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VCY America Founder sends letter threatening legal action to his daughter, Ingrid Schlueter, via attorney Patrick Russell
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There’s a section in the bible on civil lawsuits in 1 Corinthians. I remember looking up this passage after I was sued by my former pastor and church. I wondered how he could call himself a pastor and still be able to preach this passage from the pulpit with honesty and integrity after suing five former church members. Here is the passage on civil lawsuits:
1 Corinthians 6:1-11
Lawsuits Against Believers
6 When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!
Now, what’s interesting is the following paragraph is also part of the “lawsuits” section. Why would this paragraph be included under Lawsuits Against Believers? The word, reviler, is one of the choice words my pastor used against me, yet he was the one who filed a lawsuit, going against clear biblical teachings. Perhaps this passage is saying that my pastor, the initiator of the civil lawsuit against Christians, was the true reviler:
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
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Vic Eliason Threatens Lawsuit against Family Members
Today I share with you a very sad story of another threatened lawsuit brought on by one man against his adult Christian children. We’ve seen this before in the case of Pastor Bob Grenier of Visalia Calvary Chapel who filed a civil lawsuit against his son, Alex Grenier and Tim Taylor. The Grenier case is not over. It is two years old and is currently in appeals. Can you imagine the emotional toll on Alex and Tim and their families as they have this dark cloud and financial burden hanging over their heads?
But now that brings me to this very sad situation between Vic Eliason and his daughters, Ingrid and Lisa, and their extended family (be sure to check out the comments here to see the extent to which this conflict has affected even the extended family). It’s important to note that Schlueter has sought Christian mediation to help get resolution to these conflicts to no avail (see: Of Bullies, Cowards and Decapitated Squirrels).
Vic Eliason Background
Some may be unfamiliar with Vic Eliason, so here’s some background:
In 1973, Eliason led the Milwaukee Youth for Christ chapter out of the national organization, renaming it “Voice of Christian Youth.” Now known as VCY America, it is a Christian broadcasting ministry based in Milwaukee. VCY currently oversees 15-20 stations mostly across the Upper Midwest, depending on the source, not including its Internet site, a 24-hour a day, seven days a week, television station in Milwaukee, which is WVCY-TV 30, began in 1982, as well as several “translator” and “satellator” stations. The ministry is 100 percent funded through listeners’ and supporters’ donations. (Source).
That last line about donors is important to note – more later on that. Wikipedia also adds this info in the personal section:
Eliason is married to Freda M. Eliason (born 1935), and the father of three adult children – Andrew Carl Eliason (born about 1964), who is employed as an engineer at VCY; Ingrid J. Schlueter (born about 1966), former producer and co-host of the Crosstalk Radio Talk Show on the VCY America Radio Network (resigned from VCY America in May, 2011) ; and Lisa C. Turner (born about 1968), both of whom formerly worked at the radio ministry.
Notice the key phrase in the bottom line: “both of whom formerly worked at the radio ministry.” In addition to Ingrid and Lisa formerly working for Eliason, Lisa’s husband, Russ was fired after working for Eliason for 24 years, and Ingrid’s husband, Tom, also worked for the ministry for 20 years. If you’ve been counting, we’re now up to four family members no longer working for Vic Eliason’s ministry. When you look at the length of time these family members worked for Eliason and now have left or been fired, it makes one question: what is really going on?
Ingrid Schlueter Background
Some may be familiar with Ingrid Schlueter’s ministry work. Here is part of her bio from her blog:
My name is Ingrid Schlueter and I am a wife to Tom, mother of six children and former talk radio host of 23 years. I also published the Slice of Laodicea news and comment blog for 7 years covering some of the big issues within evangelicalism. (Source)
In my opinion, Ingrid has had solid understanding of biblical truths and a keen sense of spiritual discernment, especially when it comes to corrupt Christian leaders. Some blog readers might remember when she commented on my blog about resigning from the Janet Mefferd show after Janet Mefferd confronted Mark Driscoll about plagiarism. Schlueter has seen and studied spiritual bullies and abuse in church and Christian groups. She has written some wonderful articles and produced videos helping others understand it (Ingrid’s The Hope Blog has been listed in my blog’s side bar for quite some time.)
Ok, back to the threatened lawsuit situation – take a look at the letter Russell Law Associates, LLC, sent to Ingrid and Tom Schlueter (I have redacted personal home address):
Letter from Attorney
Family disputes are very complicated. But to file a civil and very public lawsuit against your own adult children? Please, Mr. Eliason, let’s use some common Christian sense here.
First of all, if you’re going to find an attorney, find a good one with no baggage – I’m assuming this is the same attorney, it’s the same state.
Defamation – What does it really mean?
I sometimes have to laugh when attorneys use the “defamatory” word. It is up to the courts to decide what word or phrase is defamatory or not, not some podunk Wisconsin lawyer throwing around legalese to threaten (disclaimer: this is JA’s opinion, lest some whacknut attorney try to sue me for defamation). Mr. Russell, you would be wise to look up defamation lawsuits and see how many cases are in fact successful. In my lawsuit, there were twenty-something alleged defamatory phrases and in order to meet the court’s definition of defamatory, two things had to be proven:
1) that I was intentionally lying, and
2) that my intentional lying was done with malice – the intent to harm.
Disclaimer: I am no attorney, but the words I share are based on information I learned during my defamation lawsuit (from my attorney who is a leading attorney on First Amendment in Oregon, and other sources).
Now, if Ingrid Schlueter is telling her story as she see it, that is her perceived truth. In court, Ingrid’s perceived truth would not be judged as a lie (even if it is in fact a lie). The plaintiffs in a defamation lawsuit would have to prove that Ingrid (and her sister, or anyone else named in the lawsuit) intentionally lied. I happen to believe Ingrid is telling the truth, but of course my opinion doesn’t matter in court. Okay, this is only the first level of the legal definition of defamation. We now move on to the next part, malice.
Let’s say that it is proved in court that Ingrid has lied (again, very difficult to prove), now the plaintiff must prove the intent of Ingrid’s heart – or malice. How in the world do you prove that? Again, in my case, not one of the alleged defamatory comments met even the first-level criteria of the court’s definition of defamation. If one cannot prove that someone intentionally lied, it’s going to be very difficult to prove in court someone had the intent to harm. Good luck with that one, Mr. Eliason and Mr. Russell.
Legal Letter: Really a legal matter or form of bullying or reviling?
Let’s just cut to the chase. This letter from Attorney Patrick Russell is a farce. He is throwing around big words acting like he’s going to make a real case over this situation. He doesn’t have one. It’s a bully method to tell someone to shut up (disclaimer: Julie Anne’s opinion). Abusers and bullies use all sorts of methods to control and using civil courts and threatening letters is just one more method. It happened to me, it happened in the Grenier lawsuit, and now we see it here with Ingrid Schlueter’s father.
It’s important to acknowledge what this really is and what it is not. This letter is Vic Eliason’s attempt to control who can talk. It is not an honest attempt to resolve conflict in a Biblical fashion (as the Schlueters have attempted to do via a mediator). It is certainly not appropriate behavior for a Christian to sue another Christian. It is not loving and gracious. Is this what the 1 Corinthians passage is referring to when they use the word reviler? There is no humility in paying an attorney to bully family members. Imagine what family times might be like with the Eliason, Schlueter, and extended families. I suspect Thanksgiving and Christmas will be a bit solemn as this fractured family reels with a pending lawsuit over their heads.
This shameful situation is now public. I hope Mr. Eliason will retract his attorney’s ridiculous letter and handle his family conflict using appropriate Biblical methods. This public display of suing family members in the civil courts makes him look like a fool and a bully.
Note to VCY America Donors
An important note to VCY America donors: I sure hope VCY America donors realize that hiring an attorney costs quite a lot of money. If this threatening letter results in a court case, it will likely be a lengthy one. Unfortunately, Wisconsin does not have anti-SLAPP laws to protect private citizens from frivolous defamation lawsuits, so this could drag on for years, incurring quite a bit of legal costs. The price tag of my very short defamation lawsuit was around $100,000 with combined attorney fees and court costs. A lengthy court case could easily be much more. Mr. Eliason will most likely lose the case, as most defamation lawsuits are lost. When he loses, he will probably have to pay for the defendants’ attorney fees, as well as his own. When you donate, will your money go to support this unbiblical lawsuit? Is this where Jesus would have you send your money?
related articles:
Of Bullies, Cowards and Decapitated Squirrels
This blog article outlines important details of ongoing struggles in this case:
“Vic Eliason recently sent a job termination letter to his son-in-law, Russ Turner, who has worked at VCY America for 24 years as a quiet, faithful and honest employee who is loved and respected by his co-workers. The letter of termination was laughable, particularly the claims that the buildings and grounds department (Russ and Paul) was being “decommissioned” (right as the snow season starts), and is being replaced with a “highly skilled team.” Vic signed the letter “the Governing Board.” The letter contained not a single thank-you for 24 years of faithful service.” ~Ingrid Schlueter
Vic Eliason Threatens to Sue Daughters and Families
“My sister called tonight and asked if I’d checked the mail. I hadn’t. Vic Eliason, our father, is threatening to sue us for attempting to get this shameful situation into biblical mediation with Peacemakers. He is characterizing all we have spoken, the truth, as defamation.” ~Ingrid Schlueter
“The present scenario facing our families has resulted in Vic and VCY America rattling legal sabers in an attempt to scare away natural consequences. The old secular TV game show of the 60’s and 70’s had it right–“Truth or Consequences.” The truth, which has slowly been coming out over the past three and a half years (actually over 25 years), is taking its natural course, shedding light on shadowy things–things that in the world of narcissism ought never be spoken.” ~Tom Schlueter
Spiritual Sounding Board 
RIP Vic, I forgive you for your ignorance and willingness to vouch for someone’s personal character without knowing them personally. My family has lived the reality. I feel no need to prove to you what we have gone through. The damage done to minds, emotions, spirits and finances is unassailable. My point is and has always been that public images of religious figures are often at odds with their personal reality behind the scenes. The info about what Vic was doing to me, his daughter and his son and law, and then his other daughter and son-in-law and our children, only went public when the abuse reached a point we cried for help. Matthew 18 was more than followed. Vic belonged to no church, ever, as a member in his life. He had no pastor. He had no professional, let alone Christian, board of directors operating for his, his family’s and the ministry’s protection. He had a group of sycophants who refused completely to hear the cries of three employees, Vic’s own family, who had served over 63 combined years of service to the ministry and were donors, as well. That’s disgusting on every level.
This kind of thing never ends well. No accountability may seem to work for a time for these leaders, but someone is paying the price for it. In this case, Vic’s family. As to concerns this site is a cult, I laughed out loud at that. This group of people who have seen and lived the seamy underbelly of fundamentalist and evangelical ministries has been the one place to treat us with respect and dignity – Julie Anne’s site has been a voice for the voiceless. We are grateful. It’s fascinating that while we have the testimony of 11 adults, Vic’s own family, of what he did to all of us, your concern is only with Vic’s reputation, unless YOU decide what he did warrants our outcry. That pretty well sums up the current ministry-fan boy and girl mentality. Perps, not the victims, are the only ones that matter. Keep the votive candles burning, RIP Vic. Keep your memorial spotless. His own little granddaughter only remembers that this is the faceless man who rejected her birthday party invitations she sent.
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DeletedDaughter – You have been so kind in replying to RIP Vic. You are right. You have nothing to prove. Because besides family members, God is the ultimate Witness to all that has transpired.
Your perseverance can only come from the strength of the Lord and continues to remind me of His love for all of us who are being persecuted by family and “professing Christians”.
Continuing to pray for you and your loved ones.
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D.J.Kennedy was a great Christian and had a wonderful ministry and his daughter is helping to carry it on…don’t lump him with cults or anything remotely like it
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To Kathy and Deleted Daughter: I never defended him; I didn’t vouch for him. You both did with the inability to provide the public with details. Please go back and read my posts carefully… and this one too if you must.
You went public! Since you went public first, it is your burden of proof to expose Vic, a man in the public eye. Therefore, by definition, you are slandering and gossiping because you provide no proof, nor did you take legal actions. I’ll repeat it again, you went public first! Why should anyone with more than half a brain believe one side of the story, which is hazy, as fact?
Why go public with weak testimonies? With this, perhaps it’s hard for someone like me to see another side of him. After all, his character has been consistently upstanding for all the decades I’ve known him. Whatever it is, I’m sure there’s a lot more to the story.
However, I digress. Apparently, according to some here, nobody outside the family and station can know what happened, yet you still wish to publically defame a man that did great work for the Lord by casting doubts in vast amounts of minds that knew him on different levels. What does that accomplish?
Reconcile amongst yourselves, not in the public eye! You display yourselves as bitter pills. Unless I missed it, not even one accuser here clearly forgave him. These passages below speak to, in one way or another, what I’ve witnessed here on this board:
Matthew 12:36
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,
Psalm 101:5
Whoever slanders his neighbor secretly I will destroy. Whoever has a haughty look and an arrogant heart I will not endure.
Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
Okay, I really have to be going now. Say what you will hereafter, my guess is that attacks and self-serving defenses are eminent; however, my work is done here. I pray that all of you continue to deepen your understanding of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. May this stand as a record that exposes the wrongful manner of attacking one man’s character.
Rest In Peace, Victor Carl Eliason. Thank you, friend and brother in Christ, Amen.
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RIP Vic, have you ever seen a dead man reconcile? I sure haven’t.
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All I have to know to sympathize with Ingrid and her family is that he threatened to sue his daughter, wouldn’t go through any mediation process or take advice from other God loving folks in resolving the conflict, refused to reconcile with his family on his deathbed and refused to have anything at all to do with his grandchildren who were children and not involved in the family conflict. I don’t need to have details of the conflict paraded in front of me and I would have no right to demand them.
Blind followers of Ingrid? Oh nonsense! There are none here and she doesn’t want any! Like Ingrid, we are followers of Jesus.
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I guess I’m done here..this hate in public is only hurting everyone..no one has said what really happened..I’m sorry for the family if this is all true..but he can’t defend himself here either ..I always liked VCY..I only just recently heard of all this..I don’t know what to believe ..it is hard to believe he would sue for no reason…you guys are all judging too, and most of us don’t know what really went on..rip vic is right on much of this, and I can’t make a judgement unless the facts are there and all I read is angry hateful things. You criticize anyone who questions you guys too. We all need to pray for each other . We have huge problems in this country and the world that we may nor be able to overcome.. Vic is dead now, let it go..
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I will never “let it go” when innocent victims are harmed in God’s name. This place will continue to remain for those whose voices are silenced. It’s important to pay attention to Ingrid’s words about the public life of a Christian hero and also their private life. Why was he not accountable to anyone? Why did he sue? These are all similar patterns that we see time and again from abusers. He fits the pattern to a tee. I believe Ingrid, period.
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yes, why did he sue? Yes, what did he really do..what did he do in his ministry..from listening on the radio, I can’t see any of that..he had good guests..good subjects..so if he treated his family badly…why? I listened to Ingrid at times..thought she was pretty good, but she was very judgmental too at times…sometimes a few things in other shows irritated me, but no one agrees on everything…I tried to take the whole of it, not some of the little things to nit pick. So is she saying that all the other people involved in VCY are bad too??? They can’t all be…
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Lynn – are you insinuating that the late Vic Eliason was ‘never judgmental’ and yet you claim Ingrid was? (I think you better go to the archives and re-listen to some of the broadcasts)
Julie Anne stated it very well and I’m sensitive to this issue because I am a victim of abuser(s) who hide behind ‘good works’ and ministering within the church. I have not been allowed to finally speak the truth of abuse that I endured because it ruins ‘reputations’. I’m still enduring this and like Julie Anne I also cannot “let it go” when innocent victims are harmed and in God’s name.
Forgiveness does not mean we forget the sinful deeds otherwise we would be unwise and fall into the same trap again. “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.” Matthew 10:16
Being wise and caring for one another also means we warn others of such offenses. Sadly, those who abuse have many friends of like-mind who support them and the vulnerable are left to bleed.
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Dear Lynn,
And why would you expect to see anything in Vic’s public persona that he wouldn’t want us to see? That’s the nature of a public persona — it’s camouflage.
What does it matter why he mistreated his family? Does anything excuse that? And so what if the quality of his radio shows was good? That has nothing to so with the fact that the threatened to sue his own daughters.
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Dear RIP (in case you’re still lurking),
a) Please check the definition of “slander”.
b) What exactly would you accept as proof of the Schlueters’ claims about Eliason? We have a letter that proves he threatened to sue them. That already speaks against him.
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You know what really matters in any family tragedy? It’s not the reputation of this big name or that. I saw Vic enter eternity hours after his final lies to others about my sister and my visit to his beside days earlier. There was someone there who witnessed every comment, every blog post, every mailed letter, every phone call, every text. He’s called the Faithful Witness in Scripture—Jesus. He has seen every tear, has been there in the darkness of rejection and despair, confusion and shattered faith at times. Vic has already been before the Court of No Appeal. No enablers, no co-dependents, no more lies for cover. We’ll all face Jesus when we leave this life. If this Eliason tragedy points to anything, as all family tragedies do, it’s the urgency of taking a hard look to see if our faith goes beyond image, “right” positions on things, or bright banners against this or that flying over our heads. If you can’t love your own children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren, your faith is a total fraud, I don’t care how many great works you do before the public. I’m taking my own advice. Lots of self-assessment these days. Matt. 7:22-23
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I never said he wasn’t judgmental at times,but so was she..we all are at times..you are trying to make more of it than I meant…so what is so wrong with suing someone if it is warranted? Only he can answer why he did that as no one has told the details in this blog…You are asking us to demonize him, but we don’t know the details is all I’m saying….I’m sorry for all of you and him and his wife and the rest of the family.. It just seems you guys are acting the same way that you accused him of….unforgiveness..
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Dear deleted daughter,
I can relate to your last comment. I, too, have family who are well respected, well heeled and well known minor Christian celebs who are only interested in public image. I have been chilled at what they are willing to say or do and who they are willing to harm in order to prop up that image. In fact, it is that public image that keeps them from fearing the Faithful Witness which is all about truth— no matter how negative or costly.
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“Once again, we have someone defending a man based on outward appearances, but not having been behind closed doors where family deals with the reality they face. Please give it up, RIP Vic.”
Not only that but also behind the pulpit or stage or whatever else public persona they carefully craft. Cult of personality is alive and well in both the secular and evangelical worlds. It amazes me how easily duped I was to follow humans instead of Christ based upon public persona. I knew better.
How I came across Ingrid was way back in about 2005 when she was running Slice of Laodicea. It was about the only place discussing what I had witnessed in the church and around the celebrity Christian circles in those days. That site allowed for interaction or I would never have bothered.
That is key. Interaction. Questioning, Accountability for those who make their living off Jesus.
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Moderator note: Spiritual Sounding Board first and foremost is to be a safe place for survivors. While I do allow differing opinions here for discussion, in this case, there is no opportunity for reconciliation. The naysayers who only “knew” Vic Eliason through his ministry work will never know him personally. The family members who have been harmed will have to go to bed each night knowing there was unfinished business and try to move on from the pain.
If you are here to defend Vic Eliason, you may read, but all comments that defend him will deleted. From here on out, for the sake of his family and all survivors they represent, we will only be supporting Ingrid and her family or discussing spiritual abuse and its effects.
Thank you!
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Has anyone else noticed among the recent defenders of Vic that, except for Lynn who did say “I’m sorry Vic has died, I’m sorry for his family if they are estranged” yet then goes on to call his daughter “judgmental,” no one has offered any condolences to Ingrid for her loss? It’s tragic that Vic died while not reconciled with his family.
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You are so right, BTDT. They are so focused on defending Vic, the personal account of victims are in question during their time of loss and pain.
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The biggest. Thing about Vic Elliason filing a lawsuit is he LOST a major lawsuit and yet claimed not to” own” vcy.so who paid for that fiasco? And another question that falls on deaf ears,for a big time Christian saint-aircraft? A house in Brookfield? Always Begging for donations, yet what actual ministries were funded in milwaukee? The vcy network was the sole beneficiary? I think not. An empire was created that enjoys minimal oversight and Mr Eliasons actions. Strike me as those with a guilty conscience.
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I came to VCY through Ingrid’s blog, “Slice Of Laodicea”. To all the family and friends who are in pain. Just remember that the blood of Jesus forgives sin. If Vic has committed sin against you, then remember that this is why Jesus died. From your testimony he had bullish behavior. This is regrettable. But if Jesus truly was His Savior then Vic will never be bullish again. For he has been saved from the presence of sin. We will struggle down here as believers. I know I do. But someday it won’t be this way. For we will be like all the Saints who no longer struggle or mess up. We will no longer sin again. Praise His Name. What this reminds me of is that though we fight down here,struggle down here, and have conflicts of all kinds down here. When we get to Heaven we will put our arms around each other and laugh. Our relationships will finally be restored. I say this because down here Vic would not reconcile. This is no longer the problem since he has been freed from the presence of sin. Go in peace beloved Saints of God.
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I know that I’m coming to this party really late, but how come no one mentions the fact that Ingrid is divorced? She shouldn’t have been on the radio doing “ministry” work because of this one fact. Now her oldest son has converted to ‘catholicism’? Weird!!!
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Why should it matter that Ingrid divorced? You seem to be pretty judgmental.
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Agreeing with Julie Anne.
The Bible has The Answer — Why should it matter that Ingrid was divorced? And she had been this way for quite some time. Why did VCY keep her there except maybe because she was an asset; she was well respected by many ‘discerning listeners’.
As for Ingrid’s son converting to Catholicism?? That is a very private matter and as an adult he is capable of making decisions. There’s nothing weird in that. If that is your outlook in judging someone than my standing before the Lord is nil because personally – the man I married has renounced any spiritual commitment and no longer wants to be my husband and yet won’t divorce me for financial reasons (it’s all about money; nice guy) … and my home educated children have since ‘gone their own way’. The Christian faith is not to be discussed around them.
So, am I responsible for this? I did everything within the strength that God gave me to initiate that the Word be instilled from cradle til they left the house. SIN festering and the church refused to come to my aid. Hmmm, the church also claimed “the Bible has the answer”…. I know that but many wolves love to destroy.
I’m a little sensitive on this issue and I continue to contend earnestly for the true Gospel (Jude 3).
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Dear Bible Has an Answer – you left a message on my blog as well and your IP kinda gave away who you are. 🙂 What my adult children do is their business. I will say that the carnage they witnessed from fundamentalists like you growing up had no small part in my nearly 30-year-old son’s decision to leave it behind, I am certain. We love our kids unconditionally at our house, whether we have disagreements on things or not. That’s something I’m sorry you don’t understand, but let me encourage to look into it. It does wonders in our families and in our lives. I also would like to point out that I use my real name here. That’s because I am not ashamed of who I am or my life story. God uses broken people when we give him the pieces. The nasty opinions of others can never change what God is doing in our lives when we keep our eyes on him! Blessings.
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To Bible Has an Answer,
For many who have attended abusive c’hurch systems, myself included, I want you to know that while I was personally struggling with my faith in Jesus Christ, the website “A Slice of Laodicea” was one of the ways in which our LORD was showing me the truth of His Word. My former c’hurch was a conservative Baptist religion with an Assembly of God pastor, where ‘the lord’ was speaking to these people directly through audible communication, dreams, visions, trips to the third heaven, angelic visits, and ‘words’ from spirits. This ‘method’ was used and abused to manipulate, control and dominate those of us who were in the lower laity caste system as were to listen in awe and worship of their religious experiences and follow them. False teachers and preachers were endorsed with their mysticism, prophetic predictions, seven mountains mandate, lying signs and wonders, and false revival conferences and meetings and the rest of us ‘spiritual nothings’ were supposed to follow every wind of doctrine that our ‘spiritual mothers and fathers’ in that strange church building promoted. Listening and sitting under this spiritual “GARBAGE” about drove me crazy in trying to measure up to the AOG pastor man’s standards along with the leadership that loved to lord it over the rest of us. As a reminder to myself, this pastor MAN was caught in sexual sins of his own making, and finally left his cult on his own, meanwhile the ‘leadership’ still wanted him to remain as the c’hurches’ pastor. (What does this say about the leadership? Hmmm)
To you Bible Has an Answer, I was involved in a cult and I can only praise our LORD for leading me to Ingrid’s website during my time of suffering and pain, combined with so much confusion in my faith. Thank-you Jesus, for giving Ingrid the strength, wisdom and courage in showing this formerly confused believer and follower of Christ, the truth of God’s Word. May our LORD be with you, Ingrid and family, until the day we see Him face to face. Amen.
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Ingrid and healinginhim,
“like and love”
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The woman at the well was divorced, too. That didn’t stop Jesus from speaking with her. It didn’t stop her from witnessing to the people of her town. It didn’t stop those people from coming out to see Jesus. And “many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.”
And? One of my favorite bloggers, Elizabeth Esther, left her fundamentalist cult upbringing and became a Catholic. I’d bet the farm she’s touching more lives than “The Bible has The Answer” through her books, blog posts, and speaking engagements.
Your reasoning is an epic fail.
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Just a brief thank you to those who have written kind comments above. I also want to add that anyone who is being destroyed by another in a “marriage” and children emotionally shredded, without the slightest sign of repentance in the perpetrator, has an obligation to protect herself as a mother and as a human being of value in God’s sight. The attitude displayed by The Bible Has an Answer is one the reasons that many women in these circumstances do not get help in the church. These “Christians” are deluded into thinking that there is a marriage there to save, when the perpetrator violates every one of his vows over and over again, not the least of which is to “love, honor and cherish” his wife. I am grateful that much light has been brought to this issue and awareness of all kinds of abuse in the church in recent years. How wonderful that we have a forgiving Savior who carried all of our sins on the Cross and in whose presence all false pride, self-righteousness gets blown away like smoke. I’m praying for the individual who wrote the comment above that God will use whatever it takes in their life to remove this spirit of arrogance. There’s hope for anyone who bows the knee before the Cross.
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Ingrid, my view is that separation is what should be done in these cases. The Bible seems to say that divorce is only permissible by God when there is adultery or abandonment. Let’s say a woman has a rotten husband who is controlling,mean etc. She should separate. More than likely a man like this over time will find another woman. The the wife is free to file for divorce. Now it is possible the husband will come to his senses and get help, and then become the husband he should have been in the first place.
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VanPastorMan, Ingrid’s personal life is not on trial here. Please stick to the topic. I will be removing any more comments related to Ingrid’s personal life.
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I meant no disrespect,just commenting on what Ingrid said. Blessings to you and everyone else.
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VPM: “More than likely a man like this over time will find another woman. The the wife is free to file for divorce. Now it is possible the husband will come to his senses and get help, and then become the husband he should have been in the first place.”
So, what you are saying is that any woman who has separated from her husband due to his manipulation, abuse and control should now put herself in a position to be re-manipulated, re-abused and re-controlled, waiting for when HE decides whether he wants to return to the relationship or walk away.
I know of two examples that demonstrate the foolishness of this. One example, husband was addicted to porn and wife sought divorce. The church forbade the divorce and sent her back with instructions to submit. He was told to counsel for his porn. As long as she was trapped, he was “recovering nicely” in the church, but when she gave up and filed for divorce, he walked away. The church was just an extension of his control. The other example was where the husband had mental issues. He would shack up with a girl (not his wife) when he was feeling amazing, but when he wasn’t feeling so hot, his girlfriend would leave, he would find God and repent and try to be the loving father. This behavior repeated year after year, but this wife was told by her good Christian friends that God could use her to bring grace to her husband. After about 15 years of this, she finally divorced him.
The church harms the cause of Christ when it tries to polish crap. It calls evil good and good evil. It punishes the victim and shows grace to the abuser. You can pray and agonize all you want about broken relationships, but they are broken.
I was in a church with an abusive elder. I left and had an exit interview of sorts with another elder. I told him plainly that the other elder was abusive. His response: “We know. We’re dealing with it.” NO. That’s the problem. They WEREN’T dealing with it. They were showing him love, mercy and grace, and they were re-abusing his victims. He was never publicly called out for his abuse. He was never told to repent for his abuse to his victims, and instead of dealing with it, he runs the show because he refuses to compromise. Now the church has yearly vow renewal services so that they can abuse those who try to leave for forsaking their vows.
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Mark, those are two very good examples of how the church perpetuates abuse and re-victimizes victims. And we wonder why so many leave church altogether!
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I am not saying that a woman should be put in any position,except that she protects herself with integrity. She and her husband made vows to each other. Is she not supposed to take those seriously? When we get married we vow, “for better or for worse”. Do we really mean that when we say it? What I am advocating in the scenario of a man mentally or physically abusing a woman is for the woman to separate. This is playing hard ball because the man can no longer abuse her. But, what about the marital vows? Jesus spoke about adultery and Paul spoke about abandonment. If the erring husband finds another woman, which is very likely if he is that kind of man has then committed adultery and abandoned his wife. She is then free with God’s consent to divorce and remarry. Now, you only speak of a man who does not change. What about the man who loses his wife and then actually changes? Would it be better for both of them to remain married and stick to the vows they made? See, I think the marital contract is seen a lot today as though it can be broken for just about any reason. And what is the result? I’ve seen it many times where the couple who divorces for non biblical reasons finds someone else just like the first spouse or perhaps they are even worse. It’s a whole lot better to learn to get along with the first spouse if at all possible. The examples you gave are heart rendering. I feel deeply for those hurt. I would never ask a woman or man to go back to a spouse who is not truly repentant.
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The bad behavior breaks the vows. Not the response to the bad behavior. Sheesh!
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Sorry to hear about the break-up of the Vic Eliason family. It seems the problems stemmed from Vic not being accountable to anyone and therefore bereft of wise counsel. Other public ministries in the news lately seem to have suffered the same fate. We all must strive to be courageous keepers of our brothers by speaking up when we see them going astray.
My hope now is that the family’s mother, grandmother, and mother-in-law be loved on and counseled to stand in the gap and apologize for her silence. She must be so hurting as well as lonely. Hurt and anger must not prevail. Let the Balm of Gilead have His way, the force of love will conquer all evil.
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This news saddens me greatly. I had been a devoted listener to VCY for several years until the local Chattanooga radio station was sold and went BBN. I tried to find a source for hearing VCY but at the time I found only stations I could not receive. Now that I have found that I can hear VCY through the internet, I will continue to do so. I hope to hear some of the Christmas dramatic presentations I to which used to listen during this season. Tonight I heard “Treasures of the Snow”, one of my favorites!
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