***
My friend, Pastor Jeff Crippen, who blogs about domestic violence at A Cry for Justice posted the following note on the A Cry for Justice Facebook page and I asked pretty please if I could share it with you. Yes, I really did say, “pretty please.” LOL
Sadly, at Spiritual Sounding Board, we do often discuss controlling and abusive pastors, so when I have the opportunity to show you a pastor who gets it and really cares about people and their souls, I like to share it with you.
Jeff is part of a network of people I work with dealing with abuse issues in the church and I’m grateful for the encouragement Pastor Jeff has been to me in my life as he has sometimes cared for my weary soul.
~ja
Why Don’t Young People go to Church?
by Jeff Crippen
***
Recently I was up in the woods cutting firewood and talked to a forester who happened by. Turns out he knew some people that I did, and as we talked I told him I was a pastor in town and that I had written a book and would give him a copy. He said that he attends a different church here and that he is perplexed because young people “just don’t go to church anymore.” He seemed like a sincere fellow, and his observation is accurate.
Why don’t young people go to church anymore?
Now certainly we know that some people, young or old, simply love their sin and hate (yep, hate) Christ. That’s why they don’t repent and believe in the gospel. That’s why they aren’t in church.
But there is another reason many young people aren’t in church and it is the very same reason that many of you do not attend a local church on the Lord’s day. I don’t really even have to state the reason, do I? Many people do not go to church because they have seen gross, ongoing, injustice and hypocrisy in the church they grew up in. Some of them saw it in their own families and homes. They saw the abuser in action at home in all his wickedness. And then they saw him leading a Bible study at church, regarded by the people there as an eminent saint. Eventually young people figure it out. The thing is a farce. They want no more of it.
Our Lord had some strong commands about raising children up in His name:
Deuteronomy 6:5-7 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. (6) And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. (7) You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
Matthew 19:13-14 Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, (14) but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
Let me suggest very strongly to you that many, many local churches, pastors, and church members are indeed violating these sobering commands of Christ. They might as well go start looking for a rock to tie around their neck right now and jump in the ocean. Why? Because they are enabling and justifying evil in their midst. They are not effecting justice for the widow and orphan. They are not champions of the oppressed. They walk in sin, then come to church on Sunday with their holy disguise on and no one ever calls them to accounts for it.
But the children see it.
Might I also suggest to you that if churches and pastors would repent and start obeying Christ, if they would begin to confront “Christians” who are walking in sin and hypocrisy, several things would happen:
1) There would be rioting in the pews.
2) Many people would leave.
3) Children would see justice and righteousness modeled. Real Christianity. The real stuff Jesus calls us to.
And maybe, just maybe, those kids will grow up and know Jesus is real, that God’s Word is truth, and that Christ has a remnant of His true flock against which the gates of hell have not prevailed.
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Carmen S.
Mom lived here for in MI for about 15 years. You are right, MI is beautiful in the summer. If it weren’t for the requirement of cold, I even love the long snowy winter.
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I have been patiently reading the comments here as the conversation progresses and truly respect the humanity of each individual. Our life stories are so very different and yet, we are assured that God knows and sees everything.
To missdaisyflower,
Thank-you for sharing your compelling life with us, I love your sharing, and may God truly Bless and Comfort you always. I, for one, will never look on the daisies growing in my garden (many of which are volunteers as they seed themselves quite beautifully) the same. While they grow in a dime a dozen, you, my friend, are a true rarity, a picture of beauty amongst the rag weeds.
The daisies in those country gardens will from now on, remind me of you and your faith in Jesus Christ, and Him alone. I love what you have shared and will choose not to argue, nor condemn you, for I respect your person. And Jesus does as well, so with that, may I share a wonderful truth with you that is held in high esteem? I have this thought that you know this one well…….
“Now, Jacob’s well was there. Jesus, therefore being wearied from His journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour. A woman from Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give me a drink.” For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. Then the woman from Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For the Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.”
“Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
“The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then, do You get that living water?” “Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?”
“Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst. But the water I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
“The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come to draw.” Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.” The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, “You have it well said, ‘I have no husband.’ for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband, in that you spoke truly.”
“The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
“Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither worship on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know, we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.”
“God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (Who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
continued
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“And at this point the disciples came, and they marveled that He talked with a woman, yet no one said, “What do You seek?” or “Why are You talking with her?”
“The woman then left her waterpot, went her way into the city, and said to the men, “Come, see a Man who told me all things that I ever did. Could this be the Christ?” Then they went out of the city and came to Him.”
John 4:6-30
What profound truth spoken here as the Spirit cuts to the heart of man/woman.
-Did not Jesus speak to a woman?
-Did not Jesus speak to a woman of ill repute?
-Did not Jesus speak to a sinner who directly revealed her sin?
-Did not Jesus still treat her with respect although she was a filthy, disgusting sinner, so in need of “fixing, so to speak?”
-Did not Jesus ask her for a drink of water from the well, enlisting her help, when He could have miraculously done so Himself?
-Did Jesus not tell her of His living water that brings true everlasting life to the soul, not the temporal satisfaction to carnal thirst?
-Did Jesus not speak of worship as commanded by God, our Father, as an act that takes place neither on a mountain or in a city, but as an act in spirit and truth?
-Did not the even the disciples question in their own lofty minds, Jesus’ decision in “speaking with a woman, a Samaritan woman no less whose worth was probably less than that of dogs.”
-And did not that woman make her way into the city to witness of this man, this prophet, this Jesus, with whom could be and was her Messiah?
I am completely broken and undone here, what a witness to the testimony of God’s redeeming grace, through Jesus, the Christ!
Oh, to even be a petty little creature of the Diptera order of insects, commonly known as a “fly”, clinging to the walls of this well and listening to this exchange take place between a sinner and our LORD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, would have been a worthy honor. Well, we are not flies, thank goodness, so I, another woman at another country well, will gloriously cling to the truth of God’s Holy Word here and magnify His Holy Name above all Names…………
Praise Jesus and Oh, what a Savior is He for their is power in His Word.
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Katy,
Beautifully said.
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@BrendaR:
So long as his Theology is Perfectly-Parsed and his Hands are all a-Flutter.
And I have seen that “quiet, calm, with explanation” with various intellectual snobs. Add “POLITE(TM)” and you have a Sociopath. And what happens when you disagree in any way with a control-freak Sociopath, no matter how “quiet, calm, and POLITE(TM)” they might be? As Lewis wrote in the preface to Screwtape Letters, “the shell cracks and the scalding lava of their hatred spills out.”
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@Daisy:
Because when they “man up”, they become a Threat.
Again, There Can Be Only One.
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They’re trying to employ the political tactic of drawing in different interest groups by pandering to their supposed issues. Since men are supposedly under-represented in the churches, obviously (isn’t it obvious?) the fix must be to rant and rave about how much of a manly man Jesus was. That’ll bring in the men! Of course, it won’t. Why are men avoiding the churches? The reason is a doctrine that the Protestant priesthood can’t abandon without ceasing to be itself: faith alone. When the New Testament was established the warmongering virtue of proving you’re a real man by brutally killing the infidel was replaced with proving you’re a real man with morality and self-control. But the Protestant popes have taken that away: actions don’t matter. So religion has become “women’s business” because women are content to engage in pursuits that offer no reward for achievement (so the theory goes anyway). Men have to be engaged in competition, right? Well, in reality, nobody wants to waste their time on something that offers no rewards for their ACTION, so ultimately both sexes are kicking Calvianity to the curb…but men do so quicker for some reason.
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HUG,
I really need to read more Lewis. “the shell cracks and the scalding lava of their hatred spills out.” This would describe the ex-husband.
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david, Faith without works is dead, eh? I totally agree but will take it a step further…Faith IS a commitment to “doing” –because you believe.Lots of people believe wrong things which means they do wrong things. Some mega church pastors come to mind.
The absolute most devastating twisted doctrinal stance that has brought us more despots in Christendom from Calvin on is the idea that ONLY believing the right thing will save us. Jesus’ taught “repent and believe”. Repenting is changing from inside out. Oh, and it seems Jesus thought we were capable of doing so without God forcing us.
I like how NT Wright puts it: We are most “human” when we are reflecting God back out into the world. We are less human when we aren’t.
This is the opposite of what most of Protestantism is teaching which means at some point people tend to see the church as redundant. What is the point?
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Lydia, the Greek word pistis has been typically mistranslated “faith”, “belief”. It’s meaning is “faithfulness”.
Sounds like a “doing” word, doesn’t it?
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Great point, Carmen. Oh what lies we have believed. That Jesus hung on the Cross and Resurrected so we believers would have an excuse to do evil and live lives of deception and lying. So we could say, oh sinners sin. No big deal, they are only “human”. This is the expectation from believers concerning those who even make a living teaching others about Jesus!
Here is a clue: The same scripture tells us that demons believe Jesus is/was God in the Flesh. Demons “believe” the “right” doctrine. So there has to be more to it, one would think. But the false dichotomy presented in most of Protestantism today is sinless perfection OR continuous sinning against others. I happen to think “sinless perfection” is a deflection. Scripture actually tells us to be perfect like our heavenly Father. As in “be complete, be mature, fully developed.
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MissDaisy, saw a bunch of comments on your part, and I’m going to try to answer here. Your point that many churches don’t have much for singles is absolutely true. I remember visiting a singles class back when I was in college where they all but put sawdust on the floor, it was such a meat market. Ewww…. And I’ve also actually taken part in singles ministry, and now that I think back on it, it is striking that it was almost completely free-lance. My wife and I are still in touch with a lot of the people there, 15 years later.
And it is also worth noting that even in most patriarchal or complementarian churches, women are in places of authority. It’s called a “director of ministry” rather than “deacon” or “elder”, of course, but it’s there. My favorite church ever–not perfect but my favorite–was one where the deacons each assumed an active role in one or more ministries. Mine were the legal end of things and the nurseries–more complementary than it ought to be in this age of people abusing children, to put it mildly.
It was noteworthy how this worked out–men who interact from day to day are completely different than those who just go to meetings and make decisions, to put it mildly. In other churches where the deacons mostly go to meetings, there is a lot more “my way or the highway” and authoritarianism–no matter what the church constitution says about things.
And regarding nurseries; agreed that not everybody is at their most content holding a baby, and others really ought not be near children. I get that–though I derive great pleasure from the company of children myself.
But that said, there are a lot of other people in churches who more or less figure that their work is done when they get to a certain age, and they oddly don’t seem to figure out that if they don’t make children welcome, that church building is going to be used for a different purpose after they pass on.
Same basic principle as you enunciate regarding singles. Apart from a lucky few who marry high school sweethearts and live happily ever after, they’re the future families of the church, aren’t they? Well, maybe it’s time to reach out to them too, isn’t it?
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Lydia said: “david, Faith without works is dead, eh? I totally agree but will take it a step further…Faith IS a commitment to “doing” –because you believe.Lots of people believe wrong things which means they do wrong things. Some mega church pastors come to mind.
The absolute most devastating twisted doctrinal stance that has brought us more despots in Christendom from Calvin on is the idea that ONLY believing the right thing will save us. Jesus’ taught “repent and believe”. Repenting is changing from inside out. Oh, and it seems Jesus thought we were capable of doing so without God forcing us. ”
It strikes me anew, thinking of works and faith, and faith without works, that unbelievers of my acquaintance do a heck of a lot more good than most of the people at the self-centered church (actually, family-centered, as in the Bayly teaching “God has brought more people to the faith through families than through evangelism) that we left. They may do their works without faith (at least, bible faith), but they put many believers (self included) to shame.
Regarding the second paragraph quoted above: A corollary to that would be that if you feel smug or superior to people in other churches (or perhaps pity for believers and unbelievers alike who do not have your advantages), you are quite possibly sitting under the wrong teaching, and may even be involved in a cult.
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Missdaisyflower said: “There are a small number of token women “talking heads” for CBMW and similar gender complementarian groups, that is true, but by and large, it’s appears to me that Christian men are the ones who are weirdly obsessed with how manly God or Jesus were or are, how men should and shouldn’t act, what women should do, and who write about gender topics constantly, like limiting what women may do in church and marriage.”
You know, I am coming more and more to view these women as… the term escapes me, but it’s the animal that is trained to lead the other animals of its kind to the slaughterhouse. It doesn’t get slaughtered, itself, it simply reassures the others by “knowing” the path, and leads them to their doom.
There were Jews who had this job in the concentration camps in the 1940s, come to think of it.
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@refugee:
JUDAS GOAT.
Or BLACK SHEEP, as they had to be visually distinct from those they were leading to slaughter.
And “a small number of fill-in-the-blank talking heads” was a common shtick of dictatorships of the past century, spinning how “we’re not really like that, look how tolerant we really are.”
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Ah, Judas goat. I thought it might be something like that, but I couldn’t remember for sure. Thanks.
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(Black sheep? How interesting! I’d heard of “black sheep” as referred to a troublesome child in a family, but not this usage. Makes sense, though. Wouldn’t want to accidentally slaughter the trained traitor.
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Wonder how many people hated God or gave up on God and went on their journey of self destruction, death (suicide), cursing God (like Job’s wife told him to do), their total wilderness journey. Or, going to hell over their pastor and or church? Heard many a story*.
Mandy: What if we ALL had a life plan and did our jobs first, work ethic to pay our bills and provide time/money for ourselves/family rather than waking up when in late 30’s/40’s realizing you paid for pastor’s lifestyle and fulfilling his philanthropic dreams, God nor homeless/poor etc., didn’t get any money (felt lived my life through and for someone else). Ann/Marsha: I could have been a Nun for all my time/works in and for the church, as MAD as I am at myself and grieved for ever being raised in the church and feel like it was ALL a waste! GOD DOES NOT WASTE A THING or circumstance.
A. Amos Love 8:30/8:54/9:46am Post is so true and Paul’s also.
Brian: “I just got tired of hating myself so much because I fully understand that God loathes me with divine rage from the foundation of the universe”. I felt like God was beating me up with a bat in heaven for years. This is why people are exiting, yoked out with pastor’s evil agenda, getting neglected and ignored. One of the main reasons why started exposing injustices in church, evil hirelings took money and did NOT HEAL up the people. A lot of adults have been exiting, especially when in this recession in losing jobs/houses they found out they tithed for years and when they needed help, they got shamed, ignored, ostracized, run out ABSOLUTELY NO HELP! Charisma had the audacity to publish an article by a every legalistic pastor in Sacramento area that was bashing church exiters. Graham Cooke ” The Life of Joseph” message really helped me understand the why of it all especially the abuse.
In reading Ann’s/Marsha program schedules of church; had realization that their was dead programs going every night of the week to where didn’t have time for self. I woke up and felt like was kept poor, broke and stupid NO life plan and couldn’t afford life. Not to find out being in a church OVER 25 years and when needing help, rides to church, follow-up after surgery etc you find the pastor(s) just don’t care or have servanthood program in place for such dire needs but you were great as long as you brought in tithe and built their kingdom. I was at a conference 4-16-1998 and the main speaker (JillAustin) was the first woman I’d ever heard of addressing woman in church being abused, wow. Then was in a church where intercession couple stood up and the wife rebuked the entire church of husbands abusing their wives. Many years took abuse stories public, finally the former editor of charisma investigated and starting writing about (TX abuse hotline, #1 caller was pastors wives). Marsha would take your 9:29am lament expose that pastor to Rick Ross Institute, J.Lee Grady, Trinity Foundation in Dallas, TX, Christianity Today, H.B. London Jr@Focus on the Family. *How IHOP Made Me Hate God/Carp the Hell Out of the Diem by Caris Adel was grievous read with my two cents on comments. Robin Mark Revival in Belfast great worship tape to get over church abuse. Tks. To all.
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Dear WOW,
Wow, Shocked and grieved to tears here over your post. May I lift you up in prayer to the One who loves you the most? Not because of my self righteousness, but because of our LORD’S righteousness made perfect through us. Your words are piercingly true.
Psalm 4:1-3…..Hear me when I call, O GOD of my righteousness!
You have relieved me in my distress; Have mercy on me, and hear my prayer.
How long, O you sons of men.
Will you turn my glory to shame?
How long will you love worthlessness
And seek falsehood?
But know that the LORD has set apart for Himself him who is godly;
The LORD will hear when I call to Him.
There are times when the persons from the institutional church system, 501c. 3, will not be there for you in times of trials and tribulations for God knows the minds and hearts of every man/woman. Facades may, and often do, fool other people/fools, but God knows the soul of His sheep as well as the soul of every goat. Please be encouraged this day in your strong faith in Jesus Christ, for He calling out a people unto Himself. And often, as in my case, you may find that those souls who do not belong to organized religion, and yet are faithful followers of Jesus and love Him with all their heart, mind and soul, will be the ones to witness and offer assistance to you. After my surgery, it wasn’t the churched that sent cards with Scripture verses, or brought meals over, offered prayers, and visited about what we were learning from God’s Word, or called to inquire how I was feeling/doing…..it was God’s ekklesia, or His called out ones that ministered to my tired, achy being.
I grew up Lutheran, and in all of my years attending a Lutheran church, I have not heard one intercessory prayer offered up to the Father, on behalf of anyone in those congregations, in the name of Jesus Christ. These religious systems (the ones I attended faithfully as a paying member) NEVER prayed for one another………perhaps when Jesus said “You brood of vipers,” He meant this for all time. So WOW, please know that you are the temple of God, the Holy Spirit and a “living stone” as Jesus calls us. And as the Holy Spirit dwells inside of you, allow Him to lead you as you minister to those of us here as well as those outside of your home. You are a living, breathing church wherever you go and I, for one, am so thankful you are a part of this ministry here. Praise God.
There are times when we are led to give money to those who are struggling paying bills of any kind rather than giving it to a church who wants to have a fancy new church sign (just an example here.)
Church signs don’t go to heaven or hell, people do….so why not invest in a soul?
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LydiaOO: TOO FUNNY, “taking your teen to church today, could be a form of bad parenting”, SO TRUE. I’m only read up to Nov. 7th.
Kelly, 11/6. @ 10:14 so true and so many dead churches like that. So much New Age propaganda and dead rhetoric that comes out of these churches, ALL man made. Like reading psychology section of the newspaper when people were waiting for the Word=Bible. Majority of people DO NOT KNOW WHAT a true church looks like. Elderly Man called my former AOG/Ag cult, “A f_cking Country Club that carries a Bible” and tithe is your membership. Austin Miles would expose in book “Don’t Call Me Brother” I consider them no different from Mormonism (your getting their god, their jesus, their unholy spirit). Plus they find these golden-haired boys to promote and to be the end be all evangelist to suck out your brains, time, money; and to be the next generation of used car salesman selling their dead religion. We don’t think to look at who started these organizations, foundations as well as very unhealed pastor himself, his childhood to become a little dictator/Napoleon complex type. Dick Suthpen “Christian Brainwashing”, an excellent article.
One of the things that woke me up is the pastor standing up and asking for a million dollars month to keep building going and expenses, for what? Building that stayed empty most of the week and when wanted program to help feed/cloth the poor and showers, we were told they “didn’t want those types of people in the church”, Jesus does.
Not to mention time he spent BEGGING for money each week, that was a major clue to exit. So much manipulation and control=witchcraft to coerce $ out of the people (as much as have issues with Rick Joyner, he wrote an excellent article “Overcoming Witchcraft”.
A. Amos Love/PaulsPassingThoughts: can you give some insight to this: I’ve been saying this for Decades, that the church has become a tool in the hand of satan to destroy the family. Come out of a Matriarchal run church that the women goo goo gah gah’d over the pastor and put him on a pedestal and dethroned their husbands off that seat in their heart; what I would call committing spiritual Mast_rbation and Spiritual Adultery being discontent with their lives, home and children*. Living their life through his bragging, charisma, exploits in travel etc. Very sad for husband who was father and provider also; Men many men who told me either themselves or their friends wives would give money to Hinn, Crouches, robbing their families of items to keep Charleton’s in their lavish lifestyle while they worked two jobs. Know married woman, NONE of the plumbing worked in the house, but she was giving all her money to Hinn and invited to his special dinners. Funny thing was, she had extra invites so called major news reporter to come along, I totally wrote up the sham/scam (now I know why Hinn has so much security mafia to throw out/remove reporters). Read John Bloom article on Hinn posted on Trinity Foundation Dallas, Tx or order David Wegner’s DVD when he talks about false prophet (shocking); you ought to see that and Dateline’s expose’s on what own, worth, LAVISH lifestyle. Single parent whose child confronted you can give money to the church but you can’t buy me a coat or backpack for school? Wow. Why are so many women like this in the church abandoning their family and for years? Worse, Jeff Crippen this pastor put men in leadership positions that abuse their wives like Sunday School Teachers etc.; we don’t realize that sin is over and effects everyone. Was at City Faire Day and when people out went to that church as they had booth, general public told me they called it “the church from hell”, main sanctuary looks like hell, black, dark grey, red in color, removed all outside lighting like theater, expect flames to be shooting up from the floor anytime (was caregiving, took client to the church 24 years after leaving). Even the children’s church was in Black. Can you imagine taking your child to a room like something out of the hell scene in “legend”? No thanks.
DETC/MissDaisyFlower: So, so many people are not finding community; let me reiterate and NO HELP when needed, so definitely exiting. What’s great is you can have your grievance blogged or posted, like in Rick Ross Institute, Trinity Foundation, Dallas, Tx, have Charisma/Christianity Today investigate. You know your in a cult when the pastor tells you who to date and who to marry and telling couples to unengage and marry other people, pretty sick stuff out there. Or, the 17 year old that went down to accept Jesus and they wouldn’t let him because he didn’t have shoes on (barefoot teen). H. A. Lewis talks about how a pastor wouldn’t let him except Jesus in his book “Unholy Anointing” book. Really grievous what’s out there in the guise of church/Christianity/pastor! This Blog is community, yeah!
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I can’t even find a Christian person to go to a Christian concert with me. How is that for community. I have asked everyone I know and barely know. It is discouraging.
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have you been to a church?!!
young women everywhere.
young men disdain church, pastors use it as a way to control men into eternal servitude to women ( supposedly under sacrificial love) young women attend to get a husband they can control and pastors ( generally male) get more money and praise and attendance from women cause the pastor always attacks men ( Chandler etc)
open your eyes, the christian Patriarchy you talk about- and rightly so!! is the minority.
most churches have a disdain for men or men who think they have a unique role or something different about being male.
reject men- off to the video games!
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Jonathan Bee,
I don’t know what churches you are talking about, but I think you have this whole thing upside down.
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All the churches I go to young men outnumber young women by like 3 to 1. But these are not faith alonist woosy pansy Christianity churches. These are churches where obedience is emphasizes and OSAS is seen as Satan worship.
What women look for in religion is tolerance of promiscuity; what men look for is traditional morality and Law, rules. Yes, men who are evil will accept a religion that teaches faith alone, but they won’t attend church, they’ll only use it as an excuse not to. Men will attend a church that teaches morality, but women are less likely to. So its a trade off. The more emphasis on pansy subjects like grace, forgiveness, love, the less men. The more emphasis on obedience, the less women. You have to find the happy medium.
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davidbrainerd2,
“women look for in religion is tolerance of promiscuity” I hope you are joking.
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Not all women, of course. But the younger ones, absolutely. If a church has any standards on slutty dressing, expect it to have few young women there. If it has any standards on sleeping around, expect it to have basically none.
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“Or, the 17 year old that went down to accept Jesus and they wouldn’t let him because he didn’t have shoes on (barefoot teen).”
Why do you need a pastor to accept Jesus? I’m sure we’re talking about a Baptist church here so its not like this kid was seeking to be baptized. He was undoubtedly brainwashed against it, and the pastor wouldn’t baptize ANYONE is a million years. So why’d the kid not just say the sinner’s prayer at home and be done with it? Or if he did want to be baptized, why didn’t he have the sense to ask some random person on the street to perform the baptism rather than a antibaptism Baptist pastor?
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If women don’t want churches to uphold promiscuity, then why do they? Why do they teach faith alone and OSAS? Are you telling me those non-attending men want this taught? Well they don’t attend, so why does anyone listen to them? It has to be that those little sluts keeping the church going want this. They go get their abortion pills right after leaving church and then head to the club, right? If not, how could they stomach a religion that teaches faith alone and OSAS, which amounts to “be a slut and you can still be saved!”??? If they weren’t sluts, they’d either beat the pastor for teaching this false doctrine, or vote with their feet by ceasing to attend. (Of course, I’m exaggerating, but its to make a point.) And that point is: STOP SUPPORTING FALSE DOCTRINE BY ATTENDANCE. Any woman attending a Baptist church I will assume is a gigantic whore because she’s sitting there listening to the doctrine of whoredom that makes whore and justifies whores in their whoredom, and justifies man-whore too, and the pastors of those churches we know are man-whores and abusers of women, because they practice what they preach which is faith alone and OSAS, or in other words, immoralism.
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@davidbrainerd2, “pansy subjects like grace, forgiveness, love…” You mean the Gospel? ‘Cause that’s what the Gospel is all about.
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davidbrainerd2,
Have you been hurt by some one from a Baptist church. I go to what is a Baptist church with the word Baptist taken out mostly because of the bad press around Baptist churches these days and they were independent so what difference does it make. There are lots of young women and young men attending. I can think of at least 3 churches in my area first hand that either have Baptist in their name or not that have both young women and men attending. In the church I attend, we have more women than men going on to the mission field not to whoredom.
I do believe in Once Saved Always Saved, perhaps the young women you knew were not saved at all. Promiscuity should be dealt with within the church and not turned a blind eye towards, but to the that all Baptist churches are whores is pushing it a bit IMO. Do you not know how powerful the blood that Jesus shed on the cross and his death and resurrection are? If belief in what He accomplished on the cross is strong enough to save me, it is strong enough to keep me that way.
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:awrence, They’re panzy subjects when they’re by themselves and all the emphasis is on them. Certainly they’re not the gospel by themselves. There’s this little thing called repentance that is always preached by the apostles, and no contrary to Baptist heresy it is not “repent of not believing in Jesus and believing in Jesus” but repent of sins. For example, when Peter preached in Acts 2:38 the guys crying out “men and brethren what shall we do” obviously already beleived or they wouldn’t have been asking that with such urgency. So when Peter said “Repent and be baptized” it wasn’t “repent of not believing in Jesus” since they had obviously already done that.
Brenda, its not that anyone in the Baptist church has hurt me personally, but Baptists have destroyed society. They’re would be no Planned Parenthood molech temple without Baptist OSAS. Nor would there be half the filth that exists now. The Baptist religion is just “say Jesus, then go to the bar get drunk and sleep around.” There’s no gospel to it, because it rejects repentance entirely. A divine whipping boy who took your whooping so that you won’t even have to repent is NOT the gospel. Jesus didn’t die so we can live like the devil and still be saved. Jesus died to wash away our sins, but also to lead us to repentance. He died as Mary was told by the angel “to save his people FROM their sins” not to save them IN their sins. The Baptist cult reverses that completely.
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davidbrainerd2,
I have NO idea where you met these Baptist’s, but none of what you have said has been my experience at all. OSAS does not mean a free pass to continue in sin. It means freedom from sin and a new path in Christ.
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Brenda, Don’t give me pee in a cup and call it lemonade. Forgiveness of sins is a new path in Christ. OSAS is continue in sin and laugh at a weak pathetic god who can’t touch you anymore no matter what you do. You don’t need OSAS to have a way forward in living the Christian life. Every decent Christian that ever lived believed they could lose their salvation if they persisted in grave sin, as many passages warn you can; only hell-bound sinners diehard for continuing in grave sins believe in OSAS, or the extremely brainwashed who refuse to turn their brains back on, which ultimately just ends up the same when you get right down to it.
(I’ve actually never used that expression before, but there’s no place more fitting for it than here.)
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david,
I know Christians that believe they can loose their salvation that have never witnessed to another living soul. I fear God because I love God, not because of what he can do to me. Which he can do anything he wants. If diehard sinners, perish it is because they never accepted Jesus Christ and were never filled with the Holy Spirit. I think your “expression” is vulgar.
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“I know Christians that believe they can loose their salvation that have never witnessed to another living soul.”
If this is the case it is because without fail all non-Christians and atheists espouse the Baptist position. It does become very annoying that when you try to share your faith with an atheist they begin to argue in favor of faith alone and OSAS. All non-Christians are functionally Baptists. I guess this is why I really can’t stand you Baptists. You’ve spread your false doctrine to the world as a protective blanket to protect them against the gospel lest they believe it and be saved. God will surely reward you according to your works, which are evil.
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Jeff Crippen and Hi Julie Anne: Jeff, can you PLEASE address Pastor’s, Wolves, False Shepherd’s, Hirelings what the Podium/platform/pulpit is to be used for along with the so-called church. Went to a funeral of church left in the late 80’s of one of the most evil, narcissistic pastor’s ever met who forgot God’s Love, Grace, Mercy, Compassion and it was about Gospel message/Bible, Soul’s, Salvation (yes, God is Holy and Just etc when you have an agenda to destroy people who offended you and make EVERYONE pay, SO SAD). He was building his kingdom/dynasty when Board and people wanted him held accountable and boy did it get ugly at the time. 26 years later, the man looked like the walking DEAD, totally spiritually constipated, no life, no joy (hasn’t learned forgiveness he who used to say “he knew the Bible better than anyone else”; but NEVER lived, he also used to say/curse people when exiting with wrong words, like “you will never find another church like this one” etc.
Funeral is someone’s loved one; he tried to give the Gospel Message (half-hearted attempt and it came over as Guilt, Condemnation, Criticism, so yucky). When it could have been a total “Life Celebration”. Funny thing about it, saw who were the faithful minions worshipped this guy, sad thing is I know a lot of their grown children moved away, don’t have a great relationship with parents and had really no life plan because we had lived our lives/time around church. A root of bitterness springs up and defiles many and for years. Please write an article on that one. Thank You!
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Brenda R. I would have gone with you to a concert! Went to a Concert in Michigan to hear Robin Mark “Revival In Belfast, Come Heal Our Land” etc., in Michigan @ Mackinaw Island at Winsome Women Conference=great (approx. 3,000 women and the food=fabulous)! It was either that or Canada (too hard to Travel to Ireland)! Island should be on everybody’s Bucket List, no cars only Horse/Buggy’s and Bikes=wow and interesting History! Learned about Island from Movie: “Somewhere In Time”
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