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Josh Duggar reportedly had accounts at Ashley Madison for the intention of connecting with people who want to have extramarital affairs.
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The Josh Duggar story is not over. Josh Duggar, of 19 Kids and Counting fame, is buzzing all over social media with a new sex scandal. Because of lack of time, I’ll let DailyMail.com summarize the story:
The Ashley Madison hack may have claimed its first high-profile victim.
Gawker is reporting that Josh Duggar allegedly had an account with the site created to help married individuals find people with whom they could have affairs.
The account said that Duggar was allegedly looking for ‘conventional sex, experimenting with sex toys, one-night stands, sharing fantasies, sex talk,’ and more.
One of the accounts was closed around the same time it was first reported Josh had molested four of his siblings as a teenager.
The revelation came hours after users of the infidelity site were sent scrambling to control the damage – and save their marriages – after hackers exposed them and dumped 9.7 gigabytes of personal data about the controversial seduction forum used by 37 million worldwide. (Source)
The DailyMail.com seems to have the most information I have found, so please check out the details here.
I have some thoughts:
- When we heard the Duggar parents defend Josh Duggar’s sexual abuse against 4 of his younger sisters and another young girl from outside the family, we were told that he was not a Christian at the time. It was after this sex abuse scandal against minors, that he became a Christian. If this story is true, I wonder what is going to be said now? He was backsliding?
- There seems to be a pattern of getting caught first, and then admission.
- It’s easy to apologize after you’ve been caught and then talk about God’s grace and shame those who question about consequences.
- How much more can his wife, Anna, take? I feel very bad for her and their children.
- The apple did not fall far from the tree. Bill Gothard, the mentor of the Duggar family, taught strict purity and modesty teachings, and he sexually groomed young ladies. Josh Duggar stood on a morality platform and has fallen morally.
- I believe the modesty and purity culture is harmful, and the accompanying guilt/shame can lead to immoral behavior, the very thing this culture is trying to prevent.
- The Duggars need to be done with any social media or public appearances.
- It’s time for the Duggars to learn how to work like real people, instead of parading their family in front of cameras. They also need to quit asking for donations. It’s time to be responsible and quietly care for their children.
- I hope to never see another 19 Kids and Counting show on tv in my life, including reruns.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
I think we’ll see a lot of Christians exposed.
This site claims to have a search for emails from the Ashley Madison hacked database. I tested a dozen emails including all of mine. Only one was a hit…the person I expected, who is a Christian.
http://www.trustify.info/check
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Thank you, Anonymous2. I cringe to think of how many more will be exposed. Very sad!
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As controversial as this may sound, I have a somewhat heavy heart for Josh. He obviously has a problem, and that problem is destroying his family and reputation. Certainly, his deeds need to be exposed, and he should be held accountable. But as long as his heart remains hard to genuine repentance, these scandals will only continue to surface, and he will slide further into darkness. The further he falls, the more painful the day of his reckoning will be. I, of course, have deeper empathy for his victims. But having watched my own father walk this path, I can’t remain entirely disinterested toward Josh. I hope, for his and his victims’ sakes, that he will choose to get help. Otherwise, we will see him entirely swallowed, shamed and broken by his depravity.
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April, I think it’s safe to say that he is already entirely swallowed, shamed, and broken.
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This whole Bill Gothard system showing everyone “A new way of life” has brought so much dysfunction into so many families. May God have mercy on his soul. And grace to his victims
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I’m honestly wondering who is going to come out on this list. What troubles me is the large amount of military on it. With UCMJ being what is it….many people’s careers are over. But I wonder if we are also going to find Sovereign Grace pastors, Acts 29 pastors, and other in the Neo-Cal movement on that list.
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I’m always a bit wary of the Daily Mail as a source, but whether or not they’re accurately reporting this… I agree with everything you said at the end. The Duggars need to step back and spend a lot of time in self-reflection (and get professional help)
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Oh really? Have you seen errors? I’ve actually been pretty impressed with Daily Mail when cross-checking sources. They were superb when they covered my lawsuit when it was going viral.
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Sigh.
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It’s sad that there’s no dearth of material on this subject. Sigh. Poor Anna and those kids. I’ve said many times that this belief system would produce exactly what they claim to hate. Though I like the validation, I’m still sad to see it. Over and over and over again.
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I feel so sorry for Anna. What Josh did this time was no mistake. It’s not like he had a moment of weakness with an office coworker. He deliberately sought to have an affair.
What is Anna supposed to do? In that system she has few choices.
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“The revelation came hours after users of the infidelity site were sent scrambling to control the damage – and save their marriages – after hackers exposed them and dumped 9.7 gigabytes of personal data about the controversial seduction forum used by 37 million worldwide.”
Yeah, that’s why you sign up to cheat in the first place, because marriage is a high priority…
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I really feel for his wife and children. I hope someone in this “movement” stands up and says this is enough. It wont happen but I wish it would.
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So this fiasco will morph into yet another “persecution” narrative in conservative Christian circles. Of course that will follow another round of cheesy lines about forgiveness, redemption, “we all sin”, etc.
I will be staying off Facebook for awhile now.
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The simple explanation if this is true is that Josh has sinned. There but for the grace of God go I!
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Unbelievable, well almost. Honestly I never bought into the concept of immediate repentance and restoration after being caught red handed or exposed. Yes we are all sinners, NO we are not all fake for the sake of the take. In the case of the Duggar family, their family is the longest running scam I have ever seen TAKE CHRISTIANS in a very long time. They were a well oiled and orchestrated PR stunt for the extreme end of fundamentalism and way too many Christian fell for it as the Duggars were made wealthy promoting some very horrible and dangerous concepts. They promoted: quiver full , the Perls & EZZOS weird and harsh discipline, the home school only option “movement” , the purity movement, the courting vs dating concept, the idea that you are under your parents authority forever till married, and the Gothard cult. They were in bed big time (bad way to language it LOL ) with Vision Forum and the pervert that ran it. They collected millions while encouraging young couples without similar financial resources to OVERBREED. Frankly the Duggars are everything I find disgusting about extreme fundamentalism. They were also well paid fakes, they went to great effort to hide Josh’s sin while claiming they were just helping him be held accountable. Waiting for the statute of limitations to expire, and filing a lawsuit to stop an investigation by child protective services is NOT repentance or helping someone find repentance. The Duggars are like drug cartels, motivated by greed. Greed for money and greed for their agenda. Getting and keeping their show on the air became their true GOD. I have more respect for the Kardashians and even Bruce Jenner. At least they are real.
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I sincerely wonder where Josh learned his deviant behavior patterns. Most abusers were themselves abused. What has Jim Bob done to raise a son who is so truly defective?
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Reblogged this on Speakingtruthinlove's Blog.
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Cindy K: “I’ve said many times that this belief system would produce exactly what they claim to hate.” Exactly right, and it cannot be overemphasized; the dysfunction inheres in the belief system itself.
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I am saddened about all this news of infidelity and sexual predatory deviance in the leaders some of the major players in U.S. Christendom. I am relieved it is coming to light. I hope if needed, more is exposed! The Rock Star Status Celebrity Pastors, Gothard and Phillips type Christian Leaders have been given a platform surrounded by yes-men with no accountability. Social Media, the dreaded (lol) Bloggers and the “secular” press are doing what the “Church” should have done long ago- expose the charlatans and clean house.
These leaders have told us how we were to live, and uphold the “standard of holiness” . We cowered in fear, only to find out that as in most cases of spiritual abuse, those lording over us were living in the very lifestyle they most loudly denounced.
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In a sense, Josh Duggar is a victim of this extreme fundie paradigm as well. Josh was treated to his parents’ harsh draconian parenting methodology. He was strictly home-schooled and given no real marketable skills. He was given a strong sense of privilege as a white male.
Josh is the product of his environment.
The Duggars have whored their family for the past decade and neither parent has any demonstrable skills they can use to actually provide for their family. Note the irony that Jim Bob has been telling us not to take out a mortgage or car loan for the ideal of living debt free when the man has no means to provide for his family besides whoring his family on TV.
So they beg.
Very sad way to shame the Gospel.
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“I sincerely wonder where Josh learned his deviant behavior patterns. Most abusers were themselves abused. What has Jim Bob done to raise a son who is so truly defective?”
This has been discussed over at the Cry for Justice blog. While it is true that a lot of abusers were once victims themselves, it’s not universally true. Some men just seem to have more trouble than others with self control in that area of their lives. As an aside, I wonder if Anna or anyone else has secretly investigated all of Josh’s computers, phones, etc., and I don’t just mean about the Ashley Madison thing.
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Did the little boy that was Josh ever have a chance?
The men his father gets his ideas from are, Michael Pearl, a man that gets a thrill out of telling people to physically terrorize their babies, Doug Phillips, a chronic misogynist, and Bill Gothard, another sadistic serial pervert. Jim Bob took Josh to talk to a police officer that is in prison for child porn. All the people that turns Jim Bob on are pure abusive perversion.
I feel sorry for the baby that was Josh Duggar and the little boy that was Josh Duggar.
Josh’s face conveys misery, a good mother slows down and looks in her child’s eyes, reads them, and ask what is wrong? Michelle is obviously to self centric or just does not care.
If Jim Bob or Michelle were decent people, they would feel guilty and ashamed of what they did to their child.
I also think it is unfair that nineteen children get lumped in with their selfish pervert parents when people say “The Duggars”. We should say Jim Bob, and or Michelle, these kids have no choice but to fake smile and repeat what their parents tell them to. These children are helpless trapped prisoners that believe they are hellbound if they don’t do perfectly what pleasures parents.
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Anonymous, your whole comment was so good. And your last sentence is the same pattern I’ve seen over and over again by abusive pastors. Last week we were talking about projection in my psychology class and this is a classic case of it.
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That’s a very good point. I feel very sad for the kids. If any one of the kids said they wanted to stop doing the show, would they have? I can’t imagine my childhood paraded before the world like this. They absolutely are victims.
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opinemine – I’ve been wondering what Jim Bob and Michelle will do to maintain their level of living now that the show has been cancelled. And, I’m sure Josh was handed the job at Family Research Council. What skills does he have outside of being a reality TV star? How will he provide for his family?
Does Gothard et al. recognize adultery as a valid reason to divorce? Does signing up on Ashley Madison give Anna enough leverage to file for divorce?
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http://reformedpub.com/josh-duggar-ashley-madison-and-eye-gouging-socketery/
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When Honey Boo Boo’s mother was found to be dating a child molester, TLC cancelled the show. When Jared Fogle was found to have watched child porn, Subway cuts ties quickly. But when it is revealed that Josh Duggar has sexually abused his sisters, TLC takes their sweet time figuring out what to do. And, Fox News interviews the Duggars. The only reason why they waited so long to drop the show is because apparently the Duggars have friends in high places. And, they haven’t even really fully cut ties because of the upcoming show about the Duggar girls’ counseling.
Subway was smart, TLC did it right once. This time they failed.
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From Dustin’s link:
I don’t know if this sounds mean, but at this point I’m not so certain that his marriage should be saved. Or, for that matter, whether Josh and Anna had a real marriage to begin with. It might be similar to Karen Hinkley’s case, where the law agreed that the whole thing had been a fraud from the beginning, and therefore a candidate for annulment.
Even if not, I would be much more worried about Anna remaining in that marriage than leaving it. She might be happier and better off just taking the kids and leaving Josh.
Assuming, that is, that she has somewhere to go. In that culture, would even her own family take her back if she divorced him?
God help them all.
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@Anonymous2:
Don’t know if Julie Anne will let this through, but JMJ over at Christian Monist once recalled an older relative (uncle?) of his as often saying this:
“Bait a trap with pussy and you’ll catch a Preacher every time.”
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I predicted above:
And as of on cue, Dustin Germain posts a link to his blog post that does exactly what I predicted. Josh’s “unregenerate critics” and “professing Christians cackling with glee” are the villain and Josh the victim.
Justin, if you have something to say, argue your case here instead of plugging your blog. Respond to the specifics of criticism directed at the fundamentalist culture of which Josh is a product. As many commenters have alluded to, perhaps Josh is the victim of the culture he grew up in, not of his “unregenerate critics”? Address the points raised by his critics, but instead you are changing the topic.
(Julie Anne, I hope I am not stepping out of bounds).
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@dustin germain
OK. I decided to bite. I’m not impressed.
“His unregenerate critics will be twisted up in even more perverse pleasure at seeing a confessed Christian act the hypocrite and show himself plunged down deep into a cesspool of sexual sin.”
So, we are unregenerate, which means we are “not renewed in heart and mind or reborn in spirit; unrepentant.”
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unregenerate
That’s quite an accusation to make towards people you don’t even know. I’m not the one with an AM account.
“There will be also be professing Christians cackling with glee at this newest revelation. This news will be deliciously sweet.”
No glee here. And I don’t find it “deliciously sweet” but sad and disgusting.
“Finally there will be the family of Christ who defended him while acknowledging his sin. They will be heartbroken. They stood up for him as a Christian who sinned greatly in his youth but who had been restored in mercy and grace, and now they will be stung and embarrassed at having done so, often passionately in the face of skepticism and doubt. ”
Please stop minimizing what Josh did by calling it sin. He should have been charged as a juvenile sex offender. Not all sins can be categorized as crimes.
No, this is not another attack on Christian values, unless Christians value child molestation, incest, and adultery. Sometimes I wonder.
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Someone just shared this on TWW.
http://www.duggarfamily.com/michelles-blog?ID=651536de-8b7d-4525-afb0-3f525bc390e1
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For the record,
I am not the type of Christian that Dustin Germain is representing with his words.
I am not the least bit happy that two rather naive people took the teachings of various people that have been shown to be dangerous (namely the Ezzos, the Pearls, Gothard, to name the top three,) and turned it into a toxic family dynamic that was reinforced by the TLC reality show franchise. Some people watched to see the Duggar choo-choo chugger trainwreck while others have seen this as the wholesome alternative to Shnookie and the Housewives of wherever.
I have been voicing my concerns for almost ten years now because I know in my bones that there is no balance in this teaching.
I have spent the past almost decade sensing a disturbance in the Force.
These people are sick and they think we all should be leading similar lives.
Seriously the slack jawed Jim Bob hillbilly look got passed down to Josh and then some. I wonder if the rest of them have any hope for a normal life.
Trying.
Nope, can’t imagine they do.
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Wow, BTDT!
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I’ve read worse apologies than that. At least he didn’t do the politician’s dance. And while he is still perhaps stuck on “I” and “me”, he didn’t give us the tired “this is the worst thing that ever happened to ME” line or produce a litany of explanations and justifications. He even mentioned the victims as more than an aside–unusual for a celeb Christian. No throwing his spouse under the bus, either, like Tulian, for I’m sure Josh could’ve found something, if not infidelity, that his young wife has done wrong to him to “justify” his ugly behavior. We all can find something our loved ones have done to hurt us truly–yet nothing justifies our sin in response.
So now maybe that (hopefully) it’s all out, Josh can get some perspective, hopefully save his marriage, see what’s been poisoning him all these years, and find true faith and a real relationship with Jesus. Hopefully his wife and children are able to heal, at least as well as they can.
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We used to get spammed by that Ashley Madison site all the time. At least once a day if not more. Both myself and the Spousal Unit were literally nauseated in our repulsion toward them. Extremely grievous to the new nature. I prayed every single time one of those spams came it, “Lord, do something about them PLEASE!!!!!”
Little did I think Christians — or, to borrow Dustin’s term, “professing Christians” — would ever use such a “service.”
Josh Duggar allegedly had an account with the site created to help married individuals find people with whom they could have affairs.
“To help individuals find people with whom they could have affairs”? !!!! Does anyone else see what is wrong with that sentence?!!!!
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That is a well thought of statement from Josh. I hope he finds real redemption through honest self reflection. I wish him well.
Now the response I predict:
Josh apologized! He is repenting! Can we move on? Why all the malice and condemnation? What more do you want from him? Leave him alone!* Can we please get back to raining down condemnation and judgement the gays, Muslims, Democrats and other liberal variations?
*somebody, please make the Josh version of this legendary video.
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BTDT, the Duggarfamily page seems to have been removed. I’m getting an error message that it doesn’t exist.
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@Bit
It just worked for me. Maybe just a temporary glitch?
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I just noticed that, Barnabisintraining. I’m glad I had it still open on my phone. I have taken screenshots and will post them.
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I know dustin germain won’t like this, but I do believe the Patriarchal, Quiverfull movement is being exposed for the snake oil that it is. Kids raised this way aren’t supposed to have these problems. (And Jim Bob said other families they knew had worse things going on!) This is supposed to be God’s only way to raise a family that will not be polluted by “the world.” Phooey!
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Julie Anne, I can’t even read that Daily Mail article to the end. I am so upset at them. I mean these Madison people. Well, not even them but the people who signed up with them. Ugh. How horrible.
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@BTDT:
Don’t you know, BTDT, that all those are Patriarch Privileges of Rank?
From every Herd Bull to pagan Roman Paterfamilias, Herd Bull/Alpha Male has unlimited rights (including sexual) over his animate property/inferiors. Just Because He Can and He’s Bigger than All the Others.
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@JulieAnne:
Didn’t some Rabbi from Nazareth say “What you have kept secret shall be shouted from the rooftops”?
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“…shouted from the rooftops”
_____________________________
I’ve been told by a more knowledgeable source than I that people living in cities at that time in that part of the world would lounge on their rooftops when the conditions permitted. When some juicy news item occurred, it would literally be shouted from the rooftops and would go from house to house to the outermost parts of the city and of course make it down into the dwellings below. Thus in minutes virtually everyone could get the news of the day. They had a more efficient means of social media than we have today with all our electronics.
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I was at work the entire day and just got off. i have no intention of plugging then bailing, but am open to discussion.
for starters, itw as said “So, we are unregenerate, which means we are “not renewed in heart and mind or reborn in spirit; unrepentant.”
I never accused anyone on this blog or in the combox of being in the first category. If that’s how you identify yourself, that’s one thing, but it was never said from me.
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“Josh is redeemable. He is loved. Though his world crumbles, his life, marriage, and family may be still be kept from destruction by the mercies of Christ.
I don’t know if this sounds mean, but at this point I’m not so certain that his marriage should be saved. Or, for that matter, whether Josh and Anna had a real marriage to begin with. It might be similar to Karen Hinkley’s case, where the law agreed that the whole thing had been a fraud from the beginning, and therefore a candidate for annulment.
Even if not, I would be much more worried about Anna remaining in that marriage than leaving it. She might be happier and better off just taking the kids and leaving Josh.
Assuming, that is, that she has somewhere to go. In that culture, would even her own family take her back if she divorced him?
God help them all.”
It’s not that this comment is “mean” it’s that it’s not reflective of a biblical worldview. If Anna left him, would I support her? Yes I would. I would hope she would, as God hates divorce, but I would not lay sin at her doorstep for that. At the same time what would be better, for them to separate and tear the family apart, or for them to reconcile and figure out how to make this work? the latter every time. “being happier” and “better off” is not the standards by which we are to judge whether people ought to bail on the marriage.
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Dustin, what do you say about this regarding someone being a believer and in sexual immorality? https://twitter.com/XianJaneway/status/634470955344117760
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“And as of on cue, Dustin Germain posts a link to his blog post that does exactly what I predicted. Josh’s “unregenerate critics” and “professing Christians cackling with glee” are the villain and Josh the victim.”
I would hope you would be among his REgenerate critics, or perhaps a group I failed to name. I did not say you were part of this group, and I did not put you there.
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“I know dustin germain won’t like this, but I do believe the Patriarchal, Quiverfull movement is being exposed for the snake oil that it is. Kids raised this way aren’t supposed to have these problems. (And Jim Bob said other families they knew had worse things going on!) This is supposed to be God’s only way to raise a family that will not be polluted by “the world.” Phooey!”
I’m on the record that saying people like Gothards, Ezzo’s, Pearls are pretty much a bunch of psychopaths with barn-burningly bad theology.
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“Dustin, what do you say about this regarding someone being a believer and in sexual immorality? https://twitter.com/XianJaneway/status/634470955344117760”
it’s slightly complicated. anyone who is actively engaging in these sins while claiming to be brother or a sister needs to be rebuked and treated as an unbeliever. So yes, I completely agree with the imperative from that verse and how it ought to be played out.
The tricky part is knowing if that applies to Josh Duggar. He ought to be under church discipline [have grace with that word, accepting that i am operating from a particular ecclesiastical model] with the consideration of whether or not he ought to be kicked out of church. His actions indicate he is not regenerate, at the very least, which would present a different set of challenges and may or may not abrogate the usefulness of that verse.
I don’t think at this point anyone should go easy on him, or assume and trust the best of his actions.This is even in light of his new confession.
Ultimately I don’t know if this applies to him. If he is indeed repentant…maybe not. Unfortunately he has made it incredibly hard to trust him, and it will take not months, but years and decades to rebuilt that reputation and trust
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“It’s not that this comment is “mean” it’s that it’s not reflective of a biblical worldview.”
Whose interpretation? :o)
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“I’m on the record that saying people like Gothards, Ezzo’s, Pearls are pretty much a bunch of psychopaths with barn-burningly bad theology.”
Dustin, you are very confusing. in your article you said, “These are men and women who feel that some of the values that the Duggars and others of their theological stripe espouse are antiquated, dated, and dangerous. They’ll say things like “This is what happens when you home-school. This is what happens when you shelter your kids. This is what happens when you accept patriarchy. This is the fruit of the modesty and purity culture which is shaming, harmful and leads to immoral behavior like this.” ”
Right before that you say, “There will be also be professing Christians cackling with glee at this newest revelation. This news will be deliciously sweet.” It sounds like you are mocking those who point out Patriarchy’s role in this. Is that not what you intended to convey?
I have a very hard time figuring you out. Sometimes you are very supportive. I actually like you. But, that article sounded like a critique of how some of us might feel about this situation.
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““It’s not that this comment is “mean” it’s that it’s not reflective of a biblical worldview.”
Whose interpretation? :o)”
I think there is enough Biblical evidence to suggest that it should be everyone’s interpretation. If Anna can find it in her heart to forgive and work through this nightmare, and for them to reconcile, that would be the best thing for the marriage and a loving picture of how christ loves his church
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““I’m on the record that saying people like Gothards, Ezzo’s, Pearls are pretty much a bunch of psychopaths with barn-burningly bad theology.”
Dustin, you are very confusing. in your article you said, “These are men and women who feel that some of the values that the Duggars and others of their theological stripe espouse are antiquated, dated, and dangerous. They’ll say things like “This is what happens when you home-school. This is what happens when you shelter your kids. This is what happens when you accept patriarchy. This is the fruit of the modesty and purity culture which is shaming, harmful and leads to immoral behavior like this.” ”
Right before that you say, “There will be also be professing Christians cackling with glee at this newest revelation. This news will be deliciously sweet.” It sounds like you are mocking those who point out Patriarchy’s role in this. Is that not what you intended to convey?
I have a very hard time figuring you out. Sometimes you are very supportive. I actually like you. But, that article sounded like a critique of how some of us might feel about this situation.
”
I responded to you earlier about this a bit. Many people here are putting themselves in that first category and that wasn’t my doing.
In any case, I chose three categories because that was easiest and simplest. I think the third category would encompass being critical of the theology while being grieved. I probably could have done several more that people would have fallen into a bit better, but being that nuanced was beyond the scope and purpose of the post.
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“I responded to you earlier about this a bit. Many people here are putting themselves in that first category and that wasn’t my doing.”
I’m sorry I misunderstood you, Dustin. Please forgive me. And thank you for clarifying. This Duggar stuff hits too close to home.
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s’all good 🙂
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Fair enough, Dustin. I apologize for sitting here in front of the computer and secretly thinking “That little neocal twit” of you. Sometimes I jump to conclusions. You sound like a fine fellow with whom I’d like to have a beer.
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Haha “neocal twit”. I think Dustin would have a beer with you!
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I am having a very hard time with the comment that the modesty and purity “culture” is harmful. I am not a fan of overt control of everything in our kids lives that compels them to run in the other direction, but is there no middle ground here? Are we not called to modesty and purity, or have we as believers simply given up on the beauty of innocence, and the blessings that flow from it?
The contemporary culture that thrives on immodesty and impurity has not exactly yielded a wealth of favorable outcomes.
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The legalistic aspect of it is wrong. When we were in the culture, my boys were constantly looking to see if girls were dressed modestly. That was the first thing they noticed rather than the person beneath the clothes. This was taught from the pulpit. It’s one thing to dress appropriately yourself, it’s a whole other thing to look down on others because they do not have your standards. This culture, when it becomes legalistic, causes problems.
For the purity aspect, imagine being a girl who lost her virginity and then told she is like a used piece of gum. That denies God’s grace and forgiveness when there is true repentance. That denies that He remembers our sins no more. That aspect of the purity culture is damaging.
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