Culture, Spanking, Bible, Lori Alexander, Abortion, Feminism, Divorce
Do we Have a Culture of Death?
In a recent article, Children Need a Bible and a Belt, blogger Lori Alexander complains about today’s children, our politically correct culture, and our culture of death which she concludes is caused by abortion, and feminism, which she claims leads to the death of marriage. She also mentions the death of hard-working men who used to provide for their families (not sure where she thinks they went). Getting rid of Bibles, she asserts, has led to the death of morality; and parents who fail to discipline their children have contributed “to the death of obedient and self-controlled children.” Woe R us!
She continues:
Children used to be obedient, had self-control and knew right from wrong. Now, they have no moral compass and have no clue what is right from wrong. They need to be taught to be obedient, respect authority and the value of life from conception through old age.
While I do concur that not everyone values life, I disagree with her blanket statement about kids not having a moral compass or knowing right from wrong. The public school students I work with are, for the most part, respectful and obedient.
They need to be taught to work hard and be responsible. They need to be taught God’s ordained role for them as a male or female. They need to be taught to be covenant keepers until “death do they part.”
Covenant keepers? What does she mean? God’s ordained role? I’ve never taught my kids how to be a boy or a girl. What does that mean? My boys and girls played with the same toys from dolls to Legos, bows and arrows, Lincoln Logs, train sets, climbed trees, you name it. My boys probably cook just as much if not more than my girls. I didn’t know this was something that people taught. Maybe I’m a bad mom. Sorry, kids.
She then recommends a song by a couple in which the title refers to a belt and a Bible. Out of respect for this family who is going through their own challenges with cancer, I will not be passing along the link.
But if that was not enough, at the conclusion of the article, Ms. Alexander recommends Mike and Debi Pearl’s well-known “parenting” book, To Train Up a Child.
For further guidance on raising children to be obedient and trained in the ways of the Lord, I highly recommend the Pearl’s book To Train Up a Child. If you’ve read my posts for very long, you know I have no desire to be politically correct. My only desire is to be biblically correct in everything.
This is what the book looked like when I read it years ago (on the left).
I remember families who bought this book by the case and handed them out. If you bought them by the case, they were around $2.00 a book, so they were given out at church, homeschool co-ops, etc. It seems most everybody had this book in its prime, and parents swore by it. It’s interesting because the kids who once were raised by this book are now some of the very same ones who are speaking out on Homeschoolers Anonymous or other online forums about the harsh, abusive, and controlling parenting influenced by the Pearls.
On the right, is the newer updated version.
Lori Alexander gave a link to a newer release of the book which only had two reviews. This link has 4,737 customer reviews and an overall rating of 2.2 stars. Happy reading!
Interestingly, Ms. Alexander claims the world is a culture of death, yet recommends a book that has reportedly contributed to the deaths of at least a couple of children (see recommended links below).
While she claims feminism has caused divorces, I wonder if she has considered that Patriarchy (condoned by both the Pearls and the Alexanders) has caused emotional, physical, and spiritual death of women. We are just now reaping the repercussions of Patriarchy and harsh, abusive parenting by Christian families who followed these teachings. I think many adult children who were raised in this culture would say they experienced emotional and spiritual death, too.
But nope, according to Ms. Alexander, the bad stuff only happens because of the world and its culture, certainly not because of us, Christians. Right!
Related links:
- Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by “To Train Up a Child”
- Quotes from To Train Up a Child
- Child ‘training’ book triggers backlash, BBC News
- Did the Disturbing Philosophy of To Train Up a Child Lead to Hana Williams’ Death?, Slate.com
- Link on Homeschoolers Anonymous related to the tag, “To Train Up a Child”
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Time for lunch here.
Am I obligated to teach the difference between discipline and abuse? Within meaning of the article; should Marsha have the privilege to attempt to change focus or definitions?
My “constructive suggestion” is that we are all obligated to protect the Civil Rights of others; yet I do not see that. Many have sacrificed and died for the privilege to post opinions here; but this goes beyond opinion. The alternate contention; you are smarter than everyone else and will tell them how to raise their kids.
Are the concepts and ideologies within such derived Religion any better? Let’s not admonish our children in the Lord and expect them not to grow up and abuse others?
BeenThereDoneThat: “She is. And the people who trumpet “parental rights” don’t really care about the children”. Where did this piece of wisdom come from? Look around you; we have generations in failure in your abusive ideologies and then get to deal with the results; as you plead “something”. You approach is outside the bounds of Sound Doctrine and the Civil Rights of others; prove your own points and “something”. Maybe you can also take your discriminatory causes somewhere else?
Gary; we appreciate all the thoughts and prayers. Protecting a family is difficult now and we all need all the help we can get. Your are in our thoughts and prayers.
“Of conviction” means to take up your cross and follow HIM. Your works and thoughts are replaced by HIS works and guidance. You have nothing to offer HIM in your works; but Faith without HIS works is dead. HE will provide ability and wisdom to those HE has chosen; but this requires giving up the allure of the world.
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Good Heavens, Charity! You accused me of abusing funds for women’s shelters? I have done no such thing! I have served responsibly as treasurer for two nonprofits for nearly two decades, as shown by annual audits. (Neither were women’s shelters). You say that women’s shelters can’t be funded any more after funds were abused? Nonsense, they are still being funded in this country.
You come here and make unwarranted assumptions and hurl accusations at people and do not even bother to read the responses! I wonder if you do that to feel superior. You asked what we actually do to help others, this AFTER I gave you some examples if what I do.
Due process is NOT incompatible with protecting children. On the contrary it protects both parents and children since they should not be separated unless accusations of abuse, dependency, and neglect are true. Due process does not delay rescue since Child Protective Services may request an emergency ex parte order from a judge. They then have ten days to come back to court and show probable cause.
Please refrain from telling me I do not know the law. I was a consultant to my state’s Family Court for years before I retired.
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Charity, please do not get personal with your comments. Stick to debating topics, please.
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@Charity
I gave you a link. Did you bother to look at it? Did you bother to read the stories of children killed, starved, beaten, raped, abused by their own parents or guardians? Here’s a direct link to the stories:
http://hsinvisiblechildren.org/blog/
You are so concerned about “parental rights.” Do you care about the rights of these children to live without abuse?
And what would my “abusive ideologies” be? My children are educated, well fed, happy, loved, and not abused.
That’s a cute little bait and switch. Nobody has stated here that we shouldn’t admonish– to speak to (someone) in a way that expresses disapproval or criticism; to tell or urge (someone) to do something — our children. I don’t believe there is scriptural basis for hitting children.
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This article does an excellent job explaining the argument in favor of “parental rights.” It’s basically an argument in favor of animate property where “The pater familias could do as he pleased with his family members: from dictating the conditions of marriage and divorce to disposing of his wife, children, and slaves through adoption, sale, or death.”
http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/12/22/the-uncomfortable-origin-of-hsldas-parental-rights/
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Here is the US Attorney General interpretation for 2014:
Click to access faqs-ngc-vawa.pdf
It contains some of the alternate requirements that can be substituted in VAWA grants (the most restrictive now); but those are changing, please keep up to date. If your causes are just and nondiscriminatory within race or gender (or the other classifications) plead ignorance. The intent is to not sway Law, Court actions or advocacy; the IRS and granting agencies should be lenient otherwise.
Wait a minute anonymous; you didn’t post anything about nonprofits before. I did not accuse anyone of anything; just stated it was harder because of such ideologies.
CPS within the policies of the various States are and still able to get Judges to issue protective orders; the requirements are much more stringent and nondiscriminatory now.
I have others that need help.
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Charity becomes more and more entertaining. He reminds me of so called sovereign citizens, who have convinced themselves they don’t have to pay speeding tickets because there is no privity of contract, under the Uniform Commercial Code, between themselves and the citing officer. Neither Charity nor these sovereign citizens make any sense.
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Rain again last night in already flooded areas; pray for them.
Gary, if I remind you of a sovereign citizen I must have presumably breached some privilege or law. Might I ask what that would be?
I did swear oath of office to protect the physical and financial security of the Citizens of the United States. Does quoting Supreme Court or Attorney General guidance fall outside the bounds of Law? Is promoting the National policies of strengthening the family; by removing outside influence of those that think they know more than everyone else breach sovereignty? Is promoting the majority interest against such a small minority, as yours, a breach?
Does Citizenship not hold responsibility to protect the Civil Rights of others? Do your individual ideologies override the Civil Rights of others? Might you fall into the classification of sovereign royalty; with the concept of I know better than GOD, the multitudes, the knowledge and wisdom of millennia? Again; maybe you are just addicted to the endorphin’s of the cause? Offering only the solution of continuing failure; helping no one? While deriving definitions, classifications and privilege?
Just some thoughts; in the true definition of Love?
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The Pearls have quite the “derived religion” of their own, Charity. They make it up as they go along, and call it “biblical”.
And Sean Paddock, Lydia Schatz and Hannah Williams were “admonished in the Lord”, according to what the Pearls (and apparently Lori) would advocate. They never got the chance to grow up at all.
http://www.babble.com/mom/to-train-up-a-child-teaches-punishment-that-kills-kids/
So, “many of conviction” simply means “Christians”? Well, why didn’t you just say “Christian” in the first place?
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@Charity
Are you appealing to civil rights now instead of scripture? Then surely you have no problem with a woman’s civil right to an abortion, because many Christians have no problem stomping all over that civil right. Many Christians strongly object to a same-sex couple’s civil right to marry. And you seem to strongly object to my following what the scriptures say about raising my children, or, apparently, even talking about it on a blog that you chose to come to and debate. Nobody violated your civil rights.
What about the civil rights of children to not be starved, beaten, raped, neglected, or abused by their own parents, guardians or family members? “Children are most often sexually abused by someone they know and trust. Approximately
three quarters of reported cases of child sexual abuse are committed by family members or other individuals who are considered part of the victim’s “circle of trust.””
Click to access ChildSexualAbuseFactSheet.pdf
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@Charity
Like the “wisdom” of the Papua, New Guinea head hunters, or the Yemeni practice of child brides, or the Bauls of Bengal who drink menstrual blood?
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Are you unable to understand the simple concepts of classifications and subsets? Do you wish to redefine all the definitions and wisdom in approach?
You did not appreciate the appeal of scripture or HIS Plan; it does not meet your purpose and was discarded by you.
The true classification of the root problem is evil. Have you taught the children within the requirements of Titus 2 and teach others to do the same?
Proverbs 29:15 “The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself brings his mother to shame.”
This is the resultant blaspheme in failure to meet those requirements.
Maybe we should use your subset method in profiling? Since the mother is responsible for or allows 40% of child abuse; maybe we should make sure the mother is never alone or hold responsibility for the child? If you want to play games; we can play games. But many have more important jobs to do; relieving the pain and suffering, protecting as best a possible with the environment you have created and correcting the root cause that you seem to be unable to even understand, well less address. Do you have suggestions on how to fix that?
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@Charity
You never proved that your ideology is scriptural. We discussed that further up thread, and you never responded to any of the questions about the meaning of “chastise” in either English or Greek. You never answered the question of whether God requires adult believers to be spanked since he “disciplines” those he receives as sons. It is you who has “discarded” “the appeal of scripture” and instead began arguing about civil rights.
Maybe we should. But you think that would be a violation of civil rights.
Your ideology created situations like these:
http://hsinvisiblechildren.org/blog/
Do you “have suggestions on how to fix that?”
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We discussed above, CHRIST said not one jot or tittle of the Law was removed; you removed this on your own, along with the entire Old Testament. I provided sufficient net difference and you quoted from sufficient source of emphases of the Greek representation. Maybe at some point in time you should stop selling yourself as an application theologian and indiscriminately using the term Christian?
It is not my job to teach your or prove your point; it is yours. You approach outside the bounds of Sound Doctrine and society.
We can all read the BIBLE and HIS Plan; then we can look at the failures of you and those like you to teach. Then we get the privilege of picking up the broken pieces and mending things as best as possible; while you are an armchair worrier, unable to find your way out of a paper bag. Your ideology created this situation.
We are now left with more that 25,000 more females entering the prison system over the last few years; requiring more jails. We now have 680,000 more men than women that are victims physiological aggression or hit with an object. These costs are astronomical and added to the massive amounts of funding over the decades that did nothing to solve the problem; only making things worse. Absolute abuse and discrimination.
The corrections to the situation are already being put in place. You lack knowledge, wisdom or ability to understand or help with the situation; you are hooked to the world and your feelings. If you want to help, go do your commanded job in the BIBLE; as you always should have been doing. You are still in the safest classification on the earth.
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Jesus warns us not to call people fools. Yet Solomon warns us about them. I will not call Charity a fool, but surely it behooves us to recognize that we are dealing with somebody who is being foolish. I submit that we are to a point where we should heed these verses:
(Proverbs 26:4-5 ESV)
The question is, which verse? Perhaps it is not possible to choose aright. It may be that Solomon was making the point that, when dealing with foolish people, it’s danged if you do and danged if you don’t.
Well, up ’til now, it has been my inclination to follow the prescription of verse 5. Charity has been fun and easy sport. However, I fear that we are only hardening him in his views, thereby increasing the probability that he will do harm to his family.
Each one may decided for themselves whether the time has come to disengage. I may not do so myself. However, we should recognize that we are only speaking to one another. Charity, in his foolishness, is simply unwilling, even incapable, of embracing the truth that is being offered him. It’s too bad, really. He risks being one to whom Mt. 18:6 applies: “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” (KJV)
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@Charity
I asked you why you pick and choose what parts of the OT to follow. Do you wear poly/cotton clothing in defiance of Leviticus 19:19? Do you eat ham in defiance of Deut. 14:8? Because “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.” James 2:10. Or “For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”” Galations 3:10
Yet you never answered my question on that either.
Are you in the habit of judging others’ salvation while not being able to give an answer yourself tor what you believe?
Now that’s just arrogant and also unscriptural. You came here to debate. We did not seek you out. “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,” 1 Peter 3:15. You have also failed miserably on the “gentleness and respect” part.
Your ideology created this situation.
You have yet to respond to a link I have posted three times about abused homeschooled children.
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I suspect you’re right, Gary. For the past few days, I’ve felt (to borrow a phrase from a fellow commenter at TWW) like I’m trying to have a conversation with a cabbage. Which is a fitting analogy, considering all the word salad coming from Charity’s mouth/keyboard.
Like you, I can only hope he won’t do something to irreparably harm his kids, claiming it’s for “the greater good of society” or “obedience to the scriptures, as interpreted by Michael Pearl”.
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Charity is just babbling away – word salad is a good description. It is very frustrating. I have no idea what he is even talking about and I suspect he doesn’t either. He came here and blamed us for all of society’s problems and denied that we are Christians and said that we don’t understand scripture. He disapproves of people who are active in trying to help others the way that Jesus asked us to do. Just because we are not saved by good works doesn’t mean it is wrong to do them. It is just weird to think that. But as much as he fussed about not getting involved in causes he blames us for not being about helping people in flood lands. Which is it – should we help others or not?
I am really tired of people who revel in believing that they are saved but others have it all wrong. I suppose that is the only way they can feel good about themselves.
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Gary W, I am here to investigate your accusations against the person posting in icon as Charity. I swore oath of office to protect the physical and financial security of the Citizens of the United State, just as Charity has. The United States takes these matters very seriously, especially those within oath that would consider themselves above or outside the bounds of Law.
I see that he did provide Attorney General guidance of charity and statement that those funds should not be used for discriminatory purposes; both would be considered part of his job. Was this the complaint or are there others? I do not see any other posting (limited to this blog page) that would potentially breach law. If there are others, please provide such information.
Thank you.
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MODERATOR NOTE: I just released a comment that was held in moderation FROM YESTERDAY because I was confused, didn’t know what to make of it, and frankly, was enjoying time with my daughter who is home from college. I wanted you all to see it. So now, after having a little time to check out Reality’s comment, I have discovered that Reality is really Charity. As soon as I finish posting this, Charity/Reality will be in the permanent SSB dog house. Charity is a certified troll!
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Charity, I don’t care if your wife has a security clearance and I don’t have to explain anything to you. Your comment will not be approved.
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Ok, I don’t normally do this, but it made me LOL. This is what typical troll behavior looks like behind the scenes. I didn’t want anyone to miss out on the fun I get sometimes 🙂
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Whoa, JA. This just went from weird to weirder. But I do think this conversation with Charity/Reality (lol) is a perfect example of what some of us experienced from our former abusive church leaders. It’s the same type of condescension, belittling, and putting-down that made me feel like I couldn’t possibly read the Bible and have a different opinion than they had. That’s a lie.
I hope others will take time to study this issue of child spanking for themselves and not accept the words of some guru who will take no responsibility for the outcome of your children. You only get one shot at raising your kids (not that the Lord can’t heal our mistakes).
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Did you notice how Charity got mad at me for not letting “Reality” post, yet we’re all supposed to know that Reality is his wife? And then we get a comment from Charity’s Wife? haha Will Charity’s real wife stand up, please?
Oh, Charity, your threats, condescending attitude, comments from same ip address all point to the same thing: troll.
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JA, “your eminence” has a nice ring to it. We can shorten in to YO when addressing you. Even Dee and Deb have been called “minions of Satin” or “in league with Stan.” I guess it’s par for the course.
I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, that Charity would violate your civil right to put him/her in the doghouse.
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Not YO, but YE. I can’t type and laugh at the same time.
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Of course my brain went to YO = yarn over. I’ve been knitting, can you tell? 🙂
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I dunno. I’m thinking Your Preeminence would be more apt than merely Your Eminence.
As to Charity/Troll/Reality/Sock Puppet having exposed his own deceit, I’m having significant difficulty resisting the temptation to indulge a bit of schadenfreude.
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Well, I’m glad you all were willing to deal with Charity. As for me, I ain’t got time for that. Although, I did find it amusing that when asked if he spoke English he snarkily asked if he needed to speak proper ancient English, then continues with all of his verses being KJV.
I found this entire exchange amusing and bewildering. Carry on! It’s almost a new year which means new tolls abound!
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“. I swore oath of office to protect the physical and financial security of the Citizens of the United State, just as Charity has. The United States takes these matters very seriously, especially those within oath that would consider themselves above or outside the bounds of Law.”
What is scary is if this person is paid by our tax dollars. Not only is this one guaranteed a good pension but better health benefits in retirement than the rest of us non gov workers.
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