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Did they change their minds? Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood removes Article about complementarian roles in new creation
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Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6
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Congratulations, friends! The last blog article, Is the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood Drinking Mormon-Flavored Koolaid?, created a lot of cyber uproar. Many public people passed it around on Facebook and Twitter, some wrote their own articles about it, and now it appears that the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW) has removed the article.
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Never fear, I saved a screenshot of it because it is important to know that this is the kind of agenda that CBMW promotes. Until reading that article, I had no idea that the ideology of complementarianism was to prepare women and men for the same roles in heaven. This idea is so disturbing.
Let’s be clear – – pulling the article does not mean CBMW has changed their ideology.
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This could be a simple maneuver to remove the evidence. It will be interesting to see if there is any public response.
If you missed the article the first time, here is the article in its entirety (and a cached copy here). Please read it.
Try to understand what CBMW stood behind. Think of the names of the men who are part of this “ministry” – – – the same ones trying to tell you and me about their perceived ideas of Biblical roles as men and women.
CBMW needs to close up shop. They are usurping the role of the local church by trying to teach people their whacko beliefs.
Here are the board of directors:
Executive Director: Owen Strachan
Ligon Duncan
Russell Moore
Wayne Grudem
Daniel Akin
Randy Stinson
K. Erik Thoennes
Jeff Purswell
CBMW, we are on to you.
A big round of applause to those of you who shared the article and alerted others. Thank you for helping to expose the truth!
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Spiritual Sounding Board 
I would not listen to any of those listed with respect to anything, nor to them preaching. What a bunch of yahoos. Thinking they can change our understanding of the love of God by adding to the Gospel their additional requirements to be a Christian in good standing with God. They need to get out from being between Christians and God — they are Usurpers, and nothing less or more.
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How interesting that they don’t want the public to know what they believe and teach! Good work, Julie Anne.
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For those who may have missed this link on the Cry For Justice Blog…quite funny.
http://strangefigures.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/a-letter-to-our-sisters-on-biblical-womanhood-in-heavenly-places/
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I am now an egalitarian, and I can point to why. Why hide what you preach and believe if you’re so sure you are right? Now I know why Gordon Fee is constantly labeled a “liberal”. He’s an egalitarian. The CBMW article linked to by strangefigures…
“Complementarianism and Eschatology: Engaging Gordon Fee’s “New Creation”
Egalitarians, for example, contend that all present categories of identity such as economic status, ethnic background, and gender roles have now been “Christified” under the new covenant so that they no longer have any relevance for defining the functional roles of believing men and women. 1 it is not that such categories no longer exist. Indeed they do and believers cannot escape them entirely. Nevertheless they are now passing away in lieu of a new kingdom that is presently amassing a citizenry of people who are all equal recipients of its inheritance. Hence all of the current networks that define function and status are now rendered ontologically irrelevant for Christians. 2 IN CONTRAST, COMPLEMENTARIANS ARGUE THAT MALE HEADSHIP IS NOT A CUTURALLY ARBITRARY DISTINCTIVE ERADICATED BY THE NEW COVENANT. IT IS NOT SIMPLY AN EXPENDABLE PRACTICE INTRINSIC TO THE PRESENT AGE. RATHER IT IS EMBEDDED IN THE ORDINANCES OF CREATION ITSELF AND MUST BE MODELED BY GOD’S PEOPLE SO THE WORLD CAN BEHOLD THE POWER OF THE AGE TO COME.
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So they can’t even endorse what is on their own website? What a bunch of Pharisees adding burdens to the people’s backs.
Thanks for getting this exposed, Julie Anne!
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🙂 I love the clapping video.
Isn’t it amazing that they give no explanation for removal of the article, nor do they retract anything that was written?. Just . . . poof!! This is becoming standard behavior amongst certain “Christians.”
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Maybe they took it down because it is, as Mark Twain would say, “Chloroform in print.” Gracious..what a boring article!
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It’s still out there in their Spring 2006 Journal. I hope that they recall it and show some accountability, explaining that it was written in error. I’m not holding my breath, though.
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@BTDT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_censorship_of_images
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BTDT, I haven’t seen you around here in awhile. I hope all is well with you. I have missed reading your comments.
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For those interested in the upcoming Phillips articles: I was nearly done with an article last night and then made a followup phone call with my primary source for verification and ended up deleting much of it. Sorry for the delay. I know people are really wanting to see this information, but I want to rely solely on this Source for information, not information I’ve received from second-hand sources, articles, blogs, commenters on blogs.
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Hi Mandy,
That’s so sweet of you to miss me. Especially with everything you are involved in.
I did disappear for a while at the end of Dec/beginning of Jan. It was all I could do to keep up with the kids’ lessons during that season. But, I’m back on board.
I also got word of another abuse cover-up at my former church. (Which was reported to authorities.) I have to wait patiently until I have a media link to share, but there’s a lot going on right now.
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Well, blow me down!!! Such delightful news at the end of the week. Good work, y’all! Loved the clapping too! Waving to BTDT 🙂
And: “Scrub-a-dub dub, @CBMWorg in an internet tub.” Crying out ‘chortle-worthy’! 🙂
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Here’s another cached copy:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101205043603/http://www.cbmw.org/Journal/Vol-11-No-1/Relationships-and-Roles-in-the-New-Creation
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Since Owen Strachan became exec director of CBMW, their website has become a lot more tightly controlled. Lots of stuff that used to be there is now taken down, or you have to purchase it rather than read it for free. And now he seems to be acting like a little emperor who keeps his finger on the scrub button.
Bad choice of Exec Director, CBMW old boys! But you’ve done it now. Wonder if it’s time for Piper and the old guys to scrub Owen? Isn’t he becoming a bit of an embarrassment to the organization?
We know we are getting somewhere when they scrub the evidence.
And hmm, doesn’t the Bible say “Admit to and confess your sins?” Isn’t it a sin to cover up sins? Oops, there I go again, teaching the men. Better get back to my housework.
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LOL Barbara – you better watch it. You might get a reputation like me! 🙂
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Owen Strachan wrote a piece today~an excerpt from near the end:
“That’s what we’re really excited about: connecting excellent exegesis and sound theology to the fiber of life and discipleship. We’ve been promoting this perspective with lots of passion for a good little while now on our website. There are so many challenges to biblical and natural complementarity today. We’re fully locked and loaded to give good answers to them. But what really gets us excited is seeing theology become doxology. Exegesis turned into a narrative. Truth shaping life. That’s what you get a taste of in the pieces by Brittany and Grant. That’s what you get a ton of at CBMW.org.”
The CMBW has been promoting this perspective? (Except for when they remove a post without explanation and one cannot find it on the website…that’s deleting, not promoting, isn’t it?)
They are fully locked and loaded to give us answers to complementarity today? I want to know about marriage in heaven and how I am going to submit to men for eternity. Dang if I can find the post on the CBMW website to give me the answers I want!! I know it was there the other day….what gives, Owen?
Exegesis/narrative/truth/life–that’s what you get a TON of at CBMW.org? I think maybe a ton minus a blog article that has gone…poof. That’s what you get.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thoughtlife/2014/03/the-story-of-biblical-complementarity-scripture-is-good-for-us/
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Complementarian theology produces transformative bursts of joy? Drinking too much Piper koolaide, and this is getting old, Owen.
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Two years ago I read N.T. Wright’s paper on women’s service in the church, dumped complementarianism, and never looked back.
I recommend the same to other women who have a brain.
http://ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Women_Service_Church.htm
N.T. Wright is one of the top New Testament scholars in the world.
CBMW fanboys can keep their wives stupid and backward if they like, but the rest of us will use the gifts God gave us rather then burying them in a hole in the ground. (Have you ever watched the interviews of some of these men and their painfully silly wives?)
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Here’s a comprehensive article by Craig S. Keener on the AG site that deals with most of the theological hot button topics in a concise way. See what you think.
“Was Paul For or Against Women in Ministry?” By Craig S. Keener It is 8 pgs.
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/200102/082_paul.cfm
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Waving to Barb. 🙂 This news is definitely chortle worthy.
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Barb, thank you, thank you, thank you for the link to that article. I primarily identify with the AG church, having been saved in one and having spent many years as a member and Sunday School teacher. I have been considering getting a master’s degree in theology from an AG college and I am so relieved to see that viewpoint expressed.
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Just read most of the CBMW article (it’s too tedious and poorly written to bother reading the whole thing) and what frustrated me the most is that he dismisses the egalitarian viewpoint for extrapolating beyond the biblical texts and then the very first thing he writes about the complementarian viewpoint is that it isn’t explicitly in the biblical texts but can be inferred. So he’s doing exactly what he critiques egalitarians for. Completely hypocritical.
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Thank goodness that there are existing screenshots. I suspect that the Mormon comparison got under their skins, but not enough to change their minds.
At least, not yet.
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Wow, those links from Barb and Anonymous2 have been great for me to read. I have waffled back and forth on the whole “women as preachers” thing. Our church will allow women to speak in church on Sundays. For example, if we women have gone to a women’s retreat or leadership retreat, our pastors (we have 3 co-equal pastors – they call themselves “elders,” but they’re the American definition of pastors) will have an open mic time the following Sunday and we share what we learned or what impacted us the most from the teaching. And in some of our sister churches they have women’s ministries and I know they allow the women to be in charge of those. I don’t think they allow women to be “official” preachers/elders in our church “denomination”. But they’ve certainly allowed us women to share our thoughts in church and our testimonies. And, I’m actually the head of our Sunday School & Nursery, so our church does allow women in “leadership” positions (I seem to have a “gift of administration” – I keep us all organized 😉 and remember when to start planning for summer VBS and the Christmas program and decide curriculum and all that, so the elders trust me to make good decisions about all that). And we have “small groups” that meet in our homes weekly or bi-weekly, and we are certainly allowed to share our thoughts and opinions and discuss with the men in those situations.
Hmmm. For a while I was concerned that our church was more patriarchal and I ws missing it, but having just typed that all out, maybe not so much except the women as preachers thing…
Love the “food for thought” I am getting at this blog, Julie.
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Hi Marsha, I was just over to a conference in Springfield, MO held at the AG Evangel University–which is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year. It was an academic conf. but absorbing the historical roots of the denomination and their aim for good scholarship in so many areas, especially the woman thing in the church, was empowering. If you feel called to study there, then go for it!!
The lady pastor at our church organized an event for women in the area this weekend entitled Free to Lead. Her intro message was excellent. Back to it all day tomorrow. Empowering for all women, especially the younger crowd. It is heartening for women to hear God’s truth about them in their own ears!
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Here is another article from the same journal: Exploring Why We Think The Way We Do About Women In Ministry by George O. Wood. [I happened to get a tour of the AG HQ and got to see George’s office. 🙂 ] He explains how the early church came to consensus on some sticky issues and what we can learn from their experience.
Enjoy!
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/200102/008_exploring.cfm
There are a few more articles on the women thing in this same issue.
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/200102/index.cfm
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@CarmenS:
Maybe the Transformative Bursts of Joy of North Korean population units Dancing with Great Enthusiasm In Praise Of Comrade Dear Leader…
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Maybe it’s a reference to the sex act in their perverted books? Tim Keller is even guilty of it. Some of it reads like the history of a serial murderer who kills prostitutes because of some religious fixation — because when you have sex, you’re supposed to glorify and enjoy the Trinity — I assume because that’s what you’re supposed to think about. {And here I thought it was about the mutual exchange of love, mutual pleasure, and the dance of intimacy in union with my husband.}
I talked with Shirley Taylor about it, and she blurted out that it’s like “spread your legs theology” when you read the writings of these men. It’s sick.
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JA, they surely are adding to the word of God when they post articles saying gender roles will continue in the age to come with Christ’s return. It’s not surprising, since they add to Scripture when they say our present age has distinct gender roles too.
Did you notice that the reasoning in that article was by extrapolation? “This is the way it is now, and that means it;s the way it will be too.”
Nonsense, Jesus clearly told his listeners they had it wrong when it came to men and women and marriage in the kingdom of God. Paul explained there is no male or female with God. Paul said we are all priests, not just the men. Is there a single verse in Revelation that says men will have different roles in the new creation than women? None. So who does CBMW think it is to teach this nonsense?
Cheers.
Tim
P.S. You know my take on it. Living in Christ’s kingdom is not about manhood or womanhood. It’s about Christ.
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Carmen,
You said:
“Now I know why Gordon Fee is constantly labeled a “liberal”. ”
My response:
For the past few years now, I am extremely cautious of anyone claiming to be a “conservative” Christian, knowing exactly what belief system began using that term, aka, the Reformers. I am neither a conservative Christian, nor a liberal Christian. Just label me a Christian, period. And, I do not subscribe to any denomination, either. I used to think of myself as a conservative Christian, but once I learned what that really entailed, I booked (ran away from that stance). But I am not a liberal Christian, either. And get this…since I do not believe in the trinity, I am not even Orthodox.
I guess that I am on the Highway to Hell, huh?
Livin easy, livin free…Season Ticket on a oneway ride…askin nothin, leave me be…LOL!
Ed
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I posted this on the other council post…thought it would be appropriate here, too.
We all, regardless of gender, inherit all. And yes, we are all called “sons of God”.
John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:7
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Even the Angels are known as the “sons of God”
Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
****There is no gender since everyone is a son, both male and female. A female is a son.
Ed
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ACK – spread your legs theology? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
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<blockquote:P.S. You know my take on it. Living in Christ’s kingdom is not about manhood or womanhood. It’s about Christ.
Yes, I do, Tim. And I’m glad, in this case, that you are a dude with the anatomy and all, so that your voice will be heard louder than mine.
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“… a dude with the anatomy and all, so that your voice will be heard louder than mine.”
CBMW sure are hung up on plumbing!
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Tim – – that is a tempting Tweet 😉
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Ha! Feel free, JA!
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Thank you for this and your earlier post on this, Julie Anne. I have written a logical refutation of the CBMW’s arguments showing the inherent contradictions: http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-logical-fallacy-of-equal-but.html
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Thank you, Kristen! I was just going to post it here and see that you already have. I hope people get a chance to read your excellent article.
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I read your article and theirs last night. And this morning, all I can think is: if hierarchy between equals extends into heaven (although what need will we have of it when sin & selfishness are removed and all have access to the throne room and perfect desire to heed the will of God?)… IF we will also have hierarchy in heaven, shouldn’t we think about the fact that last shall be first and first shall be last? Couldn’t we make an equal case from that verse that women might be the heads and men might be learning submission?
Perhaps the many enslaved and abused women of history who have nonetheless worshiped God will be the ones sitting on Jesus’ right and left hand, and us wealthy armchair doctrine buffs will be the ones scrubbing those golden streets. After all, Jesus told us, “whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave.” (Matt 20:26-27)
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Ecumenicalism/Parachurchism seems as problematic from the “right” of the theological spectrum as from the “left”. Are the antics of the WCC somewhat matched by groups such as CBMW?
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Elizabeth, loved your insightful hypothetical idea about the last becoming first. After all, God’s justice has the promise of righting every wrong that has happened on earth and dealing with it himself. Yes, the last could be first–in heaven. 🙂 Brilliant insight!
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To clarify: What is hypothetical is not that the ‘last will be first and the first shall be last’–which is a biblical truth, but the concept of a potential reversal: women/ females ‘over’ men/males in heaven–based on the context of their obnoxious heresy.
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Hey all,
Getting really close to posting the new Phillips article. Just need one more check by sources after minor revisions were done.
I’m out for a couple hours at a concert and hopefully will be able to post it tonight.
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Elizabeth, read those verses yesterday morning, and then as I am prepping for our week for our homeschool I see that this week we are memorizing Matthew 20:26b-27. Had to just laugh out loud at how God is showing me all these great verses this week and then doubling down on them.
Then, this morning in church a student from Kansas State (we had students from Kansas State come in this weekend to help us with some neighborhood outreach and they lead the singing and preaching this morning) talk on Colossians 2:6-15. I loved these verses (Colossians 2:6-8): 6 Therefore, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and firm in your faith just as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. 8 Be careful not to allow anyone to captivate you through an empty, deceitful philosophy that is according to human traditions and the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Especially vs 8… seems to me we have some human traditions going on in this hierarchical view of marriage. And then, vs 6 is about living our lives IN HIM! Not in our husbands, but IN HIM! Glorious!
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According to many Biblical Scholars, the Genesis account of creation also tell s us about the importance of Created beings. In this thinking, since mankind was created last-after other creatures-then man is seen as God’s important and crowning glory for creation.
My response to this is that Genesis also records that Eve was created after Adam….therefore women are superior to men. The creation order dictates such a conclusion.
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Love it, christianagnostic.
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As I used to say: God saved the best for last! 🙂
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I’ve recently been pottering around a thread on Linkedin started by Barb on the subject of women as pastors. 1300 comments(-ish) to date!
On it, I wrote a hypothetical letter by an imaginary 21 year old to a complementarian about his appointment as a newly qualified teacher in a school which had a christian, single woman as Head. Needless to say there was no serious engagement with the contents or intelligible response to my request for advice.
The gentleman to whom I wrote believes that, in the church (whatever that means) all men are the spiritual head of all women!
I reproduce it here for interest / relevance to the topic:
Dear Cal
I am writing to you because I need your advice.
As you know, I have just begun work as a teacher in a local school with a very high reputation. The Head, an outstanding woman, has held that post for the last 6 years and does so admirably. Inspection reports rate the school as outstanding.
She is a Christian and brings her christian principles to everything she does. Her pastoral care of both the pupils and staff has created a Godly atmosphere in the school which would be the envy of any Head. It is a delight to work there.
Being new to the job, I have sought her advice often. She leads me in the practicalities of the job, exhorts me to trust God as my source of strength and wisdom, prays for me, directs me and oversees this large part of my life. In fact, being new to the faith as well, I find her support and guidance in matters of the Kingdom invaluable.
It is indeed through this lady, that I have come to the faith in the first place.
I have begun to attend the church of which she is a part.
The confusion I face is that some who seem to be of good standing in this church and much more experienced than myself are teaching me that because she is a woman, I am her spiritual head.
Please tell me in what way this headship of mine should be practised.
Should she be submitting to my advice? My instruction? In my present state that would seem rather nonsensical.
What teachings is she disallowed from sharing with me?
Should I now cease to receive pastoral advice and support from her at school?
Yours
Confused Christian.
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Oops, premature adulation. http://bit.ly/1r0GnVY
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HA, Eric – – I was working on an article on this just as you posted this! Thanks!
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I just got word of this:
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It’s still available to read
http://cbmw.org/uncategorized/relationships-and-roles-in-the-new-creation/
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