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Jim Bob and Michelle and Josh Duggar release statements related to reports of Josh’s sexual infidelity
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This is a followup post to this article:
Josh Duggar Reportedly Had Account at Ashley Madison, the Site Used to Help Married People Find Someone with Whom to Have an Extramarital Affair
Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, along with their son, Josh Duggar, released a statement today regarding Josh’s marital unfaithfulness and sex addiction. The statement was released on Michelle’s blog at the Duggar’s family website. Not long after the statement was released, it was removed. In fact, Michelle’s whole blog page cannot be accessed at this time.
I still had the statement opened on my cell phone and captured screen shots (it took a few to get the whole content):
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This is how the site looks now:
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It’s puzzling why they statement is gone, especially when the rest of the site is working fine. We’ll have to wait and see what is going on. Let’s remember to pray for this family and their children.
I hope this is a wake-up call to the destructive teachings the Duggars have espoused and promoted. This family has adhered to Patriarchy for so long, and this example once again shows the pattern of how women are treated as objects for men’s personal satisfaction.
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UPDATE 12:30 pm (Pacific): Now there is a new statement here. Are there differences?
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Update #2 I did a comparison. the green font is the new version. The black font is the old version and bolded where there is a difference in content. ~ja
I have been the biggest hypocrite ever. While espousing faith and family values, I have been unfaithful to my wife.
I have been the biggest hypocrite ever. While espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife.
I am so ashamed of the double life that I have been living and am grieved for the hurt, pain and disgrace my sin has caused my wife and family, and most of all Jesus and all those who profess faith in Him.
(Same content) I am so ashamed of the double life that I have been living and am grieved for the hurt, pain and disgrace my sin has caused my wife and family, and most of all Jesus and all those who profess faith in Him.
I have brought hurt and a reproach to my family, close friends and the fans of our show with my actions.
I brought hurt and a reproach to my family, close friends and the fans of our show with my actions that happened when I was 14-15 years old, and now I have rebroken their trust.
The last few years, while publicly stating I was fighting against immorality in our country I was hiding my own personal failures.
The last few years, while publicly stating I was fighting against immorality in our country, in my heart I had allowed Satan to build a fortress that no one knew about.
As I am learning the hard way, we have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. I deeply regret all the hurt I have caused so many by being such a bad example.
(Same content) As I am learning the hard way, we have the freedom to choose to our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. I deeply regret all hurt I have caused so many by being such a bad example.
I humbly ask for your forgiveness. Please pray for my precious wife Anna and our family during this time.
(Same content) I humbly ask for your forgiveness. Please pray for my precious wife Anna and our family during this time.
Josh Duggar
Spiritual Sounding Board 
I don’t understand why they’d remove that post. It actually was the closest thing to “real” I’ve seen from any of them in all this, especially Josh’s statement (although I emphatically disagree that he allowed Satan to build a fortress; Josh himself built that fortress).
So much destruction, that lifestyle. Patriarchy in all its forms is no more healthy for families than the “anything goes” mentality.
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My first thought is an attorney or a publicity agent told them to yank it. I hope they clear this up, too!
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One of the things I learned from Jerald and Sandra Tanner, back in the day when I was studying Mormonism, is if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
I’m waiting for confirmation that this really happened, and that it wasn’t due to the site being hacked.
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Well, I guess we’ll have to see if anything changes as the day goes on. It could be too many people trying to access it causing system overload. I hope that’s all it is as that apology is the only thing even close to right in this whole mess.
(I’m still upset about the Daily Mail article and Ashley Madison in general.)
But frankly, I think that apology belongs on the front home page of their site, not buried on Michelle’s blog, anyway.
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I agree that this is the most real thing I’ve seen out of Josh about this whole mess. But, yet again, Satan is to blame. There is no personal responsibility. Then again, this is the patriarchy, so…
Such a shame. I hope that Anna leaves him. Perhaps for only a time, perhaps for forever. She does NOT need to be around Josh’s “rebuilding” efforts. Because she is just going to be sucked in and told to suck it up like a good little patriarchy slave.
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“although I emphatically disagree that he allowed Satan to build a fortress; Josh himself built that fortress”
Agreed. Did anyone else notice that there were two different statements? The second statement is a little different, and leaves out the “I had allowed Satan to build a fortress that no one knew about” part.
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OK. So they removed it to put up a revised version.
But I’m still getting page error at the link.
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The modified statement no longer includes a candor reference to Josh’s Internet pornography addiction and infidelity.
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I just updated the post again with the newly released statement and a comparison of old version vs new version. ~ja
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@Bit
Try this one:
http://www.duggarfamily.com/2015/8/statements-from-jim-bob-and-michelle-duggar-and-josh-duggar
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“The modified statement no longer includes a candor reference to Josh’s Internet pornography addiction and infidelity.”
Yeah. I guess they figured he needn’t admit to something he hadn’t yet been busted for. Oooops.
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Good job, Julie Anne. The fourth original statement should be color coded green.
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Thanks, David
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doubleplusungood ref doubleplusunpost.
memhole.
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@Ashterah:
This is called “The Geraldine Defense” after the famous Flip Wilson skit:
“THE DEBBIL MADE ME DO IT!”
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
…sorry, I know that’s not much of a contribution.
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@Persephone:
Maybe that’s why “as of now, It Never Existed”.
Because it was “the closest thing to real” from them and That Cannot Be.
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From this article from people (emphasis mine)
“none of the Duggars think Josh is to blame” for the tremendous fallout, says the source. Instead, it is the officials who released the police records about Josh and his young victims who are the focus of the family’s anger.”
Nice. So who will be the object of the Duggars’ scorn this time? The hackers? Ashley Madison?
My money is on Josh’s wife Anna’s failure as a wife.
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I’m having a problem with the words that were left out. (I’m also laughing that he thinks nobody would take screen shots of the original statement.). Why would he remove pornography and secret addictions? Now it looks like he’s trying to hide that. This new statement is a step back in being completely open and honest with his sins. I am very disappointed in this.
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Sadly my hopes failed me. All things considered I probably shouldn’t be surprised, but it’s still disappointing.
Then again, this is consistent with what we know of sexual predators and those with sexual addictions. His parents didn’t do him any favors with the initial “counseling” he got as a teenager.
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Hey, Julie Anne, great job keeping up on top of it and the use of screen shots 🙂
I think Ashley Madison was a pick-up site, not a porn site? If so, either Josh’s first confession copped to porn addiction which wasn’t revealed in the hack, or he was attempting to slip sideways and confess to a ‘lesser’ wrong. Leaving it out avoids addressing either issue.
And of course ‘debbil made me do it’, is commonly understood to be a corny excuse, and I’ll bet someone told him, ‘yeah no, that won’t do’.
I’d bet a lawyer suggested removal of his earlier wrong, that bit about 14-15 etc. Pointing it out again when he’d already (sort of) confessed might be considered, too, well, honest or something. Esp if he’s avoiding putting word to what he actually did this time.
I feel really sorry for him but also weary and angry. I feel deeply sorry for his wife. Oh, how I hope she can gather her courage and get the heck out of Dodge!
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Good point about removing the 14-15 years reference, Patrice. I had heard the non-family victim was planning to sue him, so for him to admit it publicly wouldn’t do too well for him.
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There is still a cached version of the original statement:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.duggarfamily.com/michelles-blog?ID=651536de-8b7d-4525-afb0-3f525bc390e1
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“…so for him to admit it publicly wouldn’t do too well for him.” I’d not thought of that. You’re right, I’m sure.
Do you think the bit about ‘porn’ rather than ‘affair’ makes sense? Or at least, ‘attempted affair’ (since we don’t know whether he got his extra money’s worth for guaranteed success.)
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Yes, it does make sense, Patrice. But now altering that part only draws more attention and speculation to it. Revising it was a bad idea!
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It seems that a porn addiction is very different from seeking an affair. Josh said he has been addicted for “the last several years.” His AM accounts don’t go back that far from what we know.
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Gawker and other sites are all over the modifications from the original statement. What he is no longer saying in the revised statement is now the news.
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I love how Gawker edited the original statement to the current statement.
I have to wonder (and this makes me very sad to think about) if Josh really did want to come clean with everything. What if he really wanted to make a full confession, but the machine he is a part of is writing the script now?
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Perhaps removing the language about porn addiction is due to some legal obligation he signed with an employer or sponsor?
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When you try to white wash sin it JUST GETS DARKER.
A more appropriate statement would have been : Please pray for me as I going into long term treatment for some deep issues that I can’t deal with on my own. I’m seeking spiritual & mental counseling as I examine if I’m truly born again. Obviously I have failed miserably at living as a new creature in Christ. I have been playing a role. I repent and beg the forgiveness of the only person that real matters in this failing of mine, my wife who trusted me.
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When he was an intern for Holt, he was caught looking at porn. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2015/07/news-josh-duggar-and-porn-on-the-campaign-trail/
We were told that he became a Christian and repented after sexually abusing his sisters and the other girl. Now we understand that he was into porn at the age of 16. And he used the words “the last several years” now? What does several mean? From 16 until 27? It seems likely.
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But Scott, mental health is of the devil in these circles. Only approved Biblical counseling works, right?
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Reblogged this on Speakingtruthinlove's Blog.
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Julie wrote, “Revising it was a bad idea!” Too true. But even worse was admitting to something different than what he was caught for, especially since, as BTDT writes, “…a porn addiction is very different from seeking an affair. Josh said he has been addicted for “the last several years.” His AM accounts don’t go back that far from what we know.”
Why would someone do that? And in front of everyone, all across the country, many who are not sympathetic thus not easily convinced? Arrrrggghhh!
The rest of it sounded really lovely and I wanted to believe him, you know? I wanted him to be saying what Scott wrote above. I want him to get help and then to make restitution to the women in his life.
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I know, Patrice, when I first saw the statement and the concern for the victims, I was proud of him and hopeful. Ugh. I’m so tired of this.
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Whoa, it looks like there were several versions:
https://twitter.com/milowent/status/634464294298603520
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I tend to think the revised statement is an improvement. (please, no rocks)
When the first para was shortened and porn removed to simply say he was unfaithful to Anna – it leaves no doubt in the reader’s mind. Prior to the edit, his fans *could* have interpreted the sex addiction/porn as the “end all/be all” of his acting out and source of unfaithfulness.
I say this because I wrote a similar letter mailed to family and friends last month, explaining the difficult situation of my pending divorce, my h’s 30yr sex addiction, and his abuse. My first draft left details vague and my parents pointed out that doing so left room in the mind of my audience to fill in either positive or negative directions. They advocated more specifics – change sex addiction to porn, specifically and describe what abuse is. Although I balked, I could see their point.
I think Josh’s letter here does the same. In many “religious” patriarchy circles, I wouldn’t be surprised if the tendency would be to “push back” against grounds for separation or divorce or treatment or (fill in the blank) if the original statement stood. Porn and/or can be explained away in their minds as not “technically” unfaithful. Stripping back to bare bones removes ALL doubt and calls a spade a spade – as much as they might be willing to do for now.
I do have to point out that I am disappointed to see he is blame shifting immediately in the 2nd para: “…am grieved for the hurt, pain and disgrace MY SIN has caused….” No, Josh. YOU caused the hurt, pain and disgrace. Don’t distance yourself or shift responsibility. Until you can OWN it you will not be walking in repentance.
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Charis, good point about porn being a more dismissible wrong. Unfortunately, Josh didn’t replace it with more accurate specifics as your parents advised you to do (wise parents, sweet!!).
I did not notice the passive “sin has caused”. You are correct. Blech.
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I don’t trust any Christian who uses the phrase, “most of all I hurt Jesus.”
John said “How can you say you love God, who you have not met, when you hate your brother who you know.” I do not believe that cheating spouses love their spouses. It is a form of hate to cheat on your spouse IMO. The other phrase he used which reveals untrustworthiness is the need to add “humble” to how he is apologizing. What other kind of apology is there?
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“When the first para was shortened and porn removed to simply say he was unfaithful to Anna – it leaves no doubt in the reader’s mind.”
Someone on TWW brought up another point that I hadn’t thought of.
“I wonder if the statements were changed because a person with his history admitting to a porn addiction could be cause for a warrant to seize his computers to check for child porn? I really wouldn’t be suprised.”
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2015/08/19/another-duggar-disaster-josh-tantalized-by-forbidden-fruit/comment-page-1/#comment-214156
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Thanks BTDT. That link worked. 🙂
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1. Since when does modesty cause men to desire more pornography? The connections are not clear how that works. men will lust after a swimsuit or a towel……makes no difference. both are equal playing fields for fire. one just offers more coverup…..just same fire.
2. It is sad that he got into stuff like that. Apparently there is nothing wrong the website but there is something wrong with ‘josh duggar’….. why are people not targeting the website?
3. polyamory is common. if the wife approved of the behaviour then the media is just digging for treasures. maybe this Josh duggar really is’nt interested in anything GODLY. no man should be forced to OBEY the ‘good shepherd’ or the shepherd wouldn’t be good.
4. we’ll just have to see how the wife reacts or doesn’t react.
5. Honestly the people that supported the family in the first problem with Josh making news in the molestation charges are NOT confused for supporting them…..any more than the usa is catering to the ‘good muslim’ values. They understand human conditions fail. But if the repentant has SEVERE problems like ‘terrorism’ or ‘pornography’……that is where the line is drawn in the sand. enough is enough. JOSH DUGGAR is clearly a wicked man and is NOT a christ follower.
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Ps. clearly these behaviours or the supporters of home education who even supported him in the first case, are not confused for assuming there was such a repentant heart. It is HARD to judge men and women through articles and computer screens…. his behaviours are not reflected upon home education families or even religious home education families. These behaviours are personally driven pride….. perhaps on the parents…… perhaps on the case of Josh Duggar himself. Who are we to judge if the man wants to gamble in vegas???? or just come down to earth…. and follow gospel for what it is….with no ‘media tricks’… does public education magically remove these evils any better? one would be unsurprised that it actually does far worse….. the duggar family must ‘shun’ this man….. as the amish have known…..was neccesary.
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Remember this from Dustin’s post?
“They will see his “mea culpa’s” and the statement he released, rife with gospel explanation and repentant contrition, as just another silly thing he lied about and used to insulate himself from further criticism.”
After the changing of statements on the Duggars’ site, why should we believe what he is saying is true?
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Pretty crazy stuff being posted here.
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“Insanity is part of these times!
You must learn to EMBRACE THE MADNESS!”
— Ambassador Londo Mollari, Babylon-5
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This whole thing is awful. I want to just wrap his wife up in my arms and bring her and the kids to my home and let her grieve..😢. I am not making any excuses for Josh by my next comment, however I do feel for the child he was…. Repressed, acting out but not really seen or heard. Not given adequate counseling or help, and being blamed as a teenager for two men he respected (one being his father) for campaigns being lost? How sick is that? This guy needs to go away for in depth therapy and counseling. And his wife needs a place to hide and recover and restart a life with her children.
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This is just one story of what porn use and sex addiction can do.
It’s rampant.
Recovery and reconciliation takes more than admitting to your sin.
Trust has been broken.
Lives have been shattered!
Genuine repentance is the first step in repairing a broken marriage.
Godly Change
is the outcome of Godly sorrow and Godly repentance.
Worldly sorrow is knowing I got caught.
I better be more careful next time.
Sin equals death. Spiritual death.
Sin in a marriage is deadly.
This young man needs
Help
In to the light
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“…being blamed as a teenager for two men he respected (one being his father) for campaigns being lost? How sick is that?”
_________________________________________
Not exactly father of the year stuff, you blame your adolescent kid for your loss in a political campaign. It’s vicious, evil, sadistic, disgusting. It’s the sort of thing a narcissistic monster with no conscience does. The kid was seriously abused from early on, the blame shifting regarding the failed political campaign is proof, that itself would be enough standing alone, for a kid to bear that blame from someone they should be able to trust. Josh Duggar is a victim, and now he’s moving on to create more victims as he becomes the abuser. It’s a tragic cycle.
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What about defrauding? And where it came from.who defrauded who here?
What about Anna’s lack of a college education? And where it came from.
What about the Purity culture? And where it came from.
What about letting God limit your family size? And where it came from.
I am not making excuses for Josh at all, but I see him as a victim in this culture too.i hope the hell that has come out of the IBLP/ATI will bring it and Bill Gothard down. And I pray that those who are still in IBLP/ATI will at long last have their eyes opened to the hell on earth they are creating for themselves and their children.
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My heart breaks for Anna and the children. Josh will have to answer for his own bad behavior. I can’t help but remember the verse that says “Pride cometh before the fall”. If Jim Bob and Michelle had not set their family up as an example to the world on television (for profit), and set their kids up to “perform” for the camera, maybe their children would have been able to develop in a more normal way. Josh never had a chance after being denied appropriate counseling as a teen and scapegoated in front of his entire church. He is probably so messed up that it will take years of therapy to undo all of the unhealthy messages he has received about sex from his parents, Gothard and his fundy church.
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Falling away like flies… What is going on? Deceiving spirits… Jesus come…
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They put the statement back up on the Duggar site.
Last I checked (a few hours ago), it was at the top of their main news page.
I think this is the new location:
_A Statement From Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar and Josh Duggar_
Julie Anne, I sent you screen shots of the older statement from the first URL. I took screen shots of it earlier today (Aug 20). I cc’d you on that e-mail, and you are welcome to use those shots if you like (or if not, that’s fine too).
I took my screen shots from a desk top computer, so it’s all in one big chunk visually.
The version of the statement I sent you is the one where Josh mentions doing things when he was 14/15 years old, and how Satan built a fortress in his heart.
Anyway. Other sources are saying that the hackers dumped a second big batch of data a couple of hours ago.
Another site says that Josh Duggar apparently had a Facebook account where he friended strippers.
This is from The Daily Caller site:
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Time for Jim Bob & Michelle Duggar to stop coming to Josh’s rescue by summing their lawyers to reword Josh’s admissions.
And Anna, bombarded by Gothard principals and expected to tow the twisted teachings, is brainwashed and silenced all in the name of “suffering for Christ”.
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How many hours or days before Anna gives (is forced to give) a statement that she forgives Josh and is finding strength to keep her (dysfunctional) family together?
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I am sitting here grieved over the Duggar scandal all over the internet and praying for my many grandchildren being raised in the same belief as the Duggars. In fact, my daughter’s family are friends of Jim and Michelle and many others in the circle but only see them once in a while as they live in another state.
I’ve been sad over this since Josh’s first scandal but now I am angry as I feel like my grandkids could be very disillusioned over what Christianity really is. They are very loving parents and not abusive with spankings or anything like that but they are all very sheltered and I just get concerned over how they will deal with the real world someday. I’m not against having that many children but I worry about her health (what if something happened to her physically? and their finances with so many children to care for.) They feel it would be a slap in God’s face to use birth control but yet live in a very small, crowded house and struggle in many ways.
I am a lover of my Lord Jesus but have not felt totally comfortable with their lifestyle now for the past 7 years but I kept telling myself it was wholesome and Godly and maybe I’m just too worried about nothing.
Then Bill Gothard fell and they defended him too saying all people sin and he confessed and it was all good…Argh…something tells me that there will be more exposure of other’s sins and I need to be ready with wisdom as I love them all so much and try to keep them happy with my mouth shut but now I want to gush and tell them to get out of it.
—
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Thank you, Daisy!
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This blogger, who is a lawyer, came out of fundamentalism. He communicates the problems with the Duggars belief system with wisdom, experience and clarity.
For example: He talks about Josh Duggar’s wants on Ashley Madison and doesn’t pull punches about Duggars upbringing.
“He’s looking for a “jeans and t-shirt” kind of girl. He’s looking for a girl with an “aggressive, take charge nature.”
In Gothardspeak, he might as well have said he was looking for brazen testicle-eating whore from the pit of hell.”
He looks at the despairing lives of girls and women and how trapped Anna Duggar is.
“A young girl, severely sheltered, forbidden to attend college, and having no future but to marry and make as many babies as she can, is told she has a man to marry. He seems contrite about a sexual mistake in his past. She may not have been informed of the details, and in any event, she is unlikely to have had the knowledge necessary to evaluate whether he was a good risk. Gothard, after all, considers secular psychology to be of the devil.
With no chance to get to talk with him alone, let alone exchange touches, she has no way of getting to know him in any real way. She certainly cannot gauge whether he is psychosexually healthy.
Before a year is out, they are deep into babyhood, and she cannot express negative emotions. (Another Gothard no-no.) Somehow, the two of them need to connect to each other, but he has baggage, and looks outside the marriage.
This is a living nightmare for her, and the system – and the grownups who should have known better are absolutely at fault. She was sacrificed to satiate the horniness of a troubled young man.”
http://fiddlrts.blogspot.ca/2015/08/josh-duggar-ashley-madison-and-covenant.html
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One recalls a poem:
Philip Larkin – This Be The Verse
They [removed expletive] you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were [removed explitive] up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.
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Please pray for the survivors struggling to reclaim what is left of our lives post ATI cult. Each Duggar event is a trigger that cycles the anger, shame, guilt of the parents and students. We are grieving the loss of family, faith and the Godly families we worked tirelessly to produce. The lies we bought into destroyed our families and robbed us of precious relationships and joys!! We separated from our extended families to protect out children. Many grandparents died never connecting to our kids because we were taught “generational sins” pass down.
This latest scandal is all too common in our families’ dysfunction of understanding a healthy sex life is Gods gift not to be shunned. That poor wife is like our daughters who were raised to believe in the white knight sent by God, after years of protection, chastity vows and rings, and fairy tale lives promised in all approved reading material ( from Vision Forum and Doup Phillips/ATI approved !!!)
I am just sick again to have followed my husband into this snake put if lies with our children. Gods grace is so precious to me.
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This makes me so sad. It happened in our family, too. We isolated from extended family who were “of the world” only to find out we were in our own whacked world. I’m angry about what we were sold and what we bought thinking we were doing the right thing for our families.
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Thank you, BD, that is an excellent article.
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I have started and deleted 4 replies to Anonymous. Yesterday I was hyped up on adrenaline about the new Josh Duggar revelations. Today I’m exhausted. This is like ripping a scab off of a wound that is trying to heal.
I’m so sorry Anonymous. I understand.
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@JulieAnne:
No, only Dianetic Auditing with Elron Hubbard E-Meter works, right?
(At least according to Scientology…)
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And yet another developing angle in this whole train wreck:
MSNBC Headline:
THE BLACKMAIL OF ASHLEY MADISON USERS HAS ALREADY BEGUN
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/the-blackmail-of-ashley-madison-users-has-already-begun/ar-BBlXLTH
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@Nimsy:
I’ve concluded THAT is the real meaning of “Generational Curses” in the Bible.
Not that God keeps punishing the descendants generation after generation after generation but that the same screw-ups get passed on as each generation bears & raises the next. “Generational Curse” is just a Bronze Age poetic way of saying that.
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“…and she cannot express negative emotions. (Another Gothard no-no.)”
__________________________________________________________
I stay away from Gothard materials, so I can’t comment on whether or not it’s true, but if so, I have two thoughts on that:
1). If this is a maxim of Gothard’s, it makes perfect sense, because it enables a sexual abuser to abuse with near impunity because those young, attractive, long-skirt-wearing ladies who are being abused would have no outlet or means to speak out against the great evil being done to them, they’d be forced to paste on smiles and express no negative emotions.
2). Again, assuming this is a maxim of Gothard’s, it would almost seem as if Mr. Gothard has not read the Bible, which expresses remarkably negative emotions throughout, e.g., Ecclesiastes, Job, Jesus’ strongly-expressed feelings towards religious leaders of His day as well as towards His closest friends and allies, the Pauline epistles, the writings of James, John, the Psalmist, etc., etc., etc. A veritable explosion of negative emotions.
Negative emotions are not categorically condemned in the Bible, the anguish and anger and struggles of the human condition are presented either as normal and healthy or neutral things that could either be used rightly or wrongly. One thing that is universally condemned, however, is phraisaism and phony piety or superficial niceness. We’re specifically told to have our eyes out for the phonies and predators masquerading as angels of light among us. It would seem as if Gothardism has it absolutely, utterly, completely 180 degrees wrong.
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Anonymous, I am so sorry for what you are enduring from this.
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“I stay away from Gothard materials, so I can’t comment on whether or not it’s true, but if so, I have two thoughts on that:”
We didn’t use Gothard materials either, but we were taught that if our child had a bad attitude it was disobedience. Disobedience needed to be corrected. The end result is children who are afraid of punishment if they aren’t “happy.”
This article explains it very well:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/08/an-open-letter-to-duggar-defenders.html
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BTDT
Wow, polar opposite of our house. If the kids are angry, they get to be angry, at us or each other, if I’m angry, I get to be angry, same goes for my wife and everyone in the gang, including the two year old. The one thing we hate is a lie. Flat out hate them. Would rather have a literal physical fight with all 11 of us (huge family, by the way) than a whitewashed lie. Our house is loud and obnoxious, but we hear what the others are thinking and we have a chance to correct it if they’re being an idiot or correct ourselves if they’re pointing out how we’re being idiots. Goes the same for all of us. Cannot tell you how many times my kids have said “Dad, you’re wrong.” Often not that nice, either, or in those sort of words, sometimes yelled. But guess what? I’ve learned more from them about what a fool I can be and the ways in which I need to change than anyone in the world other than my wife.
The truth is not an enemy.
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BTDT
Wow, polar opposite of our house. If the kids are angry, they get to be angry, at us or each other, if I’m angry, I get to be angry, same goes for my wife and everyone in the gang, including the two year old. The one thing we hate is a lie. Flat out hate them. Would rather have a literal physical fight with all 11 of us (huge family, by the way) than a whitewashed lie. Our house is loud and obnoxious, but we hear what the others are thinking and we have a chance to correct it if they’re being an idiot or correct ourselves if they’re pointing out how we’re being idiots. Goes the same for all of us. Cannot tell you how many times my kids have said “Dad, you’re wrong.” Often not that nice, either, or in those sort of words, sometimes yelled. But guess what? I’ve learned more from them about what a fool I can be and the ways in which I need to change than anyone in the world other than my wife.
The truth is not an enemy. But some people would rather have a comforting lie. Well I guess the fruits of that philosophy are becoming available for all to see: Gothard, Phillips, Duggar.
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My money is on a lawyer’s getting involved. The Duggars likely posted in liberty then either their lawyer (or likely their TV show’s attorney, if they’re still broadcasting a show) contacted them and told them what to remove. Either way – or for whatever reason – it’s a pity they thought it wise to remove anything when it appears there was “reality” for reals going on – until the edited version.
Way to go keeping on top of this with the screen shots. Thanks for posting.
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http://www.covenanteyes.com/2015/02/11/raising-kids-sexualized-culture-interview-duggars/
This is a Feb. 2015 interview the Duggars did with Covenant Eyes.
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To those who sit under a false prophet.
Either in a pew
In your Livingroom 📺
With an abuser.
Wake up!
I was living with the enemy. Went to church with the enemy. Slept with the enemy.
Listened to a church with the enemy reading Gods word from the pulpit.
I was commanded to submit to my abuser by a volunteer counselor.
To have a gentle and quiet spirit.
To Shut up. Submit to your leaders.
To have sex with my abuser.
Even if he was seeing many prostitutes.
This is from the pit of hell!
I stood up after my abuser filed legal separation papers. Tossed them across a table in a church building full of Pharisees. No wittiness. Just me and God.
I have suffered from PTSD.
The effects of Trauma are still present.
Trusting God!
He is my husband now.
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In this issue (NOT in the sister molesting) I actually feel for both Josh and his wife.
Josh got married at 20 (his wife was about the same age) in what was basically an arranged marriage. Neither of them have real work training, both grew up in a sheltered enviroment that probably did not expose him to many career/ job possibilities. Unlike his wife, it is the expectation that he brings home the money.
His parents and their connections got him a job defending his parents’ values. With the anywhere-you-go-you-should-take-a-sibling policy he probably never learned the independence to even do job hunting on his own.
Like his culture wants, he soon has four little children. That is stressful. I am sure he and Anna never actually chose how many kids they want.
When you are married, the father of four, and have a job defending “family values” is a terrible time to start to look for who you are and what you like in others, but he had no real chance before that. What he wants in an affair partner is actually fairly normal – he likes her to wear jeans, to be muscular/fit (that one was not repeated in the Autodidact article, but it was one of his desires), to sometimes take charge – but that is exactly what his culture told him is terrible in a woman.
.Even when he apparently tried to choose to confess, his culture seemingly chose to change his words, to delete part of the confession. He is still not free to make choices.
I feel a lot for his wife, who is deeply into that culture and who sure feel betrayed now. But I also feel that I do not want to criticize Josh too hard here – he is an adulterer, but I think he is also the product of a broken culture trying to find himself. In order to do that, he needs to meet some people who are not from his culture.
In an ideal world, he would have met his jeans-wearing girl who cuddles (one of the things in the profile) and sometimes take charge before someone else chose him a marriage partner.
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Sorry, jeans wearing woman, not girl.
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Well, I guess there’s another connection between my former cult and the Duggars. Since we left our cult anyone who has internet access is required to install Covenant Eyes so their internet usage can be monitored. It used to be that only husbands with businesses were allowed to have internet access, so we’re talking adults being treated like minors.
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I LOVE this! I can so relate to it. Not only did I just divorce my abuser, I divorced the church he still attends (in which I served, not he, for eight+ years faithfully every Sunday and Wednesday, inc bulletins, all Bible studies, all kinds of stuff – serving alongside the brethren, etc, but…. the wolf gets to stay and it’s the sheep who flees), and now, I find myself working in a Christian school and I keep bumping into what appears to me to be “the clean outer cup” with little concern for the reality of what’s inside.
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My last comment was meant as a reply to “Herjourney”‘s statement.
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Even today, people on my FB and defending the Duggar parents and saying that the parents are not responsible for the son’s choices. We should not judge them because they are just doing the best they know how.
I think perhaps these are the voices of people who are really saying, “Don’t judge *us* for our choices. We are just doing the best we know how.”
But they are continuing to insist that IBLP/ATI is a good choice, it sounds like, and not to blame for Josh’s choices. Just like they are not to blame for their own adult children who have “rebelled” and walked away from the faith.
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I absolutely believe that the ATI teaching materials teach boys how to sexually groom – or that if they do, it is the girls’ fault. I would hold the parents partly responsible in the same way I hold myself responsible for being a part of the cult church. But it’s also obvious that Josh knew what he was doing was wrong – -after all, his job was based on promoting moral purity.
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A Georgia Mom’s Open Letter Regarding Anna Duggar
“JESSICA KIRKLAND’S FULL ‘BREATHE FIRE’ POST
I know everybody is laughing about this Josh Duggar story. Oh, a DUGGAR on Ashley Madison, it’s so rich! I wish more people would talk about Anna. I normally keep things light on Facebook, but let’s talk about Anna. Let me tell you: Anna Duggar is in the worst position she could possibly be in right now. Anna Duggar was crippled by her parents by receiving no education, having no work experience (or life experience, for that matter) and then was shackled to this loser because his family was famous in their religious circle. Anna Duggar was taught that her sole purpose in life, the most meaningful thing she could do, was to be chaste and proper, a devout wife, and a mother. Anna Duggar did that! Anna Duggar followed the rules that were imposed on her from the get-go and this is what she got in reward- a husband who she found out, in the span of six months, not only molested his own sisters, but was unfaithful to her in the most humiliating way possible. While she was fulfilling her “duty” of providing him with four children and raising them. She lived up to the standard that men set for her of being chaste and Godly and in return, the man who demanded this of her sought women who were the opposite. “Be this,” they told her. She was. It wasn’t enough.
What is Anna Duggar supposed to do? She can’t divorce because the religious environment she was brought up would blame her and ostracize her for it. Even if she would risk that, she has no education and no work experience to fall back on, so how does she support her kids? From where could she summon the ability to turn her back on everything she ever held to be sacred and safe? Her beliefs, the very thing she would turn to for comfort in this kind of crisis, are the VERY REASON she is in this predicament in the first place. How can she reconcile this? Her parents have utterly, utterly failed her. Think of this: somewhere, Anna Duggar is sitting in prayer, praying not for the strength to get out and stand on her own, but for the strength to stand by this man she is unfortunately married to. To lower herself so that he may rise up on her back.
As a mother of daughters, this makes me ill. Parents, WE MUST DO BETTER BY OUR DAUGHTERS. Boys, men, are born with power. Girls have to command it for themselves. They aren’t given it. They assume it and take it. But you have to teach them to do it, that they can do it. We HAVE to teach our daughters that they are not beholden to men like this. That they don’t have to marry a man their father deems ‘acceptable’ and then stay married to that man long, long after he proved himself UNACCEPTABLE. Educate them. Empower them. Give them the tools they need to survive, on their own if they must. Josh Duggar should be cowering in fear of Anna Duggar right now. Cowering. He isn’t, but he should be. He should be quaking in fear that the house might fall down around them if he’s in the same room as she. Please, instill your daughters with the resolve to make a man cower if he must. To say “I don’t deserve this, and my children don’t deserve this.” I wish someone had ever, just once, told Anna she was capable of this. That she knew she is. As for my girls, I’ll raise them to think they breathe fire.”
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Remember, “ATI teaching materials” were written by a successful sexual predator.
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