How Biblical Gender Role’s Discipline Advice is Actually Abuse
by Kathi
This past weekend I may have caused some fine folks’ blood pressure to rise by sharing blogger, Biblical Gender Role’s “7 Ways to Discipline Your Wife” on the SSB Facebook page. I apologized for getting everyone’s Saturday mojo ruined, but I think we had some good discussion.
Since this is Domestic Violence Awareness Month, I would like to tackle the seven ways Author (the author is anonymous, so we will call him “Author” ) claims wives can be disciplined. I question that idea. While Author claims that he does not condone Christian Domestic Discipline or physical violence, he fails to recognize how his examples of disciplining a wife are in fact, abusive. In reviewing these examples, I will reference the Duluth Model Power and Control Wheel. This Power and Control Wheel is the standard used by counselors and educators when dealing with domestic violence. While the Biblical Gender Role’s Author does not condone violence (as seen on the outside of the wheel), power and control are the key ingredients in abuse. Power, according to Author, is given to husband by God and it is the husband’s duty to discipline.
#1 A wife may be disciplined for disrespect.
If your wife is speaking in disrespectful and demeaning ways in public in front of others (whether this is toward you or others) this might require a public rebuke of her tone and actions.
Publicly rebuking your wife would fall under the category of emotional abuse. A public rebuking would show that you are attempting to make her feel bad about herself for her words or that you’re trying to humiliate her. If your wife is speaking disrespectfully about you or others in public, it is best to address this in private, and explain how her words affect you.
#2 A wife may be disciplined for overspending.
If your wife is spending money against your wishes – this may require confiscation of her credit cards and ATM cards…..This does not necessarily mean she would have no money, but you could give her a cash allowance each week.
Taking away a wife’s ATM or credit card and giving her an allowance would fit under the category of financial abuse. This is one way that an abuser may hold power over a victim. When the victim has to rely upon the abuser for financial support, it is often difficult for her to leave a domestic violence situation. The wife is held financially captive by her husband.
#3 A wife may be disciplined for “failing to take care of children” or for “contradicting authority” over children.
If your wife is failing to do her duties as a mother toward your children or she is continuing to contradict your authority with the children then perhaps you might put off buying that new car for her and have her continue driving her older car for a while as long as it is safe for her to drive.
At least I can give Author some credit for making sure the wife has a safe car to drive (insert long eye roll). This would fall under the male privilege category of abuse. Here, the husband is told that he can be “master of his castle,” and he can make big decisions such as when to purchase the next car or dishwasher. The husband is the sole person to determine if his wife is not properly taking care of the children, or if he feels his authority is being undermined.
#4 A wife may be disciplined for watching too much TV.
If your wife is watching too much TV you could cancel the cable or satellite TV and just have antenna service.
Again, this is using male privilege to make a big decision. I want to know how the husband is going to know that a wife is watching too much TV if he’s at work all day. Better yet, what if the wife feels like the husband watches too much TV and doesn’t help enough around the house. Does she get to cancel the cable or satellite?
#5 A wife may be disciplined for too much online time.
If your wife is spending too much time online (like Facebook or other social outlets or online shopping) then if she does not respond to your warnings about this you could change your internet code on your router so that her devices will not have access to the internet.
Uh-oh! I’m in trouble here! This is the first example where the word “warning” is used. Are we talking about a child or an adult? Is this husband a police officer? Unless a husband is warning his wife about a potential safety danger, this would fall under intimidation. There is also the issue of social isolation if the wife relies upon use of the internet to connect with friends and family. Removing social connections also prevents her from seeking help.
#6 A wife may be disciplined for neglecting the home.
If your wife is being neglectful of her duties to care for your home then you might put off that new living room furniture set you have been talking about or those new window dressings she has been wanting.
As far as I can tell, a husband who might be able to withhold a new car, dishwasher, internet, cable, furniture or window coverings sounds like he’s got some money. How about hiring a maid to come once a week to help out around the house? I’ll say it one more time, he is exercising male privilege (he wants that castle clean!).
#7 A wife may be disciplined for denying sex.
If your wife is un-submissive in the sexual arena and chronically denies your sexual advances (without legitimate medical or psychological reasons for doing so) then perhaps that upcoming trip you were going to take her on gets canceled.
Even though sexual abuse on the power wheel is on the outside (physical and sexual abuse hold it all together), not providing something because your wife is not giving you enough sex is sexual abuse. If a husband tells a wife that he will not take her on a trip because she’s not giving enough sex, that husband is coercing her to get what he wants. I haven’t done enough digging around on the Biblical Gender Role’s website, but I wonder if Author acknowledges that marital rape exists.
In the end, Author states:
God not only give husbands the power to discipline their wives, but he also gives them to the duty to do this. Men should not discipline their wives out some sort of power trip or prideful arrogance. Instead men should discipline their wives from a place of love in order to bring about holiness and order in their homes.
Abuse is all about power and control. And, no, God does not give husbands power or control (duty) to abuse their wives. He states that men should not discipline out of a “power trip,” yet he states that God gives husband this power! Which is it – power or no power? Author confuses the husband’s showing of love in order to bring holiness and order in the home and does not even see how this borders abuse.
Love does not need the excuse of power and control. Love is patient, kind, not envious, not proud, not dishonoring, not self-seeking, not easily angered, and does not record wrong doing (1 Corinthians 13:4-5).
Image credit: Domestic Abuse Intervention Project
Please see SSB Helpful Resources for links and resources on Domestic Violence.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
I said it on Facebook and I’ll say it again over here: I’d like to get that asshat in an MMA ring and beat the crap out of him for about 20 minutes. I’d like to make it so his own family wouldn’t recognize him for 3-4 weeks. What kind of a pathetic, wimpy, wussy, milquetoast, weakling, pansy coward thinks it’s OK to “discipline” his wife? He’s just begging to be kicked in the balls.
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JA, Not the Biblical gender roles guy! I was over at that site a few months ago. That man is twisted. By the way, he also condones polygamy.
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Dash, tell us how you really feel, ok? 😉
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With some of those punishments, he’s depriving himself as well. The cable and satellite t.v. is canceled, then he doesn’t get to watch it either. Putting off the living room furniture means hubby doesn’t get the new living room furniture to relax on either. Canceling the upcoming trip means he doesn’t go on the trip either. Man, this guy is in LaLaLand. Those photos on his site are hilarious. Can anyone really take this guy seriously?
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Yes, Darlene, this is the very same guy. He is twisted. I’m so glad Kathi wrote this article using the Power and Control Wheel with his words. You can clearly see how abusive this man is.
I was not aware that he condoned polygamy, but I’m pretty sure that he doesn’t allow many excuses for a wife to say no to sex.
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I made a comment over there. Let’s see if it gets posted. I don’t say this too often but, that guy is a JERK.
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Wow, I can’t imagine any woman marrying this guy. Why would they, he is a narsasistic ass and psychopath. Guaranteed you will eventually be abused physically if you marry a fool like this Dunsky.
Even if you buy into his BDSM / domination lifestyle that comes across very clearly in his writing ( so clearly that I can picture him in his black leather master’s mask chasing his UNsubmissive wife around with a paddle ” yelling come back here naughty slave girl”. This idiots blog is like a low budget REDBOX movie that leaves you feeling weirded out.
It is high time that men within the Christian community ( like leadership maybe ! ) step up and call this crap exactly what it is, a pervert BDSM lifestyle. How much evidence do we need to conclude this has become a huge problem within the church? Think about it, Ashley Madison alumni RC Sproul Jr spanking his wife while visitors were in the home. Anyone that doesn’t believe their assertions over the drunkards denials in light of his Ashley Madison exposure is a fool. There is a pattern there and it isn’t a good one.
Example #2 Larry Tomczak’ s forcing his adult daughter to strip nude so he could beat her with a belt or plastic / wood rod. Anyone who is calling her a lier when Tomczak himself doesn’t deny it but calls it a matter of “family discipline” . The problem is when you are beating your 22 year old nude daughter with the above items that isn’t a parental right as he calls it, it’s felony assault. This is the same clown that wrote GOD, the rod and your child’s bod. Weird guy acting out his BDSM fantasy if you ask me.
Example #3 John Loftness Former SGM pastor/ principle of Christian school accused by numerous women of abusing them when they were little girls, (kindergarteners) in some cases. The charges are very similar, pulling down their underwear beating them with a white cord, masturbating while forcing them to stand there with their underwear down, and inserting his fingers into their vaginas. Two other men from SGM were also involved with this.
Example 2 & 3 are SGM affiliated persons and these are just a few examples of the allegations leveled against SGM perverts. Thus far there as been two criminal convictions for sex offenses. Ask yourself why so many cases like this within fundamentalist Christianity.
To me the answer is clear: Dreadfully poor teaching like 7 ways to discipline your wife. By the way there is absolutely NO biblical grounds for discipling your wife. No where in scripture is such a practice mention, referred to or taugh. This is false teaching, lies from the pit of hell and extremely destructive to the body of Christ. It is time to take a stand and scream NO more. To kick these perverts out of the pulpit along with those covering up their crimes.
If you tithe, give or attend a SGM church in light of all the abuses that are clearly substantiated YOU are an accessory after the fact and as guilty as the child molesters themselves in my book. I would not trust you around kids, would divorce you if you were my spouse and wouldn’t date you if you were the last woman on the planet. You are scum, someone that can over look the biggest sexual abuse case the church has ever seen in order to be part of the club. Congratulations, you are in the child molester club.
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Kathi,
Kudos to you for taking him on. There’s been discussion about him on other blogs I frequent. It has been suggested that he’s a ‘Poe’, because his views are so over-the-top. One thing’s for certain – he must realize how unpopular his views are; he stays anonymous. Also, when you scroll through the comments on his posts, you’ll see that he’s got lots of support from other men. No big surprise there. I see that Insanitybytes has commented on his latest post – she’s a well-know bootlicker to patriarchal men.
I don’t know about anyone else, but it seems to me that his site – although it gives the appearance of serious biblical analysis – is just a titillating exercise in discussions about sex for the repressed individual. I get a mental image of giggling, adolescent boys flipping through a Playboy magazine. Whatever turns your crank, I guess.
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Same author on the “benefits” of polygamy, which he says is not unbiblical:
“These are some of the positive benefits of polygynous marriages:
Polygyny emphasizes the Biblical teaching that woman was made for man and not that man and woman are equal in marriage. It is practically impossible to mistake who was made for whom in a polygynous marriage. The wives don’t sit around and wonder if they are equal to their husband, all the wives know they are there for their husband. This is why many women, Christian and non-Christian alike, hate polygyny, because it demonstrates to the world that woman was created for man, and that marriage is NOT an equal partnership as is taught in many Christian circles today.
Polygyny has practical benefits like that when one woman is sick, the other women can care for her and her children when the man is out working.
While I do believe that a man should be able to support his family, this arrangement would come in handy for if the wives had part time jobs that the other wives could watch their children. In Biblical times it would not be uncommon for some wives to be working in the fields while other wives cared for their children.
The wives would act like sisters to one another and be able to provide emotional support to one another (an area many men lack in simply because it is not how they are wired).
In Biblical times, with a high infant mortality rate, having multiple wives would give you a much better chance of having children, especially sons to carry on your estate.
Polygyny makes being a selfish wife much more difficult. You don’t get to make yourself the center of your husband’s universe, you have to share. In a monogamous marriage this can happen all too easily (wife as center of universe mentality). It also requires the man to also share of himself with each of his wives. Contrary to modern belief, it is possible for a man to love more than one woman. Men are very good at compartmentalizing, this is a trait women often lack.
Often in Biblical times polygynous men were well off and women would gladly become a new wife to one of these men for the economic security it would offer her and her future children. The old saying “a good man is hard to find” goes all the way back to almost the beginning of creation.
I mentioned earlier the idea that polygyny would offer a better chance of having more children. But even in a marriage that may have started off monogamous for many years, if the wife went past her child bearing years without giving the man a son to carry on his name and his estate, he could then marry a younger second wife to try and conceive a son.
In the area of sex, there are often times because of periods, medical conditions, problem pregnancies, or after delivery issues that a woman might not be able to have sex with her husband for an extended length of time. Polygyny solves this problem.
What about if a man marries a woman and not long after the marriage he finds her to be most disagreeable? Some might call this today a “battle ax”. Even if she was not disagreeable in general, what if she were frigid in the bedroom? Biblically as long she did not refuse to have sex with him he could not and should not divorce her because of these things and he is bound to take care of her and provide her marriage rights for life. Polygyny solves this issue. Now I realize that some might argue that he is doing something wrong to make his wife disagreeable, and in truth he should try to make each marriage to each of his wives as good as it can be. But let’s face it some women are just disagreeable, it’s who they are.”
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This sort of stuff is nothing more than the logical, if extreme, out-working of historical Christianity’s teaching on the place of women in marriage, in the church and in society as a whole. Even the apostle Paul is complicit. To the extent the term “Christianity” is defined by the historical teachings and practices of of the church, one cannot be a Christian and a follower of Jesus at the same time.
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Coercion much? Some men just haven’t evolved.
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The man has multiple women to abuse.
Are you sure this man isn’t FLDS?
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“What kind of a pathetic, wimpy, wussy, milquetoast, weakling, pansy coward thinks it’s OK to “discipline” his wife?”
You just answered your own question, Dash. Deep down, domestic abusers are insecure and weak. They distract themselves from their insecurity by bullying their spouses and children.
I fear for the safety of any woman whose husband subscribes to this line of thought. Such an obsession with control is dangerous.
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When I read the section on “disciplining overspending”, this stood out to me in big, bold, red letters. The misogynistic jerk is promoting the idea of husbands controlling their wives’ finances — making it all the harder for an abused wife to escape or find help.
Either this author is blind to his enablement of spousal abuse, or it’s exactly what he hopes to see happen. Either way, he’s not worth listening to.
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Rachel, thanks for finding that polygyny quotation… I guess. It’s good to know just how twisted this fool is, but it’s giving us a slightly larger peek into his mind than most of us would want. (Where’s my barf bucket?)
I got another solution for your “problem”, you self-centered misogynist twerp. How about you go without sex for a while, just like your wife has to? Are you “one flesh” with her, or not? Are you willing to go through life’s struggles with her, or not?
And by the same token, we could face something else: Some men are just abusive scumbags. It’s who they are. And if that’s just who they are, then they have no business at all getting married and bringing misery into every area of women’s lives.
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I can’t wait to read the article Author writes about how she can discipline her husband who is spending too much money, not taking care of the physical needs of the house, watching too much TV, and not spending enough time with the kids. I’m sure he will give hope to the wife for how she is able to tell her husband that no, he cannot go play cards with the guys until he fixes the drain pipe. (cough, cough)
Seriously, though, the financial aspect is huge. I once worked the gambling hotline and listened to countless stories from women about how their husbands had lost everything because of their gambling addiction. (I heard the same from husbands about their wives too, but for sake of argument I’m using the former example.) What recourse would Author give to the wife who is in desperate need financially?
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@Kathi
I’ve been scrolling through his posts. I’m not going to link to anything. He’s very proud of his page views, so I won’t give him any more.
He believes that wives and children are the husband’s property. He also believes the wife does not have equal access to the husband’s income. Why should animate property complain about money she is not privy to?
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This sounds like something ridiculous. Who would want to be in a marriage like that? Of course someone wants to be married to someone who has far more self-discipline than a woman he describes….but then again it doesn’t sound like a marriage relationship. It sounds like a grumpy many married to someone he considers a child. It sounds like all the fun, oneness, working together and joy have been scrapped from the idea of a Biblical marriage.
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It reminds me of Doug Wilson and his “training the wife to do dishes” example. There is a horrible sort of logic to this. If you follow the patriarchal “ideal” of father transferring responsibility to husband, along with the idea of marrying a woman off young (for several reasons: maximum potential for childbearing, pliable, not yet matured, not yet developed her own mind so she can be molded into what her husband wants/needs), then it makes sense that the husband would take a “fatherly” (i.e. controlling) stance.
Are all fathers controlling, like this? Do they have to be? I admit, between my father, and my spouse’s approach to fathering, I haven’t seen anything less control-based.
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(not that my spouse tries this method of controlling *me*, it just seems to be his go-to for dealing with the kids. He calls them “consequences”. I feel like a terrible parent. I really don’t know what the right approach is. I try to use reason; he says the kids walk all over me and take advantage of me. Sorry, my insecurities are really running high today.)
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I’m going to try out this do-not-link thing. Here’s the article about wives being the husband’s property:
http://www.donotlink.com/g25n
Here is the article about wives not having equal access to the husband’s income:
http://www.donotlink.com/gwri
I think that second article also answers Kathi’s question above:
Notice that the wife is only able to divorce her loser husband if the pastor agrees. How often would that happen? Most pastors trot out the “God hates divorce” mantra, and encourage women to stay in abusive marriages.
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And this abusive, contemptuous way of treating one’s wife explains the skyrocketing divorce rate among churches (like the Southern Baptists) who espouse patriarchy beliefs. Conservative evangelicals have the highest divorce rates, exceeding that of atheists.
Here is conservative Baptist pastor Wade Burleson’s (Enid, Oklahoma) excellent article calling out patriarchy for what it is…sinful. Wade is a fair-minded man who knows his Bible and his history. Wade is the pastor over at E-Church on Sundays at The Wartburg Watch blog.
http://www.wadeburleson.org/2009/07/god-calls-patriarchal-headship-sinful.html
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And another good article by pastor Wade Burleson about the connection between patriarchy and sexual abuse:
http://www.wadeburleson.org/2011/05/connection-between-christian-patriarchy.html
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@JulieAnne:
Guy sounds like he’s packing his brains below his belt:
“ME MAN! ME HORNY! YOU WOMAN! YOU SHUT UP!”
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That’s a Pedo sexually assaulting minors right there.
With “also involved” meaning anything from accessory-after-the-fact coverup to more short-eyes joining in the actual act.
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@ServingKidsInJapan:
And disobey Direct Orders from Captain Bonerhelmet?
I’ve gone without sex for 59 years; this guy can’t for a couple days?
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All of his “If she doesn’t do this, then you can withhold that” advice sounds extremely passive/aggressive to me. As for his anonymity, he explains on his site that he does that because he thinks otherwise people will address him directly on his views and it might not be good for his family. Does he think he’s an underground Christian in North Korea or something?
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I’m thinking about the sleepy little hamlet of Stepford and the wives therein,
then I thought of this article I just read about robots actually becoming self aware and realize that said robots should be treated better than the poor girl/women trapped in a marriage with a narcissist.
Then I thought of the Greek mythological story of Narcisi falling in love with his reflection which inspired the perfect answer to the man’s, ahem, frustration……use your hand, dude.
Here is the story with the ‘bots.
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-robot-passed-a-self-awareness-test-that-only-humans-could-handle-until-now-2015-7
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BTDT – Thanks for being willing to read through the articles and find out about how a wife may proceed if her husband is not providing. And, you’re right, how often will a pastor tell her to divorce him? Chances are that they are hearing much of the patriarchy dribble from the pulpit.
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opinemine said, “I’m thinking about the sleepy little hamlet of Stepford and the wives therein,
then I thought of this article I just read about robots actually becoming self aware and realize that said robots should be treated better than the poor girl/women trapped in a marriage with a narcissist. ”
And this makes me think of our final exit interview with the elders of our old church, which was (in my eyes an exit interview) in my spouse’s eyes a meeting where we were asking the elders’ help in helping to restore our fragmented family. They were shocked when I said something to the effect that I’d been reduced to just going through the motions of being a good wife and churchgoer, and I was resigned to being reduced that state for the rest of my life.
You see, you are not only to *be* subjugated, but you are to be *joyful* about it. None of this going through the motions nonsense. No, siree, you7 are supposed to *joyfully* throw yourself into the role *with your whole heart, soul, and mind*. Because, like “godly” and “biblical” and all that.
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His argument about childbearing holds no water. Statistically couples who struggle with fertility issues, about forty percent of problems deal with sperm ( mobility, low count etc). Forty percent have to do with female problems and ten-twenty per cent of infertility cases deal with issues with both partners or are unidentified.
What is a man to do if he is unable to sire children? Marrying four or five women will not solve the problem!
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I wonder if the author of that very bizarre blog ever wonders what it’s like to be married to an _________ like him. How does anything he puts forth as ” scriptural ” reconcile with LOVE YOUR WIFE MORE THAN YOURSELF.
Also I thought there had to be scripture for something to be scriptural. These guys act like if they think it up and say it it’s scriptural.
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Big shock: the deep thinking theologian over there at 7 ways to beat your wife down wouldn’t allow a very politely asked question requesting the chapter and verse he bases this teaching on. Gee I wonder why…….
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Good for you for trying, Scott. Did you get a screen shot?
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“I am a early forties,white male. I live in the United States.
I was divorced from my first wife(whom I had some children with) after she committed adultery. I have since remarried and my wife and I our raising my children together(I share joint custody with my ex). My wife and I with our children are members of and attend a Baptist Church.” – Author of the hateful blog about wives
Wow, so according to this blogger, his first wife had and affair and left him. While people have affairs for a variety of reasons, he never took a hard look at himself and his insufferable attitudes to see if his conduct drove his first wife in to the arms of another man? Some people NEVER learn….
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“Notice that the wife is only able to divorce her loser husband if the pastor agrees. How often would that happen? Most pastors trot out the “God hates divorce” mantra, and encourage women to stay in abusive marriages.”
((((Trigger warning. I am going to go into graphic detail about how I felt about god as a young girl.))))
As a sexually abused little girl being raised in the southern Baptist convention with a wife beating bible loving father I always wondered why god did not hate little girl rape, why god did not hate mothers getting beat for making corn bread instead of buttermilk biscuits.
I starting thinking when I was thirteen that god has the mentality of a pimp, man can do anything and everything he wants to his wife and daughters, or that vagina will have to answer to big man pimp god.
Because of the rampant sexually sadistic misogynistic demeaning life Christian fathers heap on their wives and daughters I started hurting myself and have been suicidal ever since I was eleven.
But this is what they do, they pretend they are doing nothing wrong, and it is the wife or daughter doing something wrong, it is us being hurt, and them getting pleasure out of hurting us, how dare we tell anybody they are hurting us.
God, Christian fathers, and Christian husbands give me the most disgusting gross unbearable feelings, like my pimp or owner is coming after me, and I am nothing but a little sex slave child that isn’t allowed to say no and run from them.
I do not for one minute believe Christian men love their wives, or love their daughters. These Christian men try to slap they word love on all their self serving sexually sadistic fetishes.
I do not believe god loves any woman, or little girl.
In my thorough experience growing up in conservative Christianity, it is sexually sadistic, sexually abusive, extremely misogynistic loser men that flock to Christianity.
These men belong in the same category as men that take little girl sex slaves, men that sexually torture little girls, men that look at porn of little girls being sexually tortured.
These sexually sadistic men are terrified of women and little girls having the right to say no to them, they are the kind of men women and little girls want to run far away from.
That is why they are Christian men, because they say god created the female race to be their @ss kissing sex slaves. My Christian father did not deserve to have his @ss kissed.
I was brainwashed by my Christian father to be an @ss kissing female slave for a conservative Christian boy. My mother was my fathers @ss kissing little girl wife slave. My father makes me sick, he should have been ashamed, I want to throw up when I think about him.
I have told my mother many times I wish she had aborted me, she has told me many times she wishes her mother had aborted her. We were both raised to be female slaves for self worshipping Christian men.
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“If you tithe, give or attend a SGM church in light of all the abuses that are clearly substantiated YOU are an accessory after the fact and as guilty as the child molesters themselves in my book. I would not trust you around kids, would divorce you if you were my spouse and wouldn’t date you if you were the last woman on the planet. You are scum, someone that can over look the biggest sexual abuse case the church has ever seen in order to be part of the club. Congratulations, you are in the child molester club.”
This This This.
Thank you.
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100pinkapples, Your story is horrific each time I read bits and pieces of it. I’m glad you are sharing it here. People need to see what Patriarchy and misogyny does to girls raised in this environment. My heart goes out to you. 😦
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@refugee:
Like the Joy Joy Joy of North Korean Population Units Dancing Joyfully With Great Enthusiasm Before Comrade Dear Leader — HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!
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P.S. Isn’t that like Joan “Mommie Dearest” Crawford demanding her daughter always praise praise praise her for the abuse?
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So sorry, pink, for what you’ve gone through. Horrific.
That is not Christianity. That is an abusive, vicious monster using Christianity as a prop to facilitate his sadism. I’ve known the types and gotten in the faces of the types who dominate their wives like that. I despise everything they stand for, everything they do–and Jesus, who’s name they defame, will one day give them precisely what they have coming. Please do not throw Him out with the trash that abused you. He said it would be better for those types to commit suicide by drowning themselves that to hurt little ones.
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Kudos for using the Duluth Model diagram here. It’s one of those things that I think people should take a look at every so often because the patterns come up quite a bit in spiritually abusive churches that condition families for spiritual abuse.
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100pinkapples,
So sorry about the horrible abuse you suffered. No child deserves that kind of treatment. I hope you are surrounded and supported by others who have survived and thrived after abuse.
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Well, the dude didn’t post my comment over there. I guess he has a fragile ego. Anywho, I think I’m gonna downgrade my descriptive ‘jerk’ comment about him to calling him a Sicko with a demented brain. In the comment section, someone pointed out that a wife referred to her husband as Dad and thought that she was showing that she subconsciously views her husband as her Dad. Sicko gender roles dude replied:
“…you have hit on something here that goes to crux of how a wife views her husband.” He then goes on to making two lists of a father’s role in loving his children and a husband’s role in loving his wife. Pretty much the list is the same for the children as it is for the wife, with a few exceptions. So, in his twisted view, he believes “…the perspective of the wife toward her husband in many ways overlaps that of the children toward their father.” So a wife is really just a woman-child. Of course he uses “Biblical” quite a bit to back up his assumptions. Go over and read the list if you have the stomach for it.
I wish he’d come over here and make a few comments. And I know that Julie Anne wouldn’t censor him. And what’s with these manly men censoring opposing views? I don’t get it. Aren’t they manly enough to handle the heat? You know, like that expression: “If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen.” Oh wait…these guys don’t see it as their ROLE to be in the kitchen. Guess they can’t take the heat after all. 😉
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100pinkapples – Every time I read your story my heart breaks. I’m so happy that you feel comfortable sharing here, though. Your story is important and needs to be told!
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100pinkapples I am truly sorry such evil things happened to you.
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100pinkapples,
Your story breaks my heart, Please know that you are loved here, & believe me when I tell you that these “:men” who abused you were NOT Christians; they were sadistic perverts. When they stand before the One Just Judge, they will be snivelling wrecks who are so afraid that they wet themselves.
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Thanks to every one, I just want people to care and know how this makes sexually abused little girls feel.
The man that sexually terrorized me as a little girl would have loved the discipline your wife crap, and hearing this as a sexually abused little girl I would have cried and then cried some more and cut my self.
I do not believe these men hate rape anymore then they hate money.
My father talked just like these men, and he hated raped little girls with a bloody passion, and wanted people to hate them with him.
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Ann wrote:
“What is a man to do if he is unable to sire children? Marrying four or five women will not solve the problem!”
Any street cur can sire a litter of puppies, a real man will raise the children of others as his own…
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100pinkapples,
I’m so sorry for everything you’ve been through, and for what was done to you. It is on behalf of you and people like you that I get so cataclysmically angry with abusive theology.
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100pinkapples,
I join with others here to support you and your brutal honesty about this topic. So sorry for all of the hellish abuse you’ve been through. I have no doubt that at my former patriarchal cult there are the same kinds of horrific abuses going on…and it’s just a matter of time before it’s revealed.
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100Pinkapples,
I hear your pain. I have experienced your pain and I hate it. It’s deep and never ending , often ignored and minimized by those that have not been swept up in it or who are guilty. Guilty of the offense, guilty of hiding it or denying it and engaging in cover up for the purpose of $$$ enterprise protection $$$. There is religion, there is ” faith” , there is Christianity and then there is a true relationship with Jesus Christ.
He wants to heal you, the Jesus I know wants to embrace you and show his everlasting love, grace and mercy. He wants to protect you. He wants you to know you are NOT broken, the people that hurt you were. They were not truly his people. They did not know HIM, they were just religious, they had “faith” , they were Christians but they did NOT know Jesus.
I pray that you will come to know this with every core of your being. It took me so very long to know this. The path was so very painful. Please know that there are people that can and will walk through the healing process with you. We have been there. We know this dark place is real and you were taken there through no fault of your own. I will do absolutely anything to help you engage that healing process. I will get you a counselor where you live, I will pay for it. Whatever it takes I’m all in because you are important to GOD , and his people that truly know his SON Jesus and not just about him.
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@MuffPotter:
But that’s “NOT *MY* DNA!”
The same reason as when a lion takes over a pride, he kills ALL the cubs sired by the previous pride alpha. And a horny bear moving in on a she-bear ALWAYS kills her cubs. “Not MY DNA”.
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I don’t quite know how to articulate this…but I will try. I think it’s ok that we don’t mention God to 100pinkapples after all of the abuse that she’s suffered through in *the name of God*.
I think it is rare that anyone in the church is able to sit with and help people with deep traumas. They tend to slap Scripture verses on things and deal with traumas in a trite, superficial manner. Not all Christians, just most of them.
There’s something to be said for simply sitting with folks and letting them be, loving them. Like the Jewish tradition of mourning, sitting shiva.
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This is utterly horrifying. But thank you for writing it. More women need to be reminded that it’s not them, it’s their husband.
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Not sure if this fits here or not but if this is not a pile of crap I don’t know what is.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-judge-jails-domestic-abuse-victim-not-testifying-n441331
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Kathi,
Thanks for the handknit, purple ribbon in honor of domestic violence prevention/awareness month! I got it in the mail here in California and I am wearing it on my dress today.
You are a gem. Please get my email details so we can start planning a 2017 college graduation party for Julie Anne!
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Graduation party, will Chuck Oneil be invited ?
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it could go both ways…. feminism…can be a trip through high water…. for community and family order…. ie….a wife must be a stay at home mom due to health issues…husband has to travel outside of his local community due to gossipy feminist type females at community workplace…. to support the family. He needed go through unemployment and reverse sexual harrassment.
yes some spouses are overbearing…. at times it is a blessing when the unbelieving spouse leaves the house and abandons the children…. other times… it is good that a husband ‘submits’ to GOD and nature’s GOD…. he is the stronger one supposedly… in mind and body…
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Left the guy a comment and asked him to come to disprove this in this comments section. Let’s see if my comment even gets through because the writer is first and foremost a coward and a jackass.
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To “of course you don’t care”: I am not sure what you are talking about but a feminist is someone who believes that women are equal to men socially, politically, and economically and should have equal rights. Everyone should be a feminist.
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@Scott,
The graduation party in 2017 IS supposed to be a JOYOUS event. CON won’t be on the guest list.
Signed,
Velour, Party Coordinator
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Kathi: I asked on the SSB FB, but my comment there (like many on the FB) was ignored. Thus I will ask here. Do you accept the concept of “Male Privilege” as reflected in the Duluth model?
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Or maybe it was to the wrong person, or overlooked. In any event, do you adhere to the concept of “male privilege”?
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Keith,
I just read the “Male Privilege” wording on the Duluth model. I do see some problems (researchers do too). Domestic violence is more complex than just a man behaving in that stereotypical fashion. Some batterers do that; others don’t and batter for other reasons – impulse control problems, substance abuse, mental illness, etc. (At my former patriarchal NeoCal church the “Male Privilege” model applies because it’s what they teach and is a part of their culture that women are “to obey” and “to submit” and that men are to have “final authority”. Trust me, I didn’t know that going in…)
Here’s a research article about then Duluth Model and problems that have been encountered in its application in various countries:
Click to access CounteringConfusion.pdf
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Keith – Sorry, but I did not see the comment on the FB page. Unfortunately, I don’t see when new comments arrive every time. I think Velour answered the question very well. DV cases are very complex and they all vary.
Not all men will use male privilege when they abuse, but some will. I think that it is a case by case basis. It is included in the model because male privilege may be used by an abuser. Therefore, as a concept, yes, I believe that male privilege may be used in an abusive relationship.
If anyone is watching the show Home Fires on PBS, there is a very good example of a husband who uses male privilege as part of his abuse tactics. He tells his wife when she can and can not go to the store. He asks her if she feels like he can’t provide for the family financially. He controls everything that goes on in the house – down to what food she can or cannot buy. He expects her to keep everything clean to his standard and work quietly around the house. He makes it clear that he is the man of the house.
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Keith,
And…another problem with the Duluth Model/focus on Male Privilege is that it omits women who are violent and the reasons that they abuse family members: learned behavior/done to them, impulse control, substance abuse, mental illness…same criteria as the guys. I know more than a handful of violent women, some in my own family (sadly).
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Velour – So true on the issue if women. I read an article yesterday about a study being done about mothers who sexually abuse their sons. I think the problem with talking about women being the dv perpetrator is that it is so under-reported by men.
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I do think that the idea of male privilege is a cultural issue, therefore it is labeled as such in the model. However, we all know that it can run from the female perspective as well.
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Keith,
Here’s the documentary Domestic Violence: Power and Control. It is supposed to cover the Duluth Model, including its critics.
I look at the Duluth Model like I do everything else. It was a product of its time. I think 1981. A lot has changed in 34 years about how we as a society view lots of things. But considering the times then, that the police didn’t get involved, women were blamed and told what had they done to get the batterer upset, I can see why “Male Privilege” was given a piece of the Domestic Violence pie.
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Kathi,
Where did you read the sexual abuse article?
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I agree with you, Kathi, about dv being under-reported by men when its the woman who is the aggressor. I can think of a lot of reasons. He’ll be blamed. He may likely be arrested if she turns the tables on him. Why was he a weakling? Why did he let a woman do that to him and why did he take it?
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Velour – It’s a study being done in Australia:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-08/new-research-mothers-who-sexually-abuse-their-sons/6679102
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Thanks, Kathi. I will read it.
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Velour – Thanks for sharing that video. That was very interesting.
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Welcome, Kathi.
Thanks for the article about mothers who sexually abuse their children, especially sons.
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For all those who would like to know how the BGR guy justifies polygamy, look no further than Mat19:1-9. He twists the words of Christ as he says: “A man shall leave his parents, cleave to his wife and the two will become one flesh.” He takes this to mean that a polygamous affair is okay if the man maintains this “one flesh” relationship separately with each wife. Never mind that Christ goes on to say that if a man divorces his wife for any reason other than immorality and marries another woman, he commits adultery. Seems like the guy should have had only one wife to begin with. This smokescreen is so lame that a third grader could see through it. I also looked at a site that exposes traits that are common in white supremacists (narcissism, insecurity and the need to subjugate and control). Yep, he has every one of them. Of course, he directs his degradation toward women instead of minor-
ities
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” I wonder if Author acknowledges that marital rape exists.”
–yes he wrote an article that there is no such thing as marital rape in a Christian marriage and he also stated that porn is ok for Christian men to watch and one of his latest writings says young girls should be married as soon as they start their period since that was what was in the bible (they are more moldable by their husbands) . …it is idiots like this that are causing many to stumble, leave the faith and become outright atheists and I do not blame them.
I am not allowed on his blog because I wrote a comment saying I did not agree with his writing–that I live a life contrary to what he says is gods will for women. (working outside the home and choosing not to have children) I was given a free pass by some of the readers due to my husband having many health issues.
his pen name is larry soloman but his real last name is harriman (not sure of the spelling)
there is also a woman called transformed wife who spouts similar drivel. she often blocks those who disagree with her.
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I think Author’s first wife had an affair so he would free her by getting divorced from her. But it didn’t work. He forgave her. So what did she do…she cheated on him again. Now think about it. Even though he “forgave” her you know he probably became even worse to be married to after cheating on him. The poor woman wanted to give him the grounds to divorce her SO BADLY that she went and cheated on him AGAIN! She was probably grateful it worked the second time. And to think she gave him FIVE babies! Would love to hear her side of the story…
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I’m pretty sure his site is where my ex has obtained his marital advice from as some of his advice seems familiar in the way my ex had demonstrated or treated me. I wouldn’t be surprised. He’s had one failed relationship after me where the girl had claimed he was abusive, and than the following year he married another women … three months after their marriage they appeared separated.
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I don’t have time to read all the 81 comments thus far, and I realize your article was written 5 years ago, but there is an article entitled 7 Steps to Grooming Your Young Christian Wife on that horrid website which specifically states, towards the end of the article, that the author has changed his mind on CDD and now approves of wife spanking. Ugh!
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The author/proprietor of biblical gender roles.com and its even more hideous counterpart biblicalsexology.com is an abusive misogynist and not a single thing more. His beliefs are not Christian. He is simply a dressing Red Pill/Incel beliefs as Christianity, and he needs to be held accountable for his blasphemy.
He promotes rape, all manner of spousal abuse toward wives, and concerning articles dancing around support of pedophilia as he supports “grooming young girls to be obedient Christian wives.” He also has stated that girls should be allowed to be married off as soon as she’s begun menstruation (I was 10 years old for my first period, this man is sick.)
His site also only shows images of white people while making statements about slavery being condoned in the bible and how it should be an acceptable practice to own other humans as property. He openly supports brainwashing and beating women into submission. He openly supports anal rape specifically (whole article on it, absolutely filthy.) He preaches that women may be human but not people in their own right, that a woman has no rights under her husband, no authority over her own body and how it is used. He has a whole article explaining why women are objects and that her feelings and opinions on her husband’s use of her as his property are irrelevant, and that wives who disagree with this concept need to be “disciplined” through any means necessary.
The case against this guy and his abusive advice is staggering and sickening.
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J.N., I totally agree with you. It is truly disgusting that his deplorable ideas are being paraded on the internet as “biblical,” and he does not need to be held accountable for his blasphemy. However, because his views are CLEARLY erroneous and demonic, serious Christian organizations and leaders are likely just ignoring him. “Why give attention to garbage?” may be their mindset.
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Correction: I meant to say he DOES need to be held for his blasphemy. 🙂
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I know this is an old post, but I just want to tell everyone not to take this guy seriously. His real name is Matt Perkins and he is just a measly troll. When you get outraged at him you are just falling into his trap. Ignore him. He doesn’t govern your life. Maybe by now he’s been run out of town.
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I’ve been to the biblical gender roles website and find it utterly appalling. Do you know they don’t even believe women were made in the image of God, only men?? That is disgusting! I left a comment on their wife spanking article but have no idea if it’ll be posted. Honestly, why would any Christian woman ever want to marry u dear these kind of circumstances?? It seems from cradle to grave, a woman is to have no say so at all about her own life. They can quote and misuse all the Scripture they want, treating women like this is NOT biblical. Jesus didn’t treat women like this.
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Meant to say under these kind of circumstances
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what many christians do not realize is the patriarchy IS biblical–but so is murder, rape, war and other terrible deeds–meaning that it is part of the history of the bilble which tells the good bad and ugly about the events of what happened as god reached down for mankind and prepared the world for redemption through Jesus. –but certainly not endorsed as how to live a christian life—people like BGR and now those sites that endorse wife spanking are taking it all out of context and presenting it as what god wants men to do as biblical rules—-. what next? murdering disobedient wives ??!?!?!
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