Crazy Things Church Leaders Say & Do, Doug Wilson, Failure to Report Crimes, Mandatory Reporting, Narcissistic Pastors, Sexual Abuse/Assault and Churches, Spiritual Bullies

Pastor Doug Wilson Accuses Sex Abuse Victim’s Father of Dereliction of Duty as Father – The Jamin Wight Pedophile Case

Julie Anne

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Natalie Rose Greenfield, Pastor Doug Wilson, Christ Church, Pedophile Jamin Wight Sex Abuse Case*

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Doug Wilson, sex abuse, pedophile, Jamin Wight, Christ Church, Steven Sitler

Natalie Rose Greenfield has given me permission to repost her article which follows the background information below.

Natalie is the victim of sexual abuse by Jamin Wight, both whom attended Pastor Doug Wilson’s church, Christ Church, in Moscow, Idaho. Before getting to Natalie’s post, it’s important to summarize the background of Natalie’s story and I’m grateful for R. L. Stollar of Homeschoolers Anonymous, who covered this story so well, The Jamin C. Wight Story: The Other Child Molester in Doug Wilson’s Closet. The following quote and other information in this background comes from this article:

Between the years of 2000 and 2003, Wight — who was 24 years old at the time — groomed and sexually abused a young girl who was only 13 years old when the abuse began. (Wight was only charged for abuse that occurred over 1 year, from 2001 to 2002, but the abuse survivor today says the abuse actually happened over a span of 3 years, from the time she was 13 until she was 16.) Like Wight, the 13 year old girl was also homeschooled. Wight was a boarder at the home where the girl lived, the home being part of Wilson’s student boarding network among Christ Church’s parishioners.

The abuse wrecked havoc on the abused girl. She began experiencing insomnia, stomach ulcers, and panic attacks; she suffered serious behavioral problems, mood swings, and painful flashbacks. In 2004, when she was 17 years old, she confided in a friend about the abuse. That friend convinced her to go to her parents and the police and press charges. This began a long and difficult process for the abuse survivor, a process which reached fruition on August 17, 2005. On that day, after receiving word of the abuse, the girl’s mother filed a criminal complaint against Wight. A warrant for Wight’s arrest was issued the next day. On August 24, 2005, a search warrant was issued the Latah County, Idaho district court for Wight’s personal possessions that provided evidence of the abuse. Court documents show that on October 28, 2005, Wight was arraigned and informed that three charges were being brought against him, one count of Sex Abuse Against a Child and two counts of Lewd Conduct With a Child Under Sixteen Years of Age. Wight pled not guilty to all three charges. Then on May 12, 2006, Wight’s charges were reduced to a Felony Offense of Injury to a Child. Wight pled guilty to that much-reduced charge and was able to made a deal such that he only had to serve 4-6 months in the North Idaho Correctional Institution.

Where does Wilson come in? Here are some important complaints that Natalie has raised and important issues raised in the Homeschoolers Anonymous article:

  • “I was offered little to no support from the church I attended”
  • “on the day of the sentencing my former pastor and my abuser’s pastor sat on *his* side of the courtroom”
  • “We were encouraged to go to mediation rather than to trial, and at the last minute the visiting judge decided the sentence/label of ‘sexual offender’ was too harsh”
  • Wight remained a member of good standing at Christ Church, which understandably presented a very uncomfortable environment for Natalie. Natalie and her father left Christ Church
  • Wilson and Christ Church placed blame on Natalie, saying she consented (at the age of 13!!!)
  • Natalie was placed in church discipline
  • After Natalie left, she received an e-mail saying they would withhold communion until meeting with elders

The common factors in this case and the convicted pedophile case of Steven Sitler, also a Christ Church member are apparent:

Doug Wilson and Christ Church’s actions and words show that he defends pedophiles before victims. “Repentant” pedophiles remain in good standing.

Doug Wilson and Christ Church’s actions show victims and potential victims are not defended, protected, and supported well, if at all.

Below is Natalie’s recent blog post after Wilson has once again been in the public spotlight due to recent updates on the Steven Sitler sex abuse case. I think it is very clear to see that Natalie is not an angry, bitter, vindictive person. She wants the truth to be exposed to prevent it from happening again.  I applaud her for her bravery and honesty in speaking out. ~ja

(I have added paragraphs for easier readability, the content remains entirely unchanged.)

 

When Doug Wrote To My Father

It’s been a while since I’ve blogged here. My general sentiment when it comes to blogging about my experience of sexual abuse within the church is to ‘write when the spirit says write’ and it’s been over a year since I’ve felt the need to do so. This was my last post, if you’re a first-time reader here you can fill yourself in on my backstory there. But in light of the recent and rather broad coverage of the Steven Sitler situation (and tangentially the Jamin Wight situation) I feel the need to issue a current statement of my own and do a little dismantling.

There seems to be a sentiment shared by many of Doug Wilson’s supporters that I am something of a banshee – bitter, angry and screaming lies and slander about the way Christ Church handled the abuse and everything that followed. Only the thing is, I’m not. I desire change, not vengeance. I’m not even worried about getting some personal apology from the church for the pain inflicted on me. Is a mass apology warranted? Absolutely. Are drastic changes in the way the church at large handles sexual abuse called for? Most definitely. But my own personal agenda actually has very little to do with me and everything to do with other innocent women and children in the church.

Every aspect of my story is true, insomuch as it is my perception of the way things happened and unfolded. While I’m pretty certain I know exactly what was in the heart of the criminal who took my innocence and broke my spirit, I can’t pretend to know what was in the heart of Doug and the elders when they stood behind him, and I certainly can’t pretend to know the reasoning behind leaving me out in the cold with no support, no love, compassion, or empathy, not even so much as a consoling pat on the back for all I’d been through. But I have my own theory.

There’s a couple of ideas about this lack of support I received floating around and I’ve heard them over the years – one of them is that the church leaders didn’t feel they were in a position to reach out to me because my father had expressly told them to stay away from his family and reaching out to me would be disrespecting his position as head of our household, which may be true, except there’s a problem with that theory, one that thickens the plot. In the letter pictured below from Doug Wilson to my father, Doug, writing on behalf of the elders of Christ Church, clearly places a great deal of blame on my father for the abuse I suffered and treats him with a coldness and severity that I find heartbreaking.

I truly cannot image being a father who’d just found out his daughter was horrifically abused for years under his roof and then being told his “sin and folly” of not protecting her is equally as distressing as the sins of the criminal who molested his little girl for years. My father was a destroyed man when I came out about my abuse, and what father wouldn’t be? His tears of sadness and broken-ness went on for years, and still to this day he breaks down on occasion and begs my forgiveness for the hurt I suffered, and I always tell him the same thing: It’s not your fault. Because it wasn’t.

I was taken advantage of by a predator who carefully calculated and carried out his crime and he was good at it. He knew how to not get caught and boy was he a master liar. While he lived with our family we had a joke that Jamin Wight could “Wight Wash” things because he was so skilled at successfully shifting blame away from himself in any given situation. The Prosecuting Attorney on the case stated that based on the psycho-sexual evaluation Jamin completed during his short stay at Cottonwood Prison, he was a ‘textbook pedophile’ and at high risk to re-offend with crimes of violent and sexual nature, which of course he did, not with a child as far as anyone knows but with his (now ex) wife.

How my father could be placed at a similar level of blame to this monster is completely unfathomable to me. My father’s response was shock and injury, and while I know there were many previous instances of him realizing this church was not a place particularly well-versed in exhibiting the love of Christ, I believe this was something of a nail in the coffin for him, as would be expected.

I recently spoke with my father about the details of his additional communication with Doug concerning my abuse and it is true that my father told them to stay away from his family, but not until after he saw the despicable way the situation was being handled. In hindsight, perhaps it’s a good thing I wasn’t much ministered to. I knew I was being blamed for a good deal of the ‘sexual sin’ in my abuse from Jamin (not strictly from Doug but also from many other individuals in the church, mostly men and many of whom I had previously considered to be like older brothers to me, who wrote to the judge citing varying degrees of unladylike behaviors and temptress-like qualities I possessed as a 13 year old girl), and while the damage the deafening silence did to my psyche was extensive, it’s now clear to me they had no idea what they were doing. Not a clue. Doug’s daughter, Rachel, admitted as much when we met for coffee late last year to discuss her father’s involvement and my misgivings. She wasn’t privy to many of the details surrounding the situation but her general impression was that nobody really knew what to do for me.

Considering their utter lack of knowledge in dealing with sexual abuse, I shudder to think of what support would have looked like, had I received any. In all fairness to my father, it seems to me that if the church’s version of ‘support’ for him was any indication of the nature of what might have been extended to me, I’d have told them to stay the hell away, too. Isn’t it plain to see? My father was protecting me from what he perceived as potential further harm. From the beginning, Wilson’s intention was not to support me but rather to deflect any blame or responsibility for what had happened. After all, it wouldn’t look good that a member in good standing with the church and attending Greyfriar’s Seminary (and very close to being placed as a pastor of a congregation, I might add) had abused a young girl for the duration of his studies toward a career in pastoral work. Blame the father, swiftly and disproportionately, and perhaps people would be distracted. Defend the criminal and plead for mercy on his behalf and perhaps his crimes wouldn’t seem quite so horrendous. Believe his cries of repentance, welcome him back into the fold, and everybody goes home happy.

Except the family ripped apart by abuse. Fortunately for Wilson, several problematic members of said family left the church hastily and with gaping wounds, making it that much easier to paint them as impulsive crazies, embittered and wayward, unwilling to stay and talk it out like big kids.

So Doug’s current reasoning of respecting the privacy of church members who have confessed sins to him and confided secrets in him during sessions of pastoral counseling doesn’t hold much water from where I stand, not in this case anyway. Yes, my parent’s marriage crumbled and yes, it was messy and of course it had to do with all the shenanigans surrounding the abuse. But that’s no secret. The relentless shaming and mud-slinging my father experienced afterward that in his own words brought him “to a lower place than any man can go to and still be alive”? That might have been a bit of a secret, but not anymore.

No more lies. No more cover up. No more face-saving. It’s time for the church to admit wrongdoing.

We are all human and we make mistakes and sometimes they’re really big ones that hurt a lot of people, and after that happens it’s time to say ‘I’m sorry’ and figure out how you can do things differently in the future so nobody else gets hurt. That’s how I’d explain it to my children, anyhow. Even they understand how to stand up for the small kid on the playground who can’t defend himself against the bully. That’s what Christ would have done, that’s what the church needs to do.

And while this post is not specifically about how we can do things differently in the future to prevent the rampant sexual abuse that takes place in churches worldwide (that’s a topic for another post altogether) let’s please start by doing one thing: Stop writing letters to the judicial system requesting leniency for and lauding the character of sexual criminals. Resounding support from men in positions of leadership and with good reputations among their followers are bound to have quite an effect on a judge’s opinion of a defendant’s character. Especially when the victims are children and teens scarred by abuse and who cannot yet speak for themselves and adequately tell their own stories. Young people who have been shamed into silence from every direction.

This is where I stand: I am not bitter but I am earnest and unashamed. I have nothing to hide, I have told my story and will continue to do so and not because I love telling it, I hate telling it. Believe me when I say it hurts and it dredges up all kinds of old pains that I would love to be rid of forever, but I have to tell it. Because if there is even the smallest chance that telling my story means another little girl doesn’t have to someday, then I will tell it everyday for the rest of my life.

Here’s the letter from Doug to my father:

Natalie Doug Wilson letter 1
Natalie Doug Wilson letter pedophile

photo credit: The church yard via photopin (license)

60 thoughts on “Pastor Doug Wilson Accuses Sex Abuse Victim’s Father of Dereliction of Duty as Father – The Jamin Wight Pedophile Case”

  1. I love this woman Natalie. She’s strong as an oak and she’s leading the charge for ostracized victims the world over. Doug Wilson’s mealy-mouthed equivocating and pathetic attempts at damage control are fooling no one.

    Liked by 4 people

  2. Natalie is an amazing woman! Her father is an amazing man! I am so glad, after reading Natalie’s blog to read that she is a wife, mom, businesswoman and musician and that she has an awesome life!

    If I had only known that Doug Wilson and his church had threatened them with not having communion, I would have gotten on a plane, flown and driven to wherever these dear saints – Natalie and her papa are located – and bought the elements for communion. We would have had communion together! Because we’re *family* in the Body of Christ and that’s what family does!!

    You folks are loved and brave. And we love you in your brokenness and your journey and your healing. And all of those lies that people said about you, were just that…wretched lies. And we don’t believe ’em. We believe you dear folks!

    Love and hugs,

    Velour in California

    Liked by 2 people

  3. I really don’t understand what the letter to her father was for. How was he supposedly derelict at protecting her in their eyes?

    Liked by 1 person

  5. As attorneys across the nation have pointed out, that letter is also called “obstruction of justice” (a crime in all states and under federal law).

    Like

  6. freaking amazing that this guy represents Christianity at all.

    I had no idea who this guy was before he gained notoriety as the Christian ‘foil’ for the wit and intellect of Christopher Hitchens. it’s obvious watching the videos on you tube that Wilson enjoyed that proximity to intellectual debate and fame and it was obvious as well that he acted and spoke as if he was on equal footing.
    now we know more of the character and type of ‘ministry’ and ‘shepherding’ that Pastor Wilson really practices. when does his denomination get involved to remove him from his pulpit and defrock him for his ‘sin and folly’ and dereliction of duty to those in his congregation?
    -mike

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  9. Now we know more of the character and type of ‘ministry’ and ‘shepherding’ that Pastor Wilson really practices. when does his denomination get involved to remove him from his pulpit and defrock him for his ‘sin and folly’ and dereliction of duty to those in his congregation?
    -mike

    It’s my understanding that Wilson is not part of any traditional church organization, that he is independent and founded his own denomination. He appears to be answerable to no one.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. what denominational organization is he accountable to?

    There isn’t one. Doug Wilson’s church is affiliated with no existing denomination.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Doug and his church should be sued. That’s the only real remedy here.
    There’s also a possibility that Doug committed obstruction of justice with the letter printed above, by coercing Natalie and her family into not testifying in open court. As such, it’s possible he could be charged with a felony depending on the statute of limitations. It’s a real uphill battle, though, given how long ago this mess occurred.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Here’s Doug Wilson flatly denying any wrongdoing whatsoever (see comments section- someone may want to get a screenshot for posterity):

    http://dougwils.com/the-church/true-glue.html#disqus_thread

    Doug admits to drinking expensive whiskey in the following blog post, exact quote ” In this case, Nancy — a Puritan jewel — celebrated by buying me a nice bottle of Laphroaig” (Laphroaig is a Scottish whiskey at $60/bottle):

    http://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/the-high-mountain-air-of-public-calumny.html

    Is he drinking to excess at this point? A flat denial of wrongdoing in writing at this stage despite all public outcries to the contrary reads like someone in the throes of alcohol.

    Like

  17. My grandfather was a highly intelligent and functional but still hideously abusive alcoholic. I know the signs when I see them. There’s no confirmation without proof of course, but whiskey is not an amateur’s drink. I know firsthand from personal experience.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. @Dash, I have been thinking the same things about DW. Whether someone *put the plug in the jug* and is a *dry drunk* or they are active…this behavior is substance abuse behavior.

    I was listening to the The Blues tonight and here’s a perfect Beth Hart song
    “Your Heart is as Black as Night”…and I thought it was the perfect song for the guy in Moscow, ID.

    Like

  20. “The Trial” by Roger Waters & Bob Ezrin

    Stop!
    I wanna go home
    Take off this uniform
    And leave the show.
    But I’m waiting in this cell
    Because I have to know.
    Have I been guilty all this time?

    Good morning, Worm your honor.
    The crown will plainly show
    The prisoner who now stands before you
    Was caught red-handed showing feelings
    Showing feelings of an almost human nature;
    This will not do.
    Call the schoolmaster!

    I always said he’d come to no good
    In the end your honor.
    If they’d let me have my way I could
    Have flayed him into shape.
    But my hands were tied,
    The bleeding hearts and artists
    Let him get away with murder.
    Let me hammer him today?

    Crazy,
    Toys in the attic I am crazy,
    Truly gone fishing.
    They must have taken my marbles away.
    Crazy, toys in the attic he is crazy.

    You little sh*t you’re in it now,
    I hope they throw away the key.
    You should have talked to me more often
    Than you did, but no! You had to go
    Your own way, have you broken any
    Homes up lately?
    Just five minutes, Worm your honor,
    Him and Me, alone.

    Baaaaaaaaaabe!
    Come to mother baby, let me hold you
    In my arms.
    M’lud I never wanted him to
    Get in any trouble.
    Why’d he ever have to leave me?
    Worm, your honor, let me take him home.

    Crazy,
    Over the rainbow, I am crazy,
    Bars in the window.
    There must have been a door there in the wall
    When I came in.
    Crazy, over the rainbow, he is crazy.

    The evidence before the court is
    Incontrovertible, there’s no need for
    The jury to retire.
    In all my years of judging
    I have never heard before
    Of someone more deserving
    Of the full penalty of law.
    The way you made them suffer,
    Your exquisite wife and mother,
    Fills me with the urge to defecate!

    “Hey Judge! Sh*t on him!”

    Since, my friend, you have revealed your
    Deepest fear,
    I sentence you to be exposed before
    Your peers.
    Tear down the wall!

    Like

  21. Thanks, Dash. I just listened to it. Spot on song too. For all of our losses from coming out of these authoritarian churches/systems…you, Julie Anne, Natalie and her dad, and me…I am glad we are out! Woo hoo!!!

    Like

  24. Something is seriously WRONG when a certain church, ministry , college or school has numerous cases of pedophilia. What are the odds ? Pedophilia is actually very rare in comparison to all other sex offenses. So why is it that Rev. Scumbag Wilson seems to be running a fellowship for pedophiles ?

    Reminds me of the “SGM pedophile club ” . Personally I’m beginning to wonder if Doug Wilson is running something much more sinister than a whacked out reformed church. His letter to Natalie’s father oozes condescension like pus from an open wound. I find Wilson to be one of the most disgusting people I have ever encountered. His patronizing superiority kick is beyond revolting and I place him in the same category of scum as the pedophiles he repeatedly advocates for.

    Ask yourselves, why would a legitimate pastor, a man of GOD defend pedophiles while ignoring victims and worse, treat them with distain ? I’m betting we haven’t heard the last of this type of thing from this vile advocate of degenerates.
    Anyone taking their kids to Wilson’s church should have their parental rights terminated. A 13 year old child can NOT consent to being molested by an adult you sicko degenerate.

    Disclaimer: Obviously these are my thoughts being expressed, my opinion and doesn’t necessarily reflect the views of anyone else, unless they see Doug Wilson for the whiskey drinking creepy bastard that he is. Has anyone checked to see if he is on the Ashley Madison list ? Maybe his fellow reformed, dingbat drunkard, and wife spanker RC Sproul Jr hooked him up with a two pervs for one low price deal.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Scott, I don’t think Wight is a pedophile. An ephebephile maybe but more probably an opportunistic predator. You are right though. It seems odd that Wilson would be involved with two sex offenders.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. I read over at blog and mablog years back and could not believe that DW was actually able to make a living with his behavior and views. I was pretty naive back then. I could not believe his bold arrogance, pseudo intellectualism and total ignorance. He was so obviously a man who thought himself urbane and clever that I could not believe it did not put more people off him.

    But, I thought he was so overdoing it that it came off as desperate in so many ways. A sort of carnival act. Like he was trying to convince himself and being so bold as to demand the name of a commenter’s pastor so he could call them and demand discipline because of a comment!

    But after years of looking at this stuff, I realized that narcissists are very clever at sucking people into their world and then creating chaos, doling out faint praise here and there and managing people.

    I hate to say this but people eat this shock jock stuff up either by agreeing or arguing with him. DW loves nothing more than to be argued with. It is where he really shines and the more outrageous he is in a wordsmithy manner, the better.

    What would be the absolute worst fate to befall DW? That NO ONE paid attention to him. That people flicked him off as a gnat on an elephants bottom. That no one came and no one paid. No one listened to him. That would be death for him.

    I think he is having the time of his life. He has never had so much attention. And even the Baylys are giving him fodder. Wilson will become the victim because no one else can think as well as he can. They just cannot see his truth that only he has to impart to others.

    Wilson is the least likely candidate to have an epiphany. I would not hold out much hope on that one. Of course, I believe in free will so I think he has a choice as to what he believes and how he behaves. I might buy into the idea his conscious is seared.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. @Scott,
    I think the whole patriarchy movement is a sexual predators’ haven. After all, the whole invention of it – to silence women and girls and make them *subjects* and *obey* and *submit* – was invented by sexual predators who used it to groom and abuse victims. We’ve seen that in Gothard, Philips, and the Duggars. And on and on.

    I saw it at my former patriarchal Neo Cal church where I was excommunicated and shunned from, for standing my ground with the pastors/elders who brought their friend a Megan’s List sex offender to church, gave him a position of trust, membership, access to everything (including with children present), said he was fine,
    and did not tell all adults and members. For raising the issue of children’s safety, my pastors/elders closed their meeting with me by reading me a Scripture verse in somber tones that I was *destined for Hell*. (I watched the sex offender target my friends’ 4 year old son, running his hands through the child’s hair. My friends didn’t see it and didn’t know the man was a sex offender. The pastors/elders told me to never tell them and it was *fine*. I told my friends after my excommunication/shunning. They packed up and moved hours away under the pretext of *being near family*. If they hadn’t done that, they would have been excommunicated/shunned too.)

    Like

  29. Well , on second thought maybe child molesting sicko super perv would be a better description. Doug Wilson, Jim Jones / Warren Jeffs wannabe. He should drink his own kook-aid.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. Hi All,

    Here is another resource from the Hinton family. Pastor Jimmy Hinton turned in his dad for sexually abusing children at the church they have both pastored. Brenda, who posts on this blog, mentioned mom Clara Hinton’s website called Finding a Healing Place. (Thanks Brenda. Great website!) What a brave and courageous family for doing the right thing when it came to a pedophile in their own family (the father is currently serving a long prison sentence.)

    Here is a helpful video from Jimmy Hinton on the Resources tab at Finding a Healing Place about protecting children from sexual abuse.

    http://www.findingahealingplace.com/resources-that-will-help/

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Isn’t “Wight” the short-eyes whose picture has this incredibly smug sneer of “I WIN, You Stupid Suckers!”?

    The sneer of a sociopath who’s away from any witnesses (except maybe his prey) and lets drop the Angel of Light mask?

    Like

  33. @Velour:
    Doubly so when you realize that Jimmy Hinton is a “Pastor Junior” who inherited his church and pulpit from Daddy.

    Like

  34. Trust me Marsha I know you weren’t defending him ( I have been here since the early days google reviews and all ) and have read many of your posts. While your term may be technically correct, to me he is a super-perv as Trump describes that other weirdo dude Anthony Weenier.

    There is this move within many states to continually lower the age of consent, I disagree with that. Just because our country has become more immoral with children having sex at earlier and earlier ages, doesn’t mean we should decriminalize adult-child sex.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. “@Velour:
    Doubly so when you realize that Jimmy Hinton is a “Pastor Junior” who inherited his church and pulpit from Daddy.” – H.U.G.

    Hi HUG,

    I know that you have posted that response to me here and over at The Wartburg Watch. I honestly don’t get *why* though, and your tone.

    I know plenty of people who have gone into the same profession as their parents (lawyers, doctors, nurses, teachers, farmers/ranchers, plumbers, construction, and yes — pastors). So what?

    I think it is commendable that this son:

    a) turned in his own pastor father for sexually abusing children in their church (and having done it for years in secret; the father is now serving a life sentence in prison for having sexually abused at least 23 known victims);
    b) didn’t lie and cover up for his father;
    c) didn’t lash out and harm the victims and their families;
    d) he and his mother (Clara Hinton), as well as other members of their family, have become very transparent about how pedophiles work and what they all *missed* in husband/father/pastor and his grooming of church families and child victims
    e) they have become advocates for abused children and to prevent child abuse.

    My hat is off to them. What more could you ask for, H.U.G.? (When most churches and people and families get this wrong – handling sexual abuse child victims- this family handled it correctly and did more than just that. Standing ovation from me to them!!!)

    Liked by 1 person

  36. Velour, I think that HUG meant that Jimmy could have acted in his own self interest and covered up the abuse to protect his own career since it was associated with his father and the church he founded. So it is doubly commendable – he turned in his father AND mentor.

    Like

  37. “Fortunately for Wilson, several problematic members of said family left the church hastily and with gaping wounds, making it that much easier to paint them as impulsive crazies, embittered and wayward, unwilling to stay and talk it out like big kids.”
    _______________________________

    This so often happens in a destructive cult. So often the only reason some members are perceived as “problematic” is because they’re the ones being led by the Holy Spirit and simply cannot stomach what’s going on, so they speak up. In the alternative, they’re the ones dealing with the bulk of the abuse at the hands of a sociopathic or NPD leader (often behind the scenes such that the rank-and-file members are not privy to what’s occurring), so naturally they’re being driven mad from the psychological terror being inflicted upon them; a person suffering from PTSD can often be a very difficult person. The evil-doers causing it can so often assume a smooth outer persona and make outsiders assume the victim is the crazy one (and maybe they are, but often they’re made that way by an evil one).

    This is why Paul was so strident in his condemnation of the super-apostles and his anger towards those in the church who “gladly put up with fools” and “with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or puts on airs or slaps you in the face.” We need to expose the evil, not turn the other way and become a part of it to just get along and have some fantasy of a church community.

    Like

  38. “DW loves nothing more than to be argued with. It is where he really shines and the more outrageous he is in a wordsmithy manner, the better.”
    ________________________________________________

    Where he thinks he shines. I am something of a professional at this: speaking, teaching in higher ed, logic, rhetoric, etc. From what I’ve seen of Mr. Wilson’s reasoning and arguing, he is rather poor at it, an ignoramus, he is a charlatan, a nonentity as far as reasoned debate goes. He does not know what he is doing but is a draw to others who know even less, the blind leading the blind.

    Liked by 3 people

  39. Speaking of DW, I think he is slick – the sort of slick attributed to Bill Clinton. He’s back to his usual wordsmithy posts with an air of smug confidence. He’s kept the *twitter mobs* and bloggers that are on to him at bay. So….now it’s time to go back to his wordsmithiness. Not surprisingly, he’s begun moderating his blog – something he just started since the Sitler and Wight cases have been revisited on the Internet. I think the heat was on and getting to close so he had to start controlling the conversations over there. A few have been banned from his site and their comments can no longer be seen. They have been labeled as his *adversaries* but the truth is: their comments exposed his egregious errors as someone who calls themselves a pastor. They had to be silenced.

    Liked by 2 people

  40. Speaking of DW, I think he is slick – the sort of slick attributed to Bill Clinton.

    But without Clinton’s people-pleaser charisma. As someone said once citing Clinton as an example of charisma, “Even when you know he’s a crook, it’s impossible NOT to like the guy.” I very much doubt DW is “likeable”.

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  41. @Marsha:

    Velour, I think that HUG meant that Jimmy could have acted in his own self interest and covered up the abuse to protect his own career since it was associated with his father and the church he founded. So it is doubly commendable – he turned in his father AND mentor.

    That IS what I meant. You hear so much on these spiritual abuse blogs of preacher dynasties passing on churches from father to son like any personal inheritance (to the point it’s become a running joke), and normally the son’s a Mini-Me of Daddy who’d never go against Daddy who gave him all the spiritual power.

    Remember Bob Griener of Calvary Chapel Visalia and his clone and heir to the throne Bob Juniorr? Bob Jones (three generations and looks like a fourth in waiting)? All those IFB churches snarked on “Stuff Fundies Like”?

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  43. “Bob Jones (three generations and looks like a fourth in waiting)”

    HUG: It’s called Protestant Apostolic Succession.

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  45. Hi Marsha and H.U.G.,

    Thanks Marsha for interpreting H.U.G.’s post to me; thanks for confirming what you meant H.U.G. (I am not really in a joking mood when talking about sex crimes and I treat the subject with the gravity.)

    By the way, the church where Pastor Jimmy Hinton is a pastor was not his pastor/father/pedophile father’s church plant/business creation, etc. The church is part of the Church of Christ denomination and was started more than 100 years ago.

    I think Jimmy Hinton did a brave thing, the right thing, and it’s terribly unusual in many families. Ditto mom Clara Hinton. And the rest of their family. I posted Jimmy’s child safety video at the top of the page here in the Off Topic Discussion section.

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  46. *raises eyebrows*
    I usually stay out of stuff like this. But seeing as how it is all one sided:
    I know the general reaction to all of this is distaste. Which it should be. But as someone who was actually there during the Wight case and actually heard both sides, I can tell you that Natalie Rose’s account is filled with some pretty little white lies. So saying that she’s not vindictive or vengeful is so completely off the mark that it’s funny. As long as you’re hearing only one flawed side of the story (and believe me there is certainly another side) from only one person who was involved all you’re doing is spreading senseless gossip, which is harmful on all sides. Good luck with that, my lovelies.
    *covers head from stray scathing replies* Don’t hate me, I’ve never liked Doug Wilson’s church. xP

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  47. I think it’s perfectly appropriate for those who have been spiritually abused to use a pseudonym. In fact, I encourage it. However, I think it’s pretty lame for someone to come to a blog, blame a victim, and then leave an anonymous comment. Natalie is a victim and gave permission to use her name. That should say it all.

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  48. I don’t know what you think Natalie did, Truly, so I will say this. Wanting someone to be prosecuted and/or objecting to a plea bargain is not being vengeful; it is asking for justice. Not wanting to see someone who criminally offended against you at church is not vindictiveness, it is asking for support with healing.

    Other side? What other side? Don’t tell me that Natalie consented because she a 23 year old man cannot legally get consent for sex from a 13 year old.

    Natalie has gone on to live a productive life. Wight was convicted of a felony injury to a child for his abuse of her. Last year he was convicted of domestic violence. Wight had the chance to tell ‘the other side’ in court, both times, and both times he pled guilty. There is no other side any more.

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  49. “One flawed side of the story?” A 24-year-old man has a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old girl. No other “side of the story” is going to make that look better. Other men have been jailed and registered as sex offenders for less than what he did. Churches supporting the perps is, sadly, all too common. Nice try, sugar booger. No hate here.

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  52. Oh and Truly, you might be interested to know that Peter Leithart has publicly repented for his role in supporting Wight. He has recognized that Wight manipulated him, that he should not have believed ‘his side’ over Natalie’s parents’ account and he has apologized to Natalie and her parents.

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  53. After “Truly”‘s curious post above, mitigating the seriousness of felony sexual abuse of a child/sex crimes (and later the domestic violence committed by the sex offender against his wife, whom he strangled (she lived) and he got jail time for that), it is a sad day when the poster defends a defendant who is violent to adults and children alike. Yesterday this sex offender’s former pastor made a good Facebook post, below.

    https://www.facebook.com/Leithart

    “A message from Peter J. Leithart

    I write this with a great deal of reluctance. I have refrained from making any public statements about the recent internet turmoil over two sexual abuse incidents that took place in Moscow, Idaho while I worked there as a faculty member at New St Andrews College and served as pastor of Trinity Reformed Church. I have been concerned that anything I say would add fuel to an overheated debate.

    Besides, I’m ambivalent about the wisdom of hashing through these terrible events on media that are poorly suited to the careful, sensitive treatment that sexual abuse demands. Evil must be exposed, but I doubt that the internet is the best place to do it. Inevitably, the ones who are most wholly forgotten are the ones who were most deeply damaged.

    A few friends, though, have urged me to say something publicly, since, as has been reported, I was pastor of one of the abusers. These friends thought it would be useful for me to clarify my actions and offer my retrospective assessment of my performance as pastor. Other leaders from Trinity or Christ Church might see things differently, and my comments below are not intended as criticism of them or anyone else. I speak only for myself.

    First, I was pastor at Trinity Reformed Church when a member of the church, Jamin Wight, was charged with sexually abuse of a minor, a young teenage girl. By the time I learned of the abuse, it had ceased.

    Second, the report implies that I sided with Jamin. That is accurate in some ways. I did sit with him in court, as the report claims; I visited and wrote to Jamin while he was in his court-ordered program; I continued to be his friend and pastor. I believed, and still believe, that I had a duty to provide pastoral counsel and care to Jamin. Neither I nor the other elders at Trinity ignored or excused Jamin’s sin, and there was no attempt on my part or Doug Wilson’s to cover it up.

    Third, it is true, as was reported, that Jamin remained a member “in good standing” at Trinity. That means that he did not come under formal church discipline and was not excommunicated. It does not mean we excused his sin. We rebuked him, and I and the elders of Trinity admonished him repeatedly to repent fully. At the time, I believed he was repentant.

    It is clear now that I made major errors of judgment. Fundamentally, I misjudged Jamin, badly. I thought he was a godly young man who had fallen into sin. That was wrong. In the course of trying to pastor Jamin through other crises in his life, I came to realize that he is deceptive and highly manipulative, and that I allowed him to manipulate me. A number of the things I said about Jamin to the congregation and court at the time his abuse was uncovered were spun in Jamin’s favor; I am ashamed to realize that I used Jamin’s talking points. Though I never doubted that Jamin was guilty, I trusted his account of the circumstances more readily and longer than I should have, and conversely I disbelieved the victim’s parents (to the best of my recollection, I had no direct contact with the victim, who was a member of Christ Church). I should have seen through Jamin, and didn’t.

    As a result, I didn’t appreciate how much damage Jamin did and I was naive about the effect that the abuse had on the victim’s family. I recently asked her and her parents to forgive my pastoral failures, which they have done.

    – Peter J. Leithart”

    Liked by 1 person

  54. Good for Peter Leithart! Wow. Apologies like that go a long, loooong way toward healing. I wish Doug Wilson would do the same, but it takes a big man– not to mention a real Christian– to be able to do that.

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  56. Very relieved to read the above from Mr. Leithart. It’s about time that someone involved in these sordid cases admitted that the “kirk” messed up so badly. Hopefully, this will get more people in Moscow actually thinking, instead of just parroting the party line.

    P.S. to “Truly”: If you know “certainly” that there’s another side to this story, then why don’t you tell us what it is? Since you’ve accused Natalie of lying, why don’t you explain to us how she’s lied? Your words so far don’t give you a lot of credibility here. Right now, Peter Leithart has a whole lot more than you.

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  57. Some satire inspired by none other than the Reverends Peter Leithart and Slug Wilson (as well as some other [awful] people). LOL:

    Jay Dyer refuted by the Calvinist Corner:

    Professor Peter McWilson Refutes More Heresy:

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  58. I hope that Peter will continue to repent for the harm he has caused the Greenfield family. Apparently there is still unfinished business as Natalie’s father Gary Greenfield posted this over at Katie Botkin’s website yesterday at 10:21 p.m. about Peter’s letter:

    “Dear Peter, As I stated in my last letter to you, yes, I do forgive you for your pastoral failures in regards to the way you dealt with Natalie’s abuse. What you have to this day neglected to repent of is your complicity in ripping our marriage apart with your own abusive and irresponsible accusations against me in front of my wife. When we came to you for pastoral care regarding our marriage, I knew I was going into the lions den when we met with you but I was desperate to win my wife back and she is the one who insisted on meeting with you. It is still vivid in my memory watching my wife break down emotionally and run out of the restaurant we met at because of your accusations against me of being a heretic and idolator because I was embracing the ancient faith of Eastern Orthodoxy.”

    http://kbotkin.com/2015/09/10/the-letter-on-christ-church-stationary/#comment-8282

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