and he pled guilty to resisting arrest, a misdemeanor.
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@ empathologism Regarding post of: ((JANUARY 31, 2016 @ 8:50 AM))
So you are saying that a man who was imprisoned for his religious beliefs in a foreign land should be excused for being abusive to his wife and for viewing dirty pictures/movies?
I didn’t realize that “spreading the Gospel” was a “get out of jail free card” that allowed its holder to sin all the time and to boot, not to have to suffer negative consequences for that sin.
Romans 6:12:
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be!
empathologism said,
F. Graham has already been defending Saeed, or showcasing him. He’s been posting favorably about Saeed on his Facebook page, meeting the guy for photo ops too if I’m not mistaken.
F. Graham is the same guy who actually gets upset and blows up about Target stores removing signs that say “boy” and “girl” in their toy aisles.
empathologism said,
The reality is the total opposite of that.
Most of the time, when a Christian woman goes to her church or preacher and makes an accusation of abuse, that church (or preacher) either disbelieve her or give her dangerous and ineffective advice, such as to go home and “submit more” to the abuser, or just “pray” about the situation.
There is example of example of how churches mistreat abused wives (and sometimes abused husbands, when the husband is the victim) at the A Cry For Justice blog.
In the last several years of reading testimonies and articles about domestic violence, I have RARELY heard of the church that stands by the victim and holds the (usually male) abuser accountable.
Churches almost always kick the wife out or ostracize her and rally around the abuser. Churches do the same thing with child fondling cases: they ignore the victim but rally the troops around the abuser. It’s backwards and disgusting.
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empathologism said
“Overcomer….remember your ridiculous words here. Someone is accused of something, they respond by saying they are innocent…..that proves they are guilty.”
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
An abuser is rarely going to admit to being an abuser, so yes, I’d expect one to minimize what he did, or be vague about it, just as Saeed’s PR statement read.
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Oh, gee, thanks. Just google “contraband cell phones in prisons” and read about what a big problem it is in US prisons. I wouldn’t be at all surprised they exist in Iranian prisons as well. And you can watch Amazon prime on an iPhone.
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There have been a number of new commenters today. Welcome!
I just released some moderated comments, so if you don’t see yours, please scroll up a bit and see if you can find it. Some were buried with new comments. 🙂
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@Lydiamalone00@gmail.com I work for a technology firm.
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empathologism sid,
Your attitude on this thread says more about you than about Julie Anne or anyone else here or women in general.
You sound like you have some real hang-ups and issues against women.
BTW, most victims of domestic violence are women.
Society encourages women to be passive doormats – churches double down on that teaching, while men are encouraged to be aggressive, go after what they want. It figures that most violence (verbal and/or physical) happens by men to women, not vice versa.
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@BeenThereDoneThat Per usual, giving respect doesn’t provide any assurance of receiving the same in return. Thanks for the education, I’m altogether unfamiliar with Amazon Prime for IOS! Can you please explain to me how I can watch Amazon Prime from my iPhone at 35.7972 and 51.3862
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Download Amazon Instant Video from the App Store. Presto!
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Gary W Re Franklin Graham’s private jet.
I saw articles over the past year that F. Graham gets a ton of money each year.
_Franklin Graham’s Salary Raises Eyebrows_
I read something a year or more ago that bothered me. I don’t remember where I read it, but it didn’t speak well of FG’s character.
The article I read said his mother had asked not to be buried at the Graham family amusement park thing (that public property that has the big barn building with a huge cross on the side). She specifically requested to be buried in some cemetary or what not. She sounded pretty adamant about not wanting to be buried at the public park thing.
So FG goes against his mother’s wises and had her buried on the Graham family amusement park property. It was implied in the article (or one got the feeling) that Graham only wanted his mom buried there as a tourist attraction. It made me sick. If your mother requests to be buried at X location, you bury her at X.
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JM said,
This has been answered ad nauseum on other blogs by other people.
He had access to Skype while in prison, and some said he may have had access to cell phones with internet access.
You can verbally abuse someone over phone, or in writing (e mail, Facebook etc). I’ve lived with a verbal abuser myself for years and years, and she lashes out orally and in writing, over the phone, in person, in snail mail, etc.
And yes, verbal and emotional abuse is nasty, and it takes a toll on a person. I had to block my sister from my life pretty much because the constant barrage of profanity laced tirades and her telling me I am trash and worthless and so on.
Words can hurt a person and knock them down too, not just fists to the face.
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@Gary W — I can see why this forum has so little traffic! J’accuse.
Of course I can provide ‘independent and verifiable evidence.’ Point me to the WIKI on how to post a screen capture in this forum and I’ll post Naghmeh’s actual words in screen snapshot with timestamp. It’s public domain from her Facebook page which has no privacy settings and is thus public domain. The quotes I reference are all from her account in response to her January 27th Post. https://www.facebook.com/NaghmehAbedini?fref=ts
“You are saying you are defending the rights of the accused. Why?”
I find his wife’s exaggerations to be troubling. Why don’t you question the thousands of people on her Facebook post that presume his guilt? At least I have enough grace to state straight up that I don’t know if she is telling the truth; this position is never taken by her supporters and his accusers. Not on this thread, and nowhere on the web. i don’t see you extending the same.
“Is he facing the possibility of another criminal charge?” You’re something, he was just released from an Iranian prison. What he’s facing is a Civil case.
“Does he not already have plenty of defenders?” I guess so, one is more than the accusers can stand.
“Are you being paid to defend him?” No, as mentioned in my previous post I am gainfully employed. I am quite confident that the TRO provided Naghmeh with the entirety of the Abedini finances including all of the funds that were raised in his absence.
“I don’t say that you are, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Why not come to Naghmeh’s aid instead?” I don’t pick a position based on social acceptance. Cheering on the stoning of Saeed is certainly in vogue.
I like how you ignored the points I made and instead suggested I am being paid by Saeed, am misquoting Naghmeh and need to show my proof. It never takes long for a factual argument to be denigrated, ignored, redirected or evaded. J’Accuse rules.
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@BeenThereDoneThat Thanks, you are a genius. How can I watch Amazon Prime via IOS from 35.7972 and 51.3862 Since you are a resident genius you know those coordinates.
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Kathi said,
All of that is true.
Abuse goes through cycles. After the abuser hits or verbally terrorizes the victim, he will often apologize profusely to her, then later go into what is called the “honeymoon” phrase, and bring the victim flowers, or take her out to dinner, etc.
In my case, my main (verbal) abuser has been my big sister. The thing that confused me about her is that she is not abusive 100% of the time.
My sister has times when she’s okay, fun to be around, and even friendly. She usually even sends me a lovely birthday card every year and a nice present or two at Christmas. -This threw me off balance for years, the occasional nice behavior or gesture mixed in with the lousy behavior.
But then I began reading more and more about abusive types, and this is how they keep the victim “hooked,” from leaving. Some of them will intermingle the abuse and cruelty with a few days, weeks, or months of kindness and nice gestures.
The abuser will throw you a trinket every so often to get your hope up where you think, “maybe this time tings will stay better.” But eventually the abuser erupts in rage again and the cycle starts all over.
Anyway, my experience has been, and blogs posts and books by experts on abuse confirm, that abusers do not abuse 100% of the time, for if they did, even the most trusting or naive of victims would realize they are being abused and leave!
My internet friends tried telling me several years ago that my sister was abusing me, when I described to them how she was treating me. I was blind to it back then and made excuses for her behavior. Now I see what they were talking about, and I tried to take steps to change it.
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Anon said to Gary,
I find his wife’s exaggerations to be troubling.
She’s not exaggerated, though. She’s not gone into detail about the abuse at all.
Most of what she said at first was in private correspondence which someone from her inner circle leaked to the public. And even that didn’t contain much detail.
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Moderator note: Please debate topics without getting personal.
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JM
JANUARY 31, 2016 @ 2:49 PM
People usually don’t lie about being abused. Your view defaults to the side of the abuser. You’re enabling the abuser.
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The same way everyone else does. Do you plan on staying at Evin prison?
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“As to your points 1 through 4, can you provide links, or at least point us to independently verifiable sources. I don’t expect there is any disagreement as to the truth, just as to the significance, of your points 5-7. I respectfully submit that you are vulnerable to a charge of sophistry regarding the non-distinction you draw between legal separation and divorce. Maybe it’s different in Idaho, but where I live one seeks a legal separation in hopes that reconciliation can be achieved before an actual dissolution of marriage.”
Good points. What is the significance of the questions pulled from her various posts over time? Again, we see this focus on minutia with the victim but not the abuser. And there WAS a case.
There is now another question about his application for ministry which was approved in 2008. It asks questions about arrests and such. (Don’t have it in front of me but if I can find the link in another blog thread will share it).
This goes beyond the legal. Are character and integrity only for the secularists? Legal separation means the same here as you describe above. It also gives an opportunity to work out custody issues living apart.
Saaed had the perfect opportunity while crafting his public statement to come clean about the charge and guilty plea in 2007 for DV. He chose not to. Bloggers found the case so now what are we to think?
The guy has been through hell. I certainly don’t want a witch hunt on him, either. But this came out and the dumping on Naghmeh has been proven to be unwarranted. She has been living the oh so typical ministry lie. I can see where this separation has given her some breathing room for a different kind of normal. From my experience as an advocate she comes off as the typical victim who has lived a double life trying to support him and protect herself. It never works. And being immersed in the caste system Christianity of CC made it worse.
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JDG said,
I’m not a feminist. I can only presume you are a gender complementarian or into Christian patriarchy? Comp and Pat are not compatible with Christianity, either.
I used to be a gender complementarian, and I was taught to view secular feminism as an enemy.
While I still disagree with much of left wing, secular feminism, they are not monsters.
In many ways, all secular feminists are doing is trying to protect girls and women from being treated unfairly or abusively in marriages, schools, or workplaces.
-Which is a laudable thing, it’s what Jesus Christ did, eg, Luke 7:36-50 (Link).
I’m afraid you are associating people showing concern, compassion, and fairness to the female gender as being “feminist” when in fact it is, among other things, very biblical and Christian.
Harboring this amount of sexism and malice against women as you do is more in tune with the world, because the fallen world hates the female gender.
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Embracing Reality said
<
blockquote> So many people seem to be missing the point entirely. The mostly online backlash that has been directed at Naghmeh and her supporters isn’t about defending an abuser or blaming a victim, its not about justification of abuse. it’s about the seeming public conviction and condemnation and virtual execution of a man, Saeed, on the basis of accusation alone
<
blockquote> Please go spend some time reading about domestic violence. The abusers want you to think this way, it helps them steer clear of being held accountable of their actions.
Try visiting the “A Cry For Justice” blog and read up on these subjects. I believe there is a link to that blog from the home page of this one, or can google for it and find it.
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lifewithporpoise RE: JANUARY 31, 2016 @ 8:02 PM
I’m sorry, lifewithporpoise 😦
Your story sounds pretty similar to mine, only my big sister was my number one verbal abuser. My dad has also been similar, but he’s not as severe as my sister with the verbal abuse, like if I start to cry or tell him to knock it off, he shuts his mouth, at least.
My sister, however – no amount of tears or begging can get her to shut up when she gets into her hate filled tirades.
Regular emotional / verbal abuse can create very negative consequences for the victim. So many Christians don’t understand that, they only think of abuse in terms of bloody noses, black eyes, or broken arms.
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Lydiamalone00@gmail.com said
Yep. I have heard that some of the Muslim big wigs who run other nations, in spite of bad mouthing the USA in their media, they LOVE all things American, especially our action adventure or sci-fi movies.
After 9/11, the media reported how in the days before the attack, the terrorists got drunk and stuff. (Good Muslims aren’t supposed to get drunk.)
The media reported on the Islamic terrorist Boulahcen and her party life style:
_EXCLUSIVE: Extraordinary selfie of terror mastermind’s cousin shows girl blown up in Saint-Denis siege who never read the Koran, liked to drink and smoke and had a reputation for having lots of boyfriends_ (Daily Mail)
You know what’s kind of sad-funny about this? The parallel to evangelical or fundamentalist Christianity, is what.
Some of the most outspoken Christian haters of dirty magazines and movies and booze and so on in the Christianity community sometimes end up being guilty of those very things, or things much worse, such as Baptist preacher Jack Schaap who was having sex with a teen-aged girl at his church, which he later went to jail for.
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Anonymous said,
Thanks, you are a genius. How can I watch Amazon Prime via IOS from 35.7972 and 51.3862 Since you are a resident genius you know those coordinates.
You’re asking BTDT about Tehran, Iran? Why not just say so rather than give the latitude and longitude?
Are you saying that people in other nations don’t have same or similar apps or technology, that it would be impossible for guys over in Iran to view pR0n? I just did a google for the phrase “p-rn in iran” and up came a bazillion sites. Could those maybe be viewed on a cell phone while in Iran?
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Wow. Reading this story and the comments here took me back to my own abusive relationship and eventual divorce – almost 13 years ago now.
All the hallmarks were there – but like the frog in the pot, I had told myself the boiling water was normal: abusive use of finances, with no concern for my own needs – draining the bank account to the point where I couldn’t even fill my car with gas while returning from a weekend visit to relatives with my baby. Introducing pornography into our home. Serious sexual issues and a completely dysfunctional marital bed. Smoking in the house just to get my goad when they knew how much smoke bothers me. Refusal to attend church with me and guilt trips when I refused to show solidarity by likewise staying home. Poisoning our counseling meetings with subversive attempts to get the counsellor polarized against me before even meeting me. An inability to settle down, forcing us to move 8 times in 13 years. Emotional outbursts almost every day. Erratic and bizarre “God told me” episodes that frankly made me fear for my child’s safety. And finally, finding my soulmate had abandoned me on Valentines Day, prefering the company of 5 adoring strangers at a local Karaoke bar.
And still, after all this, the divorce wasn’t my idea. It was forced on me. And can you imagine where I met this person and fell in love? Bible School. Talk about “spiritual abuse.”
Adding insult to injury, most books I read and spiritual counsel I sought told me this was primarily myfault.
Sometimes – as I learned the hard way – the person with external appearances of righteousness can be hiding some very dark places in their soul along with unhealed wounds that make them unfit to parent.
13 years later, I am glad to have found freedom and healing, and at least a few people in the church were able to put their wings around me and help me fly again.
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This one line is what stuck out to me.
“Much of what I have read in Naghmeh’s posts and subsequent media reports is not true. But I believe we should work on our relationship in private and not on social media or other media.”
He is exerting his control here. He is smearing her image (while maintaining his own) and is essentially telling her to shut up. He has now put Naghmeh in a no win situation where she may feel the need to keep silent. If she decides to disobey his wishes, then her image will be tarnished and he will be seen as the hero and victim by those ignorant of abusers and sociopaths.
Of course he did in fact defend himself publicly despite saying they should work on this in private. This is classic…
He will wait until Naghmeh makes the next move. Then as soon as she does, he will come back out again to defend his image and to attack her.
Naghmeh needs our prayers. I cannot even imagine the fear and internal anguish she is feeling right now. I remember those nights all too often when even separated from the abuser, you still feel he is controlling and oppressing you… Because in a sense, he is. 😦
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“I am quite confident that the TRO provided Naghmeh with the entirety of the Abedini finances including all of the funds that were raised in his absence.’
What? How would this work now that he is back in the states? How is he restrained from any joint bank accounts?
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“What? How would this work now that he is back in the states? How is he restrained from any joint bank accounts?”
Anonymous needs to answer this question. On what basis is he so confident that Naghmeh now has control of all assets. I haven’t found anything relating to how this works in a petition for legal separation, but information from the Idaho Courts website indicates that community property principles will be applied in a divorce proceeding, and that judges will generally divide community property equally. It is also indicated that some, though not all, Courts will issue temporary orders upon the filing of a divorce. Why would we suppose that, in Courts where temporary orders are granted, the mere filing of either divorce or separation proceedings would result in the filing spouse being given complete control of all assets–assets to which the parties are equally entitled?
Once again, Anonymous needs to substantiate his assertions. But we must be careful. To ask him to do so will be interpreted by him as a bitter denunciation.
J’accuse!
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If you read her statement closely, it appears that Saeed has recently been trying to manipulate his wife to say certain things and do certain actions that may put him in a particular light when he is released. He may have tried to manipulate her through calls, letters or intermediaries to present a false story of their lives when he returns.
Her personal e-mails to her group may have been based on things she was being pressured to do or say as Saeed was getting closer to release. She was probably trying to gather personal support to help her in the event that she would be “punished” by him if she didn’t get with the program when he returned. Just a thought.
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Empath, JDG, Anonymous, and feministhater are among the worst misogynists in the manosphere. They tend congregate in that cesspool of psychopathic misogyny known as Dalrock, where they spew their sick views daily. Dropping a banhammer on them is the reasonable thing to do.
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Boy, oh, boy. This topic has really brought out some… interesting folks. On The Wartburg Watch, there are guys derailing the topic into bizarre scriptural minutiae. Here, it’s been the invasion of the MRAs.
Looks like you and the Deebs have struck a nerve, JA. Keep it up.
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Dear Anonymous,
I’m sorry, but I have to agree with BTDT here. Why exactly do the coordinates matter? Why should it be any more difficult to view X-rated stuff there than anywhere else?
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@Daisy
Very likely. iPhones easily connect to VPNs which can bypass any government blocking. That’s what 69.3 percent of the Iranian youth do to bypass social media blocking.
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Don’t know if anyone has commented on this, but it is striking how Saeed says that Naghmeh “filed a domestic relations case.” As if abuse was just “relations” like any others.
Typical for abusers minimization and denial.
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Dear SnowflakesAbound,
Thank you so much for sharing your story, as heartbreaking as it is. I hope you’ll find much, much more healing in the years to come.
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Dana, that’s exactly what I thought, too.
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Dear Embracing Reality,
Be careful, your melodrama is showing. 😉 (Some of Anonymous’ comments are creeping in the same direction.)
Statements like these remind me of Robert Morris’ overblown defence of Mark Driscoll — accusing critics of trying to “crucify” him. As far as I can tell, no one wanted Driscoll executed, just kept out of the pulpit.
Similarly, I can’t see anyone screaming for Saeed’s head, either on a platter or in a noose. We just want him to come clean about whatever he’s done to his wife (no matter how long ago), to stay off of stages and podiums, and to work on his own problems before he tries to solve the problems of the world.
Yes, many of us are inclined to believe Naghmeh. She has lots to lose and very little to gain in all of this. And Jeff Crippen and others familiar with abuse dynamics don’t think that Saeed’s statement passes the smell test. They know their stuff — some of them because they’ve lived through it.
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@Bee
I wondered if someone linked JA’s article on Dalrock. He’s been bashing Naghmeh since the story came out.
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@Gary W – cute. You suggest I am being paid by Saeed because why else would I seek to defend him and then assert that I must be overreacting.
‘Anonymous needs to answer this question.’ Really, not so much, you could call any attorney in Ada County and they could walk you through it or you could read up on Idaho Statutes. Multiple TRO’s were filed, one for property the other for children. The disposition of property will remain the same as it was on the day of filing – if you don’t know how those facts equal her having the house (bought by charity and titled in her name only) and the bank accounts then I don’t know what to tell you.
The back and forth is really useless since the points are ignored and shifted.
You’re going to have to find a new ball of yarn.
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@Serving Kids in Japan It is about cellular network access, have you ever tried to watch Amazon Prime along I-70 in Nebraska? It’s a minor point and not worth debating, but it is an easier one to divert than the other points which is why it was selected.
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_We Hunted the Mammoth_
A snippet from the site’s “About” page:
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“Anonymous needs to answer this question”
That stuck out at me because it is so contrary to anything I have ever heard or seen concerning the reach of restraining orders. It seems almost planted as if folks would believe the TRO she filed gave her the ability to transfer all their assets to what…someone/somewhere else…. where he could not access it?
Seriously?
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So Anonymous, you sure you work for a technology firm? :o)
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As a point of information, from the online details about what was filed January 26, 2016, the technical term Idaho uses for the subtype of court case filed is “Domestic Relations.” The initial filing includes:
.
[TRO = Temporary Restraining Order.]
MODERATOR NOTE: First paragraph edited to clarify, and additional point added to list so it includes all items from 01-26-2016 noted on the public records of the court case.
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“Multiple TRO’s were filed, one for property the other for children. The disposition of property will remain the same as it was on the day of filing – if you don’t know how those facts equal her having the house (bought by charity and titled in her name only) and the bank accounts then I don’t know what to tell you.”
Can you link to these TRO’s? You seem to have details on them you found somewhere.
I don’t know if Idaho is different but I know that here a married woman can have a house in her name ONLY then when/if they divorce that asset has to be counted as community property and she has to buy him out to keep it! (Unless there is a prenup).
The TRO’s do not just give her a house and the kid, no questions asked. It is meant to stop preemptive actions that could harm her financially and as a mother. I totally agree with her TRO about not taking the kids out of state..
.
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Have you? I-70 doesn’t run through Nebraska. 🙂 And how can you compare a remote stretch of highway to the largest city and urban area of Iran, the second largest city in Western Asia, and the 3rd largest in the Middle East? Tehran probably has the best cellular service in Iran as do most major metropolitan cities.
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Thanks, Brad.
Here’s a new article from Washington Post on the case. So help me, I will be getting a new post up today. Another tough term at school and those deadlines seem to want to interfere with blogging. What’s up with that?!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/02/01/the-strange-case-of-the-pastor-released-from-iran-and-his-wifes-abuse-allegations/?postshare=5501454328260523&tid=ss_tw
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FOR LISTING OF THE 2016 “DOMESTIC RELATIONS” COURT CASE:
.
Step #1. Link to the IDAHO REPOSITORY for court cases:
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https://www.idcourts.us/repository/start.do
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Step #2. That page gives you important background information about the Idaho Repository, how it works, what details are available, etc. On the left-hand side of that page, click on NAME SEARCH. That will take you to this page:
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https://www.idcourts.us/repository/partySearch.do
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Step #3. Fill in names [Saeed Abedini] or [Naghmeh Panahi] and hit ENTER.
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Step #4. Then you have to enter in text to prove you’re not a robot, and it will take you to the page with cases for the person you’re searching for.
Step #5. The most current case is at the top of the page. Click on the option for “Case History with ROAs” in order to have the line-items listed.
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FOR LISTING OF THE 2007 “DOMESTIC ASSAULT” COURT CASE:
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Use the same first 2 steps as above. Then in step #3, NAME SEARCH, fill in [Saeed Abedinigalangashi].
.
MODERATOR NOTE: Edited to include additional information about the main Idaho Repository page.
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Regarding the MRA/Manosphere types:
These guys always struck me as having been burned REAL bad by a woman in their past and are taking it out on anything and everything without a Y Chromosome.
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I have long maintained that a Male Supremacist culture will feel a strong pull in the direction of male homosexuality. After all, if women are nothing more than domestic livestock, how else can you have sex with another PERSON?
As radio-talk hose Dennis Prager once put it in an online essay (“Why Judaism Rejected Homosexuality”), the (pre-Torah) distinction is between Penetrator and Penetrated, not Man and Woman. (With all the vibes of a prison rape or similar ANIMAL Forced Dominance Display.)
Yet a Male Supremacist culture will also have a strong Homosexuality Taboo. As one snark put it “Homophobia: The fear another stronger Man will do to you what you do to a Woman.” Or the prison rape term “Make a Woman (i.e. the Penetrated) out of him.” (Again, ANIMAL Forced Dominance.)
The usual way out of this paradox is to put all the onus for perversion on the powerless Penetrated, glorifying the Penetrator as a Real Man, using other weaker men as though they were Women. It all comes down to POWER. In the words of Lord Voldemort, “There is only POWER — and those who are too Weak to have it.”
And when you add pedophilia into the mix… There have been studies that same-sex pedos self-identify as straight (and as far as they can test, arousal studies seem to bear that out). Like children don’t really count. And the same studies theorize that it is the non-masculine characteristics of children (high-pitched voice, smooth skin, lack of secondary sexual characteristics such as beards) that pedos key on.
Put the two together and things get REAL ugly.
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Hug, you must have come across the same research I did on extreme patriarchal cultures. The key to all this is the patriarchal caste system where powerless women are responsible for male lust and other social ills. The relationship between men and women were not based at all upon love but on her job to breed. This leads to male entitlement which is were the homosexual piece comes in. It is a domination thing. And yes, the female is a dog which makes the lesser male an actual person.
I was astonished at how closely the men in Afghanistan reflected this. A friend of mine who had to get many tribal chief permissions (and pay off) to set up medical clinics said the whole pedophilia thing with young boys was so obvious they fooled no one. But no one said a word.
So when we see similar verbiage, alarm bells go off. That is one reason I could not check Doug Phillips out too much. He sounded a lot like what I had read. These MRA guys seem similar and why I see them as a joke.
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Oh, ”Embracing reality” (ha ha) is a regular at Dalrock’s, too.
Yes, that’s where they are coming from.
Dalrock wrote a series of scurrilous posts about Naghmeh, making her the latest addition to his Evil Women Destroying The World collection, which is the real theme of his blog.
These folks are seriously disturbed, so engage at your own risk.
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And yes, the link to this piece was posted on Dalrock, causing the usual flare-ups of the reality distortion field there.
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Actually, Lydia, with me it started out with a historical novel I read in my teens: Goat Song by Frank Yerby, set in Sparta and Athens during the Peloponnesian Wars. And Yerby went into both the male homosexuality and status of women in classical Greek culture.
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I just posted this at the W-W blog:
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I’ve seen Franklin Graham come up a time or two in some of these discussions … in relation to the story about Naghmeh, so I thought this may be of interest to some of you:
Franklin Graham wants to be the next Billy Graham. He’s not even close (Slate)
I sort of agree with Franklin Graham to a point on some issues, but I don’t agree with some of his proposed solutions and/or how he conveys his disagreement.
Snippets:
~~~~
… But Franklin’s bombastic extremism is markedly different from his father’s diplomatic spirituality.
… Franklin Graham is a caricature of his father, not his successor.
…Small-time pastors too often make headlines for spouting offensive nonsense, even when few people other than outraged progressives are listening to them. But Graham is no strip-mall lunatic leading a congregation of 15. He has 3.3 million followers on Facebook, and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association says he has preached to 7 million people since 1989. Several of his recent Decision America events have drawn thousands of people. He’s the head of two large evangelical organizations, where he draws a combined salary of $880,000.
… As Billy has reclined from public view, the statements he issues have begun to sound more and more like his son.
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HUG, I read all of Frank Yerby’s novels in my teens! Still have them in fact. Are we kindred spirits?
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Bee said:
These sound kind of like these misogynists, though I don’t know if they’d go as far as this guy:
_US ‘make rape legal’ group plans worldwide anti-woman event in 43 countries_ (Raw Story link)
What charming, well-adjusted men! /sarcasm
Some snippets:
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
On a website advertising the “Return of the Kings” event, self-styled “pick up artist” Daryush “Roosh V” Valizadeh has encouraged his misogynist supporters to “come out of the shadows and not have to hide behind a computer screen for fear of retaliation,” The National reported.
…Women and the LGBT community have been banned from attending the meetings.
Valizadeh argued on his blog last year that rape should be legal on private property.
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@Bee
Found it. Boy, didn’t they get their panties in a bunch? 🙂
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And yes, the link to this piece was posted on Dal rock
I wonder if Dalrock will admit that he was wrong about Naghmeh now that Saeed’s criminal record for past abuse has come to light. She really is an amazingly kind woman. Despite the fact that her husband abused her, she advocated for his release from prison. She stopped advocating for him when it became clear that he would be released and only then did she take steps to protect herself from him. Dalrock and his supporters should be ashamed for the way that they attacked her reputation in those ugly blog posts and comments.
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Waving warm greetings to the Dalrock visitors. Feel free to send me your abuse stories. And FTR, I actually am aware that sometimes it is a wife who is the abuser in a marriage. I’ve never been a man hater. I’m an abuse hater. Hope that’s settled now.
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@Marsha:
The only two I remember reading all the way through were Saracen Blade and Goat Song. (And Goat Song was a real eye-opener for an early-teen whose exposure to Ancient Greece up until then had been edited versions of Greek Mythology.) I think I read a little of his novel on the fall of Constantinople, but that’s all I remember.
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@Daisy:
Anyone got Parker and Stone on speed-dial?
Because THAT sounds like something out of South Park.
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Re: panties in a bunch
Right? 🙂
Re: Roosh
Yes, that’s of his (Roosh’s) many claims to, um, fame. Dalrock comes from the same “tradition”, that is PUA. Just a couple of years ago, before he found religion and started to dress the dehumanizing mindset of PUA in the ever-so-accommodating language of Christianity, he was one of that crowd. Still is. Obviously.
Re: HUG’s observation that the MRA types must have been burned by women
Most of them claim to have been. A great number of them are middle aged divorced life fiascos who attribute their misery to women. But it is immediately apparent that these are men whom no normal woman would want (thus their divorce histories).
There are also some young dudes there, with no relationship history but with the same problems: massive sexual entitlement, obsession with dominance and control (almost always a psychopathic trait), and fear and contempt for women whom they blame for their lonely existence.
The manosphere is a repository of the worst male pathology and as such it is educational. It shows women what some men can be like and thus teaches them what to avoid at all costs (should they need that lesson).
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Just a couple of comments. First of all, there are any number of sexual deviancies known among strict Muslims; in Shi’a cultures, there is actually a provision for “temporary marriage” that is pretty much prostitution, and it’s worth noting that sometimes the Islamic approach to sexual sin seems to be (e.g. “honor killings”) to brutalize the victim again. So I guess I should not be terribly surprised that a hellhole in Iran might have rampant porn. But, I confess, I was.
I’m going to bet that if I’d grown up in such a society, or had been imprisoned in such a society, I’d have gotten pretty messed up myself. Any sanity would be a gift from God, no?
Back to the case, given that Mrs. Abedini has left the door open to reconciliation, I guess I’ll pray that they get some wise counsel.
One final note; I smile every time someone rails on “feminists” as a class, because apart from Marsha’s definition, there are almost as many different kinds of feminists as Baptists. Railing on “feminists” as a monolithic class is a degree of imprecision that shows that a person really doesn’t understand feminist movements at all. I’ve discussed what I read in Ms. in the 1980s (my mom subscribed for a while, I read about anything) with people, and it’s amazing what kind of things have changed in mainstream and fringe feminist thought.
You might infer that I don’t understand it terribly well either, and I think you just might have a point. :^)
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One other note; Roosh is half Iranian, I believe. Born in the U.S. of Persian and Armenian parents, for what it’s worth.
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The guy’s face looks like some sort of Middle Eastern Rogue’s Gallery. Like something you’d expect to see on a Wanted poster.
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I was distracted yesterday evening, and didn’t finish reading to the end of the article I quoted. It lays to rest the question of whether prisoners in Evin or other Iranian prisons view porn on smartphones.
At one time Saeed was in Ward 209 which is “porn-free,” but was subsequently moved to Ward 350 in January, 2013 and then to Rajai Shahr Prison in Nov. 2013. In Rajai Shahr he stayed in Wards 3 and 4.
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Oh, and here’s the link to the article again. I meant to include it.
https://en.iranwire.com/features/6932/
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What is the matter with these misogynistic men? Did their mothers not love them? Or did their fathers not allow them to love their mothers and also retain their self-respect? It’s a terrible thing to be cut off from love and nurturing, it fills one with rage that is ever looking for an outlet. That rage tends to be pointed towards the innocent (the safe target), not the guilty.
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Billy Graham’s success was largely an accident of time and place in American history. Although the elder Graham knew how to pack an auditorium in his heyday, he was more anti-communist crusader than evangelist.
Franklin Graham is theological train wreck waiting to happen.
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Wow, all the wows.
He made it sound as if poor Nagmeh cracked under the strain and said things about him she really didn’t mean. Notice how it makes her look delusional and him look like the good guy, at this point.
It’s just appalling and men should be held accountable for every positive word they say about their “roles”. They claim to be protectors, providers and leaders. Live up to your words or Shut up, that’s all I have to say.
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Roosh lives in his mother’s basement! It’s almost like a caricature, but’s it’s for real.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3432531/Pictured-pick-artist-center-international-pro-rape-storm-t-shirt-shorts-door-mother-s-home-lives-basement.html
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Much like the Cold War, extremists on both sides of this battle of the sexes feed off of each other’s insane rhetoric. In the end, the misandrists and the misogynists will settle nothing beyond the rather obvious facts that they don’t like each other very much, take themselves far too seriously, and provide media moguls with a comfortable merely for documenting their antics. Once one lives long enough, it all become quite entertaining.
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Idaho Statesman article of February 4, 2016, by John Sowell: “Abedini domestic violence incident in 2007 triggered by laptop argument.”
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/community/boise/article58590133.html
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And it’s likely Roosh (the douche- DM) will be living in his Mother’s basement for many years to come.
Ha
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SO, you’re calling ‘your hero’ a liar??
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