Jill Dillard and Jessa Seewald of the 19 Kids and Counting Duggar family has new series on TLC
The Duggars of TLC’s 19 Kids and Counting are back on TLC in a 3-part series called, Jill & Jessa: Counting On. Looking through the preview below and a couple of others, it doesn’t seem to be just about Jill and Jessa.
In the previews, we hear from Jill and Jessa, as well as several other siblings, mostly talking about the shock of discovering that their older brother, Josh Duggar, had a double life – one in which he portrayed to be a godly Christian, the other, an adulterer who paid to have sex with two adult film stars. This new information came out after it was discovered that Josh Duggar had created two Ashley Madison accounts.
In the previews, we do see shots of Michelle Duggar, the matriarch of the family, but it will remain to be seen if Michelle or father, JimBob, contribute to these shows.
The Duggars still have a very large following; however, several sponsors backed out and no longer support the show. It will be interesting to see how popular this series is, and if TLC continues with more Duggar shows.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
I am sure Jim Bob has his hand in this somewhere. If there’s money to be made, he’ll be there, even if only behind the scenes.
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I’ve never followed the Duggars, although I personally know two moms (both wives of pastors) from my former church (where the anti-ex-husband still attends) who rave about the Duggars. I first learned about the Duggars through these moms and watched a few DVDs of theirs in their homes. Looking at this clip in the post, I was reminded of why I never watched any more after seeing it in their home. It’s saccharine sweet – even in the midst of ‘trial.’ It’s so soap opera-like, with the tears and ambulance at the end and drama. It’s a show. I’m not saying that these people aren’t hurting, but they’re selling any pain right alongside the image they’re selling. I’m not buying.
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I never watched the on going 19 kids program and don’t intend to start now. I’ll stick with the Hallmark channel.
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Last sentence spoken in the video pretty much describes my thoughts on the whole thing-
“It’s just like a bad dream like…like,,,how could this happen?”
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Watching the preview, I felt sad. Most likely the justification for making the program was to share the Gospel and show the family holding on to faith in the midst of this trial, but what was striking me most was, that now their pain is being marketed for entertainment.
I’m sure many people will watch as the marketing has directly tied the broadcast to Josh Duggar’s behavior, but it’s time for this family to be out of the spotlight. It’s time for them to stop calling things holy that are not. This show is about money and influence. Let these children heal in private. My hope is that all of them will get real help, but sadly, I don’t expect they will.
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After all the years that these kids have been in the public spotlight, and with the added pressure of dealing with what Josh has done, you would think that they would be ready to live a quiet life. Like any other celebrity, this is how they have earned their living and I guess it’s too difficult to walk away from the income. At least that’s the only reason why I can think why they would continue to place their (scripted) lives in front of the camera.
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Kathi, unfortunately, there is no money in a quiet life.
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I think public notoriety is thrilling to some people. They feel famous and so, they like it. Judging by the video, there’s also drama in it, even if trumped up – and some folks thrive on drama (and being the center of it) as well.
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My kids loved to watch the show. I think part of the reason is because of the many things in common: Christian, large family (7 kids), homeschoolers. I can see my older kids wanting to watch because they are peers – and also out of curiosity – what’s going to happen with this family. I think it will be popular because of their large fan base who wants to know “the rest of the story.” But on the whole, I think once they had the first incident with Josh sexually abusing when he was a teen, they should never have gone on tv.
I absolutely believe that JimBob and Michelle felt 19 Kids and Counting was a ministry for them. This was something the whole family could do. That’s huge in the Homeschool Movement.
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I honestly don’t get this, back when I was full time in the industry, and it is an industry nothing more, I had these issues. Becoming an instant dad at 21 or so when my sister left and I stayed the course so to speak until now and never, by my nephew’s recollection did I let him down one time. Dealing with that other issue, they discuss and everyone gets all crying about. Drugs suicides attempted murders assault house ransacked by the cops etc. If I ever even hinted at bringing this stuff up in the faith community it was tantamount to worshipping satan or even worse. These guys plaster it all over tv and milk it for all its worth and make a killing off it. I spent decades reconciling with my family at great personal cost and from the faith community, I did it because I want attention, even though I rarely if ever mentioned it usually only when asked several times and pinned in a corner. I mean I faced my own mortality twice before I even turned seven and still have nightmares because of it but I fought on and all I was ever given from the faith community is what a piece of human filth I am and basically God hates me, which I am fine with at least I know where He is coming from.
I mean if you are famous you can live in this alternative world. My last transgression was to think science had some answers that fundamentalist religion does not for that I don’t love Jesus, I am a Romans 1 mutant suppressing the truth of God along with Richard Dawkins darwin etc all naked dancing around the Asherah pole. I mean I see preachers parading their families around like so many little trophies and discussing how they suffer and struggle for the kingdom while pulling in 100+k a year and towing the party line they know full well is crap. I mean they consider Ken Ham an authority and are proud of it then dispense their ideology to the rest of us from on high. I got to the point where outside of here and two other blogs I never share anything with anyone about anything for the most part. I lost my best friend because I spoke up and got booted from ministry for trying to bring up some issues. The evangelical faith in many ways just cant take criticism like it can dish it out. Frankly, I just got tired of being gutted like a dead fish on Friday.
I am using a pseudonym because I am a coward which is not directed at anyone else using one. Just how I often feel.
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Gotta love how quickly they are willing to throw Josh under the bus to save the family business. If they really loved the guy, they would say, he’s a dbag, but he’s our brother, so please leave us alone. But nooooo. Let’s bottle up Anna’s sweet tears and sell them to put some cash in Jill and Jessa’s pocket.
Jessa has to be the most self-centered 19 or 20 something I have ever seen on television, and I’ve watched the Kardashians. Her poor husband is uneducated with no trade to support the family, and they are going to ride this gravy train for a while, and end up broke and middle aged with no marketable skills other than knowing how to take a good selfie. The Dillards, on the other hand, think they can be full time missionaries, learn a language fluently, fly back and forth, and star on a reality television show. That’s absurd. I lived for years in a foreign country as a pastor, and learning language is a full time job not to be shared with being a TV star. They will wash out and be “called by the Lord” to come home soon. Just watch.
I love how they kept saying, “we’re not perfect and never said we were.” Horse manure! The whole thing took off because they had the perfect solutions to procreating and protecting kids by homeschooling, modesty, and limited access to TV and the internet. That turned into a series, books, mother of the year awards, and parenting conferences, telling everyone else how to be “perfect” too.
Gothardism is false teaching, and this is evil! This family is ever bit as guilty as The Wizard of Oz (Bill Gothard), himself. “You mean I can make an extra dollar if I interview and talk about how my brother molested me? Sign me up.” Sickening!
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Question: Is the Pioneer Woman a Gothardite? She has the same ugly hairstyle.
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No, I don’t think so.
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Cha-Ching!
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@incogneto: am so sorry for your pain. I hope you don’t mind me saying it but the God of my understanding does not hate you, but loves you dearly and intimately exactly where you are. hugs. from lynn
(back to lurking)
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The way I see this situation:
It’s not unexpected. We shouldn’t be surprised. Josh is a man like many a man before him. Most men I know (Christians included!) have had at some point a dirty little porn secret.
I liken this secret to women envying other women, or obsessing over $1000 handbags or anything else which we do not need in life.
Sin.
Grade it if you will.
It’s all been dealt with 2000 years ago and those of us ‘in the know’ who believe in Christ have his resurrection as our HOPE from the crappiness of our earthly frailness.
“How could this happen?”
Girls.
Welcome to the Good News of Jesus Christ.
He came not for the righteous (you guys).
He came for sinners. (Josh).
My hope:
The Duggar kids will get an awakening over the saving power of God, like never before.
Because thus far all they seem to have received is an absolute GUTFUL of gothardeque RELIGION.
Now that’s dirty.
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This was not just a “dirty little porn secret”. This was the molestation of 5 girls and then all the rest. I am sickened when I hear Christians state that most men could go there (yes, it’s been said to me repeatedly). What a misanthropic view. If Josh Duggar’s behavior is an example of most men, then God help us all!
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It wasn’t just a porn stash with Josh, he was also feeling his sisters up…
I’ve never watched the show, seen bits and pieces which impressed me as glurge. It doesn’t appeal to me, but then I feel the same about all the phony ‘reality’ tv.
My prediction: someday, one of them is going to write a book on what the real inside story was and that will be a seller.
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You are right. I’m not seeking to minimise his actions.
I’m simply making a point that what he did was sinful.
And we are all guilty of it.
I don’t know if you are believers in Jesus or not.
I am. And whilst I wouldn’t let him babysit my daughter, it isn’t my responsibility to condemn him.
He did something gross.
I’ve done plenty of gross things in my time.
Stone throwing is probably the grossest of them all.
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There are actually a lot worse things than metaphorical stone throwing and yes, you are minimizing the abuse of these girls.
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Anonymous…
What do you think we should do with Josh Duggar?
What would you do if Josh were standing in front of you?
What is your course of action?
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This is where I have to say that metaphorical stone throwing is in order. Having been a child/young girl who was molested repeatedly, I find the hiding of JD’s sins as a minor and going unpunished another abuse of those 5 young ladies. He has been told, without words, that he is allowed and entitled to do whatever sinful act that he wishes and any woman in his life is to forgive and look at him with big eyes and an even bigger smile. He is far from being the only one out there being told the same thing by the silence that these and other young girls were told to keep. I know the feeling of being silenced and I hope one day they will actually come out of the coma.
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Brenda R,
Amen. This whole white-washing with the words, “We never said we were perfect” (a la “nobody’s perfect”) is turning a blind eye to sin. It totally glosses over the importance of repentance. What was the message the disciples were to preach? REPENT and believe. I don’t hear any Duggar speak of repentance or see them putting themselves out of the limelight to go and get in the dirty trenches laboring for the Lord. Seems more glitter and sparkle than anything else. I’d have a lot more respect for the family if someone came out and said, “Look, I’m not going to participate in the show because we have real work to do as a family and some repenting of our own to do, which isn’t entertainment. It’s also deeply personal, so… I’m bowing out. I won’t play along.
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lifewithporpoise,
When you write that JD sinned, but we all sinned – that absolutely minimizes what he did. It’s “sin-leveling” – equating it all and thereby minimizing it.
First of all, he’s a public figure (thanks to his parents) and one representing himself to be a Christian. He drags the name of the Lord in the mud when he himself just carries on with his masquerade – more than just molesting his sisters (which is bad enough), but setting up two Ashley Madison accounts and engaging in adultery. I’d say at that point it’s high time for the family to pull the plug on the entertainment and masquerade ball. But they didn’t. So to me, it’s rather obvious what the motivation is – because it sure ain’t uplifting the name and work of Jesus Christ.
You asked Anonymous what “we should do with Josh Duggar”? I’ll answer. Call him out the way we are on this board. Call out the family in posts like Julie Anne has done. Don’t remain silent as Christians or minimize his sin as something “we all do.” No one here is saying (about himself or herself) that he or she is perfect. Even pointing out that “we’re all sinners” assumes we don’t know that. We do, but that’s not the purpose of this post. It’s to call out sin in the Christian community that’s parading around as if it is righteous. Allowing that to continue is tantamount to calling good evil and evil good. It also allows evil to flourish.
If Josh were standing in front of me, I would treat him kindly, but I doubt I’d want to speak with him for very long. That’s not wrong of me. If he wanted to speak with me longer, I daresay I’d question his motives based on his secret past life, which is his own fault – and not unwise of me to want to keep contact limited, minimal, or not at all. He needs to be addressing his wife with these issues – not me. But that’s all hypothetical and not reality.
Course of action? Turn to Scripture, seek the truth and accurate exegesis, get one’s own relationship with God straight, and set out to seek what He would have you do – preferably not in the public eye. Do something that doesn’t serve self.
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What should have been done with Josh? He should have been arrested and subjected to the juvenile justice system. He should have received therapy from a qualified secular therapist specializing in treating sex offenders. This last, above all else.
Now? The statute of limitations precludes arrest for the juvenile offenses. He should be arrested for abusing the prostitutes he hired who only agreed to sex and not physical abuse. And he should receive therapy from a qualified secular therapist.
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Sin leveling is dangerous. I am a sinner. So was Ted Bundy. The difference is that society does not need to be protected from me or any of us here. We aren’t going to steal from or molest or assault or murder others. Now of course I won’t judge Bundy’s fate. I have no way of knowing whether he genuinely repented before his execution. But I can certainly, as a member of society, judge his actions, as determined by a jury of his peers and later by his own confession, to be morally reprehensible and worthy of his never being allowed outside of a prison again. Society must also be protected from murders and from sex offenders.
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From this neck of the woods, I have never heard of the Duggars until their names became popular in the blogosphere. I was, in my former sinful state, a committed follower, believer, and reviling debater of politics, which is regarded in my former church system, as a god above all gods.
Don’t cha know folks, the jesus of many churches is ‘conservative, republican, and favors the right wing of politics far more than any other political party or governmental system; all those opposed to this political/religious system are labeled as servants of satan.’ And the Duggar family, with their important conservative political affiliations sparked my curiosity in researching exactly who this family is and the ‘family values’ they promote. The term “family values” is still a huge buzz phrase in my former church, where the sexually perverted secrets of the pastor and leadership (conservative and republican in nature) are highly respected and esteemed all the while pointing out the ‘sins, sins, and more sins’ of the lowly pew warmers.
SIN LEVELING: definition from one (that would be me, no less) who has sought freedom in the Jesus of our Scriptures, our LORD and SAVIOR, as opposed to the jesus of religion and politics: The sins of the pastor/clergy system/leadership system are far less important, and out of respect/honor for their ‘offices’, should be kept confidential/secret, and as god’s appointed leaders, all should have MORE mercy and grace for their sins for they are after all, more special than the rest of us, especially when compared to the loathsome sins of the lowly congregation.
I know from painful personal experience, what happens to the souls of men and women when we place people on that pedestal of idolatry, over the One Who humbly desires our worship, Jesus. So incredibly thankful He delivered me out that false religious/poisonous political mess. To Him be the Glory.
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There are so many parts of the Bible that most ‘churches’ prefer to ignore. These verses teach us much about what God intended to happen with both ‘ongoing’ sin and gross immorality. The verses say ‘expose’ the deeds of darkness, publically rebuke Elders, Paul said — I was not afraid to publically rebuke Peter, Tell it to the church etc. All of these things express the need to have a judgment call made by mature Christians. Never in the Bible does it point to oppressing victims and telling them to shut up or to not speak of these horrible happenings or covering them up. It just never even points in that direction. So how did we come so far away from the processes that the Bible says will protect the flock and also hold others accountable so the name of CHrist is NOT dragged through the mud.
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lifewithporpoise,
You asked me three questions and I’m going to answer hypothetically as if Josh (or someone committing the same crimes and sins) were in my church community and I had some influence on his life.
“What do you think we should do with Josh Duggar?”
If he were in my church, I would be advocating for his removal from all ministry and for him to receive professional, expert help. It should take YEARS for him to be restored to any kind of ministry. I would offer help to his wife and children and sisters, all of them his victims and the proper recipients of the church’s grace and mercy. I would also advocate that the whole family get off the stage and heal quietly.
“What would you do if Josh were standing in front of you?”
I would treat him kindly as I try to with everyone, but I wouldn’t offer a form of grace that communicates that because he has cried and said he’s sorry, he’s in any way trustworthy and earned a pass on consequences. I would expect that if he’s truly repentant it would be seen in his behavior over time and that he would not continue lying and covering up a secret life of betraying his family when he was crying on television about his “youthful mistakes” aka the molestation of 5 young girls.
“What is your course of action?”
My course of action is to continue doing exactly what I am doing. There is an epidemic of sexual and domestic abuse in the church and it’s spreading because the church has provided the perfect environment for it to flourish. Weak grace that says to both victims and perpetrators, “We’ve all sinned, so let’s just move past this in forgiveness and forget it happened,” is not the cure for this terrible disease that’s devastating lives in the Body of Christ, but is a demonic placebo that is actually allowing evil to multiply. I will continue standing with the victims of abuse and supporting them; and I will continue demanding that the “nice Christian guy (or gal)” who sexually or physically abuses be allowed to experience the true consequences of his actions and be restored only when he shows the fruit of repentance, not just the tears of sorrow.
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Bingo THIS and shout it from the rooftops: “There is an epidemic of sexual and domestic abuse in the church and it’s spreading because the church has provided the perfect environment for it to flourish.”
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Sadly, I have walked the gothardesque life and wasted my children’s childhood. I do praise the Lord for freeing us from the cult. I have known of the Duggars for years, attending many conferences with them. Like many families, we drank the gothardesque poison and now have the fruit to deal with in our tattered lives. Meanwhile old Bill begins a new ministry at 80. Still more families wanting to raise children to be mighty in spirit will follow mindlessly. My shame and sorrow are under the blood and I have received forgiveness from my kids. The Duggars entered the show as a ministry as we were taught God would shine a light on us, but money corrupts. How sad.
“Because thus far all they seem to have received is an absolute GUTFUL of gothardeque RELIGION.”
There but for the grace of God, go I.
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Today I binged on the TV show: Say Yes To The Dress. I had to turn the channel every time the commercial for the show came on. I need to find it in my heart to remember that Jill & Jessa have been indoctrinated by the Gothard cult that their parents raised them in.
My initial response listening to them I wanted to puke, but, since I have a touch of the flu, maybe it was the bug.
My second response was shut the hell up, go away, be quiet, stop making bank to support your life styles. And then it dawned on me to remember what I once believed, how I once went through the red book from hell training, and how life kept bringing it on & on till I got out of that twisted, corrupt world.
It will be interesting to see where life takes these girls & where they will be when they are my age. Praying that they wake up, no matter how much it disrupts & hurts.
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@BrendaR:
“I kill my own mother and they still cheer me!”
— Caesar Nero, in Paul Maier’s historical novel Flames of Rome
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@Deb:
With his Commodore Messengers Organization of young fresh unspoiled teenage Interns. (In denim jumpers with Long Curly Hair instead of Elron’s hot pants and itsy-bitsy tank tops.)
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@gm370:
In the words of the Prophet Steve Taylor:
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Shy1 said:
“I’ve never watched the show, seen bits and pieces which impressed me as glurge.”
I had to look that word up. Usually it refers to sentimental fluff spread via email, but I like it and will have to add it to my vocabulary.
“My prediction: someday, one of them is going to write a book on what the real inside story was and that will be a seller.”
Oh, at least one of them. Maybe more than one.
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I watched most of the show last night with my kids. It was very difficult to watch probably 6 kids tell about how Josh had affected them. The most painful one for me to watch was when one of his brothers said that he had always looked up to Josh. He knew that his younger brothers looked up to him and he told Josh that he no longer looked up to him any more. He had tears in his eyes when he shared.
I also took note that in general, most of the kids/young adults described Josh’s sexual indiscretions as “incidents” or “situations.” I think one of them said adultery, but I don’t recall any use of the words: sex, sexual, abuse, incest. The words, situation and incident(s) are such generic words which can replace something positive or negative.
At least one of them addressed: how could this happen, in our home, with our beliefs/teachings. I wanted to scream back: it is because of your beliefs/teachings that made your home a fertile ground for sexual acting out which led to abuse, etc.
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Lifewithporpoise, to confuse literal and methaphoric stone throwing is a big theological error. The one is to kill, to believe you could exercise the punishment. The other is to keep dangerous people away from potential victims, to not let them get away with abusive behavior, but ask them to change.
As for his acts being the same as “obsessing over a handbag” no.
1) He molested 5 girls, the youngest about 5 years old. You cannot tell a bunch of people, at least some who actually was molested, that the molester’s secret is like their secret of desiring an expensive handbag. If you had respect for victims, you would never say that.
2) He cheated on his wife, and consequently lost his job for it. That is direct unfaithfulness (sin) and indirectly being unfaithful to his promise to take care of her. His sin has consequences for his family, to a degree far more serious than desiring a handbag.
3) He enjoyed porn. Porn is not 2 people enjoying intercourse – about 90% of popular porn today has verbal and physical violence towards women. Sorry to be crude, but porn watchers get off on violence – pain, insults, roughness – towards actual (usually young, naïve, poor) women. And porn actresses suffer more PTSD than soldiers, because of the nature of this industry. To love cruelty is against “love your neighbour as yourself” in a terrible way. Secretly desiring a handbag in an expensive store? No comparison to loving cruelty.
4) The porn actress who slept with him say she was battered. If so, it is more evidence of violence towards women.
I know, Jesus can forgive it as easily as He can forgive something else. But we don’t have to forget just because God forgave. And if the family still market themselves as having The Right Way of Life to Keep Girls Pure and Boys Behaved, we can point out that they cannot deliver the goods they promise.
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Hi Retha,
You are correct. Fiddling with little girls, viewing porn, being on an adultery website and cheating on your wife is not the same as coveting an overpriced handbag.
It is a million times worse and I am thankful I’ve never had to experience any of the above. I apologise for anyone who has been through that and was offended or upset by my comments.
I have a lot of fundamentalism still being weeded out of me and no doubt it will take some time.
Realistically… what would you all do if you were in AD’s position?
Would you stay or would you leave?
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I, like many others, had never heard of the Duggars till Josh Duggar’s sin of sexually abusing his sisters came out publicly in the media. As many have already attested, sin leveling is the modus operandi of Christians when sexual and domestic abuse are committed within their midst. This is one of the most damaging aspects of life within Evangelicalism. All sin is not the same. I will repeat: ALL SIN IS NOT THE SAME. I think Christians need to hammer that into their heads. Yes, Christ died for all sinners. But that is not the same as believing that all sin is the same. Some sin is so heinous that for those who commit such wicked deeds, the only solution is that they are locked up in prison for life and kept away from society. In my opinion, child molestation and abuse is such a sin. And that is being compassionate since our Lord said of these that “it would be better if a millstone were hung around their neck and they were cast into the sea.”
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Lifewithporpoise:
You said, “I have a lot of fundamentalism still being weeded out of me and no doubt it will take some time.”
It is a good thing that you recognize this. I, too, was once a member of a Christian cult that taught dangerous views about sin, women, abuse, marriage, etc. It took years to be healed of that cult baggage. Be patient with yourself, and if you have the resources, I would suggest you get proper counseling. And I don’t mean nouthetic counseling, which is the only kind Fundamentalists use. Rather, I mean professional counseling from licensed therapists who understand religious brain washing. With the proper counseling, you will be able to shed the damaging aspects of Fundamentalism while still being able to retain your faith in Christ.
To answer your question about A. Duggar. If I were her, I would have immediately separated from Josh. His unfaithful acts broke the marriage bond and I would not have been able to trust such a man. To live with him would have become unbearable. Next, I would have sought out people who could connect me with a counselor educated in the field of child sex abuse and domestic abuse. Sadly, I have an inkling that she was probably told to “stand by her man,” and that God was calling her to suffer in this way.
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Retha, I was struck by this,
3) He enjoyed porn. Porn is not 2 people enjoying intercourse – about 90% of popular porn today has verbal and physical violence towards women. Sorry to be crude, but porn watchers get off on violence – pain, insults, roughness – towards actual (usually young, naïve, poor) women. And porn actresses suffer more PTSD than soldiers, because of the nature of this industry. To love cruelty is against “love your neighbour as yourself” in a terrible way. Secretly desiring a handbag in an expensive store? No comparison to loving cruelty.
You have described my impression of JD Hall’s attitude towards that other pastor’s wife. He used verbal violence in his tweets.
“Shut her up”
“Point her mouth in another direction”
“Control your wife.”
I couldn’t help envisioning “the perfect wife” according to the nature of JD Hall’s tweets. Barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen, with duct tape plastered across the lower half of her face.
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lifewithporpoise said, Realistically… what would you all do if you were in AD’s position?
Would you stay or would you leave?
You know, I’m still weeding out a lot from going to a patriarchal church for two decades. So I feel ya.
I’d like to think, if I were AD, I would leave. She has a brother (not in the church) who has offered to take her and her kids in. She could get job training, for one thing, education not allowed to her before. She could set a good example for her children.
She certainly doesn’t need to stay with JD and have another baby to cement their relationship, a wish he has been quoted as expressing. Seems more like cement galoshes for Anna, than the promise of a better marriage, at least to me.
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The Duggars public response over Josh’s actions only harm victims of sexual abuse. With excuses like, “We are not perfect” and sin leveling, their viewers get the message that victims should “just get over it”. I wish they would consider the impact of their attitudes on victims outside their family.
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Retha, at least one of the porn stars he had sex with is suing him for abuse (rough sex).
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lifewithporpoise, I would see that he got secular licensed therapy from an expert who deals with sex/porn issues. If, after a test of time, there was little change, I would divorce him.
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Exactly, Darlene – the first step is immediate separation. If he lied about this, we don’t know to what extent his sex addiction is. Has it gone back to children? He had the opportunity to confess about the Ashley Madison accounts and sex with porn stars after the incest/sex abuse case became public. He chose to conceal it. He only confessed to the “affairs” after it became public. That is not promising.
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So true, refugee. How would a husband shut a wife up? How would he point her mouth in another direction? How would he control his wife? All of these seem to imply some physical action, don’t they? I’m must sick of this way to treat women.
Isn’t it interesting that the words that JD is saying to this wife are what we’d like to see from JD himself? We’d like him to quiet himself, talk elsewhere and to control himself.
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Ann, I think you have summed it up nicely.
I watched the show several times–i was fascinated with the idea that the way we were taught things should work looked like they actually worked for the Duggars! They did present themselves as models–the idea that their lives were being lived for the Lord and they could show the rest of us how to do it as their “ministry.”
But now, instead of any sort of “ministry” it looks like pure selfishness. They don’t seem to think about anyone but themselves. So sad.
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https://youtu.be/z7DCwNzHZQQ I always liked this lady her and Jack use to make me laugh until I would almost fall out of my chair, but I actually think they care to be honest.
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J. D. Hall is a troubled man. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he abuses his wife. If he is so bold to talk so nasty and aggressive to another man telling him to control his wife and shut her up, this is quite revealing about his views on marriage on the man’s role. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. What is disturbing is the support he has received from other Christian men in positions of influence such as James White, Phil Johnson, and Todd Friel. Where were these guys when he was bullying Ergun Caner’s son? Haven’t they noticed his bullying behavior for quite a while now? It seems they’ll support him until THEY become the recipients of his aggression and insults. Until then, they’ll keep hangin’ with him at the Reformation Montana fiasco.
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Lifewithporpoise,
You ask what should A. Duggar do? Her only priority right now should be herself and children. It is no longer her responsibility to preserve her marriage. The full weight of restoration and repentance rests solely with Josh Duggar. Her marriage was destroyed long before this came out in August. Josh left the marriage along time ago.
I would neither recommend that she stay or leave. However, I would hope she has all the information she needs to make the wisest decision. I’m not sure she’s getting good counsel. She in no way is sinning or disappointing JESUS by telling Josh to get lost. As far as I can tell, she fulfilled her commitment honestly.
Josh Duggar has proven repeatedly that he has no boundaries. That is a very difficult and painful burden to put on any woman. She will never know for sure he is protecting her. I hope she doesn’t spend years trying to drag his carcass into wholeness, because that is the responsibility of a “godly wife”. You cannot pull someone out of a prison of brokenness and sin. Instead, they pull you in. You can only walk out yourself and take your children with you.
Anna Duggar has a long, painful road ahead of her, whatever she chooses. My hope is that she has good, healthy, wise people supporting her who have no agenda, but her and her children’s well being. Unfortunately, broadcasting her pain on Jessa and Jenna’s spectacle causes me to doubt it.
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Darlene, Your comment from Dec 14 at 4:47 PM Amen and AMEN!!!!! Just say NO to sin leveling.
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Lifewithporpoise: I agree totally with Darlene’s comment @Dec 14 at 4:58 PM
I am divorced for Biblical and moral cause and after 2 years post divorce have began getting subtle grief from “leadership” in the church who think the xh is just lonely and not continuing to harass and stalk me. Anna D has every Biblical and moral right to a speedy divorce for good cause. Josh lied when he took his vows, he never meant them and while he is populating the world with his off spring he is diligently seeking out women to commit adultery and victimize them. The phrase that keeps coming to me for the past hour is this: “I am mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore.” Jesus turned over tables. Jesus told the Pharisees just where they were wrong. He left places where he was going to be mistreated and unheard. I believe Jesus loves Anna and her children far more than he does the bogus marriage that these cult flag bearing ‘c’hristians are feeding her. What a line of bull she is being fed and has been brain washed into believing. She is soooo worth so much more than to be yoked to continue looking up to this heathen with smiling face for the camera while she cries in her heart for the love she thought would be hers when she took her vows.
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refugee, So true. Having another baby will never make the relationship between a man and wife better. It only ties her down further. Josh and Anna already have 4 children. That hasn’t glued their marriage into the loving relationship it is meant to be. Josh is still entitled and a complete fraud. Anna will only be stomped on again. Josh’s issues will never be solved under the protection of this cult.
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Darlene,
You mentioned a few names (James White, Phil Johnson) that I daresay make me tremble at the thought that yet they too – though sound intellectual exegesis may be theirs – have callous hearts with respect to the issue of domestic abuse.
I say this because as a now divorced woman who found no comfort in the church of eight years in which I served alongside many women and studied in various Bible studies there – I rely on the Internet for the vast majority of my Biblical instruction (at least audio). So when I find men with sound exegesis, I cling to them. Then…. as is more and more frequently the case, I am saddened to discover that they have this hard, cold edge – notably in domestic abuse situations but also in others. (I stopped reading Pyromaniacs – a group blog with Phil Johnson – for that reason.)
Along a similar vein, my teen daughter and I are taking a class this week in Rape Aggression Defense (RAD). Last night the teacher (a cop) said the best thing you can do to support someone who comes to you stating she’s been raped is to believe her. He went on and on about how important this is – and I thought, “Yeah, that’s true with domestic abuse too.” So many times we are not believed and supported, and yet the best thing I’ve encountered is that someone believed me – and all who did have been on-line. Some in my local church believed me, but… they didn’t care enough to take a side or a position. They’d rather just stay quiet, use euphemisms, cover it up, and be happy that I left the church, blame me and embrace the abuser. I fear this will be the ongoing case with Anna Duggar until she finally, if ever, sees through the fog.
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“I hope she doesn’t spend years trying to drag his carcass into wholeness, because that is the responsibility of a “godly wife”. You cannot pull someone out of a prison of brokenness and sin. Instead, they pull you in.”
This. Right here. Only Christ can make him whole, via genuine repentance.
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Christians are fools to accept an adulterer, child sexual abuser and liar as a fellow believer. Christians are fools to keep watching a show that pretty much makes the faith look hypocritical to the rest of the world. The two girls are in a reality show about what?…the fact they had a baby? So what? The whole world can do that. Seems to me that they should go to school, get a REAL JOB, guys, and support your family…especially when you plan on having baby after baby. And keep your kids OUT of the limelight unless you want the radar on them when they fail. Prostituting your children for money via a reality show is NOT an OCCUPATION!!!!
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@Anonymous:
“Up on Cripple Creek, she sends me
If I spring a leak, she mends me
I don’t have to speak, she defends me
A drunkard’s dream if I ever did see one…”
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@BrendaR:
But Josh’s seed will swell the numbers of House Duggar.
In the words of Patriarch Tywin Lannister:
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Still Reforming,
I am quite familiar with that Pyromaniacs blog. I used to read it and, on occasion, comment over there. Those commenting there were brutal toward anyone who didn’t tow the Calvinist Party Line. They were the perfect example of what it is to be bullies. An echo chamber if ever there was one. After Phil Johnson left the blog, I read an excellent post on another blog entitled, “When Bullies Lose a Leader.” Here it is:
http://thepedestrianchristian.blogspot.com/2012/06/pyromaniacs-when-bullies-lose-leader.html
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Darlene,
Thank you for that link. I used to to read Pyromaniacs about eight or nine years ago, back when there seemed to be a spate of Reformed blogs that were quite good. I found Pyromaniacs, however, to be very abrasive – even in general tone without all the jumping on folks who commented with slight (or not-so-slight) disagreements. They seemed to have this hold-it-over-your-head academic superiority thing going – and some of the group who had their own sleek blogs also reveled in the sarcasm and mockery stuff. It was detestable in my view. But they justified it all as defending God and His Word. I remember the last post I ever read there had to do with how it was wrong to pronounce “Jesus” as any other way than “GEE-zus,” and I commented how there are many Hispanics who would just say “HAY-soos” as part of the Spanish language or Messianic Jews who likewise would say “Yeh-SHOO-ah” as part of the Hebraic culture, and the response I received stated that those cultures are ignorant because in the Greek it’s always been “GEE-zus” and those people groups are just trying to start their own thing without knowing truth. It was a really odd justification in my view and demonstrated to me yet one more reason I didn’t need to seek any truth over there. I hadn’t realized Phil had left the blog. I’ll go read the link now.
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You know what turns my stomach about the new Jill and Jessa Duggar show? The promotion of their ideology despite the fact that incest and sexual abuse in these environments is not an anomaly. When Josh’s perversions became public, others began sharing their stories of incest. Julie Anne shared one of them here:
https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/07/21/incest-survivor-shares-her-personal-thoughts-about-the-josh-duggar-case-truth-and-reconciliation/
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