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We can learn a lot about the spiritual health of a church and how they function by reading their church governance bylaws and doctrinal statements of faith.
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There were many people, after my lawsuit became very public, who went to my former church’s website to look at the doctrinal statements to see what kind of church it was, how the church functioned, what kind of authority structure it had. I left that stuff up to my husband – that was his thang.
Church doctrine didn’t interest me. I visited a church and went by the “feel.” I looked at relationships. I looked at the mix of older people and young people. I looked at how balanced things seemed to feel. I know, that’s bad, but I typically have a good sense about things and I was actually right in this case – I had that “yucky sense” even on the first Sunday, but it took two years before we eventually left. That’s a whole nuther story.
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What do church doctrinal statements tell us?
What can we learn from them?
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Now I understand why it is so important to look at these statements. We get a lot of visitors to this site and it’s important to discuss red flags so that others can learn and not get burned in a spiritually abusive church.
I have copied two snippets from Beaverton Grace Bible Church’s doctrinal statement. What do you see?
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V. We Believe In Spiritual Authority.
God Himself has established order in every area of our lives, and the church is no exception. God in Scripture has clearly given us the structure of authority for the church. Christ is the head of the church and He mediates His rule through the shepherding of godly elders (pastors) (5). These elders (pastors), having a high view of God and Scripture, being devoted to the preaching, teaching and practicing of sound doctrine, and being examples of personal holiness before the congregation, are responsible to lead the church. The Bible teaches that the congregation is accountable to the elders (pastors) and that the elders (pastors) are accountable to God. Therefore, all decision-making authority is vested in the elders (pastors), who shepherd the church (6).
This was in a different section of the document. Do you see the conflict?
K. The Mediator
We teach that Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God is the only divinely appointed mediator between God and man (1). Having taken upon Himself human nature, yet without sin (2), He perfectly fulfilled the Law, suffered and died upon the cross for the salvation of sinners (3). He was buried, and rose again on the third day, and ascended to His Father, at whose hand He ever lives to make intercession for His people (4).
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Feel free to send me church doctrinal statements or covenants so we can learn together. ~ja
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Oh where to start? Let me simplify it: this ministry now frames it this way; the institutional church is part and parcel with Caste and collectivism, and home fellowships are about individualism and the priesthood of believers. Leadership is NOT authority, and unity is based on fellowship in the truth.
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Eeek! Lots of power in the hands of a few men. Not just men (as it states in the doctrine) but GODLY ELDERS. Whoa! The use of the word ‘shepherd’ also suggests that’s what the sheep need. I’m getting the ‘no’ feeling. .
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Of course. If Jesus is the only mediator between God and man, then their idea of “the congregation is accountable to the elders (pastors) and that the elders (pastors) are accountable to God” is patently false. The two are irreconcilable contradictions.
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Greg – that was the glaring one that I saw.
If they say,
how can you have this:
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Right, obviously, the elders are the true mediators. This is exactly what Calvin believed. Sin in the Christian life separates us from grace, and regrace must be sought out in the institutional church with the pastors as the mediators. The elders have authority to bound and loose forgiveness on earth. THAT IS CALVINISM PERIOD and it should be rejected out of hand and with prejudice.
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Good one!
Who is/are the mediator(s) between God and a member of the congregation?
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Paul, that smacks of Catholicism.
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This is what it boils down to: Chucky et al believe they have the authority to condemn you to hell. If you think that is an exaggeration, you are dead wrong.
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Chuck already has, so has his BFF, Tony Miano, and I could name more, but I might get in trouble.
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JA,
The Reformers never left Catholicism–that’s just plain historical fact.
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I don’t know if they are as “holy” as Catholic priests with their vow of celibacy and all.
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So, has anyone experienced this kind of authority in your church? What does it look like? How would it affect the normal church attender?
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Paul, where does Calvin say that the elders have this authority? Someone from my former congregation is mad at me, he kept insisting that I am still a Calvinist, and I told him in no uncertain terms that I am NOT one. If I see him again, I want to challenge him to look into Calvin’s life and beliefs, and show him the dark side.
I am going to dig out my doctrinal statements from my former and current church. Bells go off on these kinds of statements.
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This is identical to the Roman Catholic “priests as mediators”. About 2 years ago I heard on Christian Radio, a pastor say this during his teaching: “The pastor is the mediator between the people and God.” I started yelling at my radio when he said that.
(And this was not a Reformed Calvinist Church.) These Protestant and Independent Baptist pastors and Churches want all the hierarchy power over their people, that the RCC has over theirs.
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Welcome to SSB, Loretta. Glad to have you join us!
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I have experienced some extreme teachings on authority in my 33 years as a Christian via influences of Bill Gothard and the shepherding movement. But I don’t recall anything this extreme.
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Thank you. : ) Also, not sure if this is on or off topic… but when i saw this on your article: “We Believe In Spiritual Authority.” I immediately thought of Tony Miano’s talk he gave at Herald Society conference (it is on sermonaudio.com) on the topic of his book. He basically says that women should not have spiritual authority. He said we have no right to have authority at all. It is like he cut out more than half of the disciples of Jesus (women), basically removing us from the priesthood of believers, removing us from participation in Christ’s “all authority has been given to Me, and I am with you until the end..”, essentially relegating us to a lower status of saint, one without any spiritual authority, as if we are without Christ, as if we are cut off from Christ. So when i saw that “We believe in spiritual authority”, i realized, that’s where TM gets his idea of this, since he goes to this Church or is closely associated with it.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=929132329527
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Loretta,
I might have to check out that sermon audio. I have 3-hours worth of driving tomorrow, so I might just download it. (Although I can’t guarantee that it won’t cause road rage.)
Miano does not go to O’Neal’s church. He lives in CA. I don’t think Miano could handle someone “over” him like that. Really, no one should have a pastor “over” them like that. But here’s an interesting tweet showing the devotion he has towards Chuck O’Neal, the suing pastor, the pastor who lost his minister’s license and remains in church discipline, unrepentant:
https://twitter.com/TonyMiano/status/371164660382171136
Keep in mind, Chuck O’Neal’s church is supporting Miano as a missionary.
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“being examples of personal holiness” yeah, right…
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“Feel free to send me church doctrinal statements or covenants so we can learn together. ~ja”
I’ll send you my former cults covenant — all 138 pages of it. 🙂
IMO, this is a reincarnation of the Shepherding Movement that my former church practiced. It was damaging back in it’s heyday, and it will be just as damaging today.
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2009/04/14/the-shepherding-movement-reformed-revamped-reee-diculous%C2%A0-part-two-%C2%A0/
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wallflower – – isn’t that something? Yea, holiness is showing up at former members’ homes with recording devices. Holiness is passing out slander blogger cards while you go share the gospel and evangelize. @@ (those are rolling eyeballs right there).
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BTDT – – I don’t know about 138 pages – ha! You can c&p your favorite parts.
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Velvet Voice,
“Secondly, this passage shows that the gratuitous pardon of sins is given us not only once, but that it is a benefit perpetually residing in the Church, and daily offered to the faithful. For the Apostle here addresses the faithful; as doubtless no man has ever been, nor ever will be, who can otherwise please God, since all are guilty before him; for however strong a desire there may be in us of acting rightly, we always go haltingly to God. Yet what is half done obtains no approval with God. In the meantime, by new sins we continually separate ourselves, as far as we can, from the grace of God. Thus it is, that all the saints have need of the daily forgiveness of sins; for this alone keeps us in the family of God ” (John Calvin: Commentaries on the Catholic Epistles; The Calvin Translation Society 1855. Editor: John Owen, p. 165 ¶4).
“On the other hand, the Lord has called his people to eternal salvation, and therefore they ought to consider that pardon for their sins is always ready. Hence let us surely hold that if we are admitted and ingrafted into the body of the Church, the forgiveness of sins has been bestowed, and is daily bestowed on us, in divine liberality, through the intervention of Christ’s merits, and the sanctification of the Spirit.
22. To impart this blessing to us, the keys have been given to the Church (Mt. 16:19; 18:18). For when Christ gave the command to the apostles, and conferred the power of forgiving sins, he not merely intended that they should loose the sins of those who should be converted from impiety to the faith of Christ; but, moreover, that they should perpetually perform this office among believers. This Paul teaches, when he says that the embassy of reconciliation has been committed to the ministers of the Church, that they may ever and anon in the name of Christ exhort the people to be reconciled to God (2 Cor. 5:20). Therefore, in the communion of saints our sins are constantly forgiven by the ministry of the Church, when presbyters or bishops, to whom the office has been committed, confirm pious consciences, in the hope of pardon and forgiveness by the promises of the gospel, and that as well in public as in private, as the case requires. For there are many who, from their infirmity, stand in need of special pacification, and Paul declares that he testified of the grace of Christ not only in the public assembly, but from house to house, reminding each individually of the doctrine of salvation (Acts 20:20, 21). Three things are here to be observed. First, Whatever be the holiness which the children of God possess, it is always under the condition, that so long as they dwell in a mortal body, they cannot stand before God without forgiveness of sins. Secondly, This benefit is so peculiar to the Church, that we cannot enjoy it unless we continue in the communion of the Church. Thirdly, It is dispensed to us by the ministers and pastors of the Church, either in the preaching of the Gospel or the administration of the Sacraments, and herein is especially manifested the power of the keys, which the Lord has bestowed on the company of the faithful. Accordingly, let each of us consider it to be his duty to seek forgiveness of sins only where the Lord has placed it. Of the public reconciliation which relates to discipline, we shall speak at the proper place” (CI 4.1.22).
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SHEESH!! Do we really need a sermon?? I think NOT. . . just sayin’. ..
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Paul,
Notice in the Institutes (and with Puritan writings) they always refer to the “church”. This is no different than appealing directly to the elders or “ministers” who have what they think of as “spiritual authority” over others. Church and minister are basically the same thing.
Thanks for providing the resource.
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Other than Point V overruling Point K?
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Carmen: There are those in the Christianese Blogosphere who can only think and speak and write as Sermons. They post these sermons as blog comments all the time.
The original Internet Monk used to say “If you’re going to write an entire blog posting essay instead of a comment, GET YOUR OWN BLOG.”
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No, Loretta, they want MORE hierarchy power over their people than the RCC has ever had. Since I started checking & commenting on Spiritual Abuse blogs, I have encountered accounts of Protestant and Independent Baptist pastors who have exceeded the corruption and control-freaking of any Pope or Bishop in recorded church history. (And I’m counting the Borgia Popes.) The only beef they have with the RCC is that THEY’re not the One on the throne pronouncing Ex Cathedra and unleashing the Inquisition. And their Ex Cathedra knows NO limits.
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Guys, FYI Paul was not posting a sermon. He was providing the information Velvetvoice asked for from Calvin’s Institutes. It is not something you can link to unless you want to read pages and pages to get to the relevant information.
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Carmen –
That wasn’t Paul preaching. They are quotes from John Calvin showing what many elders and pastors believe is their God given right — to have authority over their congregations.
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That’s right, Lydia. Paul was not posting a sermon, just an excerpt from Calvin Institutes.
I think this is the first time I’ve had something from Calvin’s Institutes on my blog.
Interesting how much verbiage is in those institutes when compared to the Bible. There’s a whole lot of man’s interpretation in there. I don’t care if your name is John Calvin or John Arminian, I don’t get the devotion to any man who is interpreting God’s word when we as Christians are all part of the priesthood of believers with equal access to God and His Holy Spirit. Why does John Calvin or John Arminian get more clout or credibility than any of us?
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Ya Carmen, I read, and read, and read, and read, and read, while begging with tears that these dead idiots would finally make a point about what they are saying. When they do, 200 freaking pages later, I document it. Nevertheless, the above clearly exposes Calvin for the false teacher that he was. There is no excuse whatsoever for any “Christian” to endorse Calvin on any wise. When I show pastors quotes like the ones above, it never fails, they always turn the book over to make sure that it is really the Calvin Institutes.How adorable.
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Where in the world does the Bible condone pastor worship? It is quite an overreach of power that only belongs to Christ alone. Listened to Ken Larson (he is a radio personality in SC) he was talking to the reporter who blew the whistle on Furticks home situation. The people who supported Furtick were calling in condemning Larson and the reporter for “touching God’s anointed”- amazing that here these people are giving there livelihoods to a man, yes, a man to build his house AND…. a headquarters for Furtick’s quote “ministry”. Plus, on top of that signing contracts that bind them to secrecy and being slaves to the church itself.
Anyone have a whip on hand?
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Look at all the churches (everywhere you point a stick) that have $500, 000 budgets. How? Why? Because obviously, people think they are saved by being a member of a church and being obedient to the leaders. People are willing to pay big bucks for that. Where do they get that mentality? From the Reformed family tradition. Why do people give churches and leaders a pass on abuses of the worst kind? Where else are they going to get their salvation? It’s a nasty bus, but that bus be going to heaven. Get off, and it will run you over on the way. Isn’t that what Driscoll said specifically?
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It’s the elected form of ‘there is no salvation outside the church (Church)’ and man lifting himself to an unbiblical position over the people of God.
If you are not in good standing with them ‘elders’ you are not in good standing with the church, if you are not in good standing with the church, you are not in good standing with God.
Seems this happens more times than not among the Reformed, think of Calvin’s Geneva, authoritarianism is the logical conclusion to that theology.
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Ahhhh. .. .I see now – went back in the comments. . .can you tell I would NEVER be a fan of Calvin’s??? Or anyone who WAS a fan of Calvin’s?? ha, ha. . but then again, in our little church we have a female Clerk of Session and a female (ordained) minister – Tony & company would run for the hills if they ever chanced upon a service here. . .
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Well, North Carolina IS one of the Former Confederate States, and Furtick’s “cottage” would makeTHE Big House for the Furtick Plantation…
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Isn’t that what the Reformers accused the Catholic Church of doing? Using the Keys to Heaven (and implied power to save or damn on your say-so) to force obedience (and profitable Indulgences)?
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“Ya Carmen, I read, and read, and read, and read, and read, while begging with tears that these dead idiots would finally make a point about what they are saying. When they do, 200 freaking pages later, I document it.”
Exactly! I slogged through it a few years back. Note: Calvin was trained as a lawyer.
To paraphrase John Wayne: The only way he could say more would be to write less.
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“The people who supported Furtick were calling in condemning Larson and the reporter for “touching God’s anointed”- ”
So Furtick is King Saul? Sounds about right. :o)
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Well Lydia there it is- the Lawyers! Look at our government- Lawyers! Look at the pastor’s best friends or church members- Lawyers!
Not to lump all lawyers into this huge mess, but these guys KNOW how to get around the system, while those who don’t are left out in the cold. Our country right now is being run all over the place by lawyers who can get away with it.
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Hi all, I’ve been following your stories and blogs for the past 2 weeks, ever since I first stumbled upon them while googling news reports and blogs about abuse in churches. I don’t have quite the experience you all seem to have had with spiritual abuse, with the exception of sexual abuse from a deacon on church that my pastor swept under the rug and ignored. I have read your entire previous blog, Julie Anne, and have then started reading from the beginning of this one (I’m up to Feb. 28). But I just wanted you to know that I am here and fully support you all. Julie Anne, this is Mary, who sent you a couple of emails and private messages on facebook. May God richly bless your mission.
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trust4himonly,
You say, “Look at the pastor’s best friends or church members- Lawyers!”
Now that you mention it, I think you’re on to something. Still, as a lawyer myself, I can testify from personal experience that it only lasts until the lawyer starts comparing what the preacher preaches with what Scripture actually says.
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Hey Mary,
Welcome to the blog and thanks for contacting me. Boy, you’ve done a lot of reading!
I appreciate your support and look forward to getting to know you better.
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Let me know if there’s anything I can do in support. Abuse, in all its forms, must stop!
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Greetings Mary! One thing to do in support is to be informed, to be engaged, and to invite others to learn and see what you and a multitude of others do! Good for you, doing your ‘homework’ and reading all those posts and comments. Keep at it! You will be another resource person. 🙂 Every person counts!
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Count me in, Barb. Trust me, I am engaged and informed about abuse. I’m a child advocate, stemming from my own lifetime of abuse in various forms. And I’m very vocal.
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Gary, do not want to knock the good ones! 🙂
In fact we need the good ones to tell us “What the heck is in these contracts!”
Maybe, that would be a great ministry for some honest lawyers- to help those who
have no clue of the legal system.
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trust4himonly,
Thank you for not wanting to knock the good ones. I had noticed, and appreciated, that in your first comment that you were careful “Not to lump all lawyers into this huge mess.”
As to the question of “What the heck is in these contracts,” it seems to me that, while the specifics will vary from one institution to another, even non-lawyers should be able to detect most of the dangers inherent in the typical church’s constitution and bylaws, doctrinal statement, covenant, etc. All you have to remember is that there is almost certainly an agenda. It is often, maybe usually, all about domination (yes, domination), power and control. All a person has to do is go through and highlight everything the governing documents that give authority to leadership (often a single person, usually a man). Then go through and highlight everything that imposes obligations on mere congregants.
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“I don’t pay a lawyer to tell me what I want to do is illegal. I PAY A LAWYER TO TELL ME HOW TO GET AWAY WITH WHAT I WANT TO DO.” — attr to J.P.Morgan
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Direct quote from my late father: “Only a lawyer can talk for two hours and say absolutely nothing.”
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Some of us help poor people, debtors, the abused (children and women, especially), etc. I also represent people who owe child support and have no resources to pay and are at risk of jail, for which I am paid by the county due to a Supreme Court ruling. I work hard, bill for less than half the time I spend on most cases, and with the child support non-payers, work to get them on a job or, if appropriate, on disability, so that the other parent who has the kids, will receive money to help feed, clothe, house, educate, etc., the children. I tell pastors that I pre-tithe by helping the poor and forgoing the income I could otherwise make.
I net less from 45-50 hours a week as an attorney with an overhanging $50K law school debt, than does a starting teacher in this area.
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Hey there Julie Anne,
I never read the doctrinal statements nor did I ever become a ‘member’. My husband was invited to got to Grace Brethren by Don Nodurft, I believe he was an elder at the time. We learned, loved and grew in the Lord the first eight years while there. Then O’Neal came in and things changed. We left for about 2 years, came back but didn’t realize the subtle changes. Dale Weaver was the only elder who has been constant in the 16 years we attended. Around 2008 property was sold and the church name was changed to Beaverton Grace Bible church. Not so subtle change~youth group was dismantled, quizzing stopped, ladies bible study night discontinued, and on and on and on….why did we stay? God had another plan for us. Things were revealed and the time finally came for us to leave. Chuck portrays we left because a former employee was fired, didn’t happen this way! We left before the employee was fired, we also had dinner telling Chuck and Tonya exactly why we were leaving. My husband did not feel he was being fed the Word, or the gospel. Chuck would NOT take our reasons, blamed the soon to be fired employee for us leaving.
I am still healing from the abusive leadership from BGBC, will not join in membership at another church probably ever. I don’t read ANYWHERE in Scripture that believers have to be a ‘member’ of any church. Man made rules is not biblical.
Thank you for the information (and abuses) found in Calvinism. Patriarchal leadership….both were paramount in BGBC. Crimes committed were swept under the rug and blindly following a man were among many of the abuses I saw there. I wonder sometimes why I didn’t say something to the leadership, but oh yeah, I DID! They ignored anything I brought to them. His phoney website shows some of my letters….not all of them. Ones I wrote to him and the elders questioning some things I saw, were not posted on his phoney site, the 2 elders did not respond to my emails…just forwarded them to Chuck.
Well, enough from me today,
Hope all is well with you and yours. May God continue to bless you in this much needed ministry,
Love Meaghan
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Hey sweet lady, Meaghan!!
I love that you have the platform and can straighten the record publicly. I never knew why Chuck lumped us all together saying we left for the same reason. That simply is not true. Don’s firing was only one of many reasons why we left. Didn’t you leave at least a couple of months before Don was fired?
Oh, and for those who are wondering about quizzing – – we weren’t there for that, but the kids used to participate in a Bible memorization program and they’d go on quizzing competitions. It was a highlight for many youth that I talked with.
I didn’t know that you used to have a ladies bible study night. Wow. I just knew they were not allowed and thought that was the strangest thing. That’s probably because ladies would be using their brains and spiritual understanding and he wouldn’t want ladies understanding more of the Bible than men.
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“I don’t pay a lawyer to tell me what I want to do is illegal. I PAY A LAWYER TO TELL ME HOW TO GET AWAY WITH WHAT I WANT TO DO.” — attr to J.P.Morgan
Wow HUG, that is an accurate portrayal of many of what I see in Washington.
An Attorney, it is wonderful that you are using the talents and gifts God has given you to be of good and kindness. We so need good lawyers today. God Bless. 🙂
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Hi Meaghan, Thanks for setting the record straight. It was good to hear from you the exact sequence of events. That is curious. Things were certainly spun to a different ‘sequence for convenience’ for sure. That was very helpful. 🙂
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After reading paulspassingthoughts’ comment at 10/23 @ 11:21AM, I thought I’d go ahead and paste this here. I’ve been trying to sift out the relevant parts of my former cult’s covenant regarding submission to authority, tithing, loss of salvation, etc. I think you’ll notice the same red flags that Paul is speaking of regarding submission to authority and tithing being tied into one’s salvation. (My apologies in advance to Carmen if this gets a little verbose.)
“I commit to always take the anointed Word of God that comes to this fellowship as the standard by which I test my submission and obedience, including those times when I may feel that I must, in a spirit of submission, resist inordinate worldly authorities or laws that would demand my disobedience to God by making preeminent my obedience to men (Acts 5:29; Dan. 3:16-18).”
“I commit to keep my heart in its present place of eager, God-given agreement to walk in the guidelines of this church, the church of which I desire to be part. I know this means that I am committing to walk in the narrow way that leads to life (Matt. 7:13-14). I therefore commit to love, trust and obey the noncoercive authority sent to me from God through this church.”
“I confess my conviction and clear understanding that, without a doubt, the Bible mandates that one-tenth of all the profitable bounty that comes to me belongs to the Lord and is given by God into the charge of those whom He has designated as ministers in His temple (Gen. 14:18-20; Lev. 27:30-32; Mal. 3:8-11; Matt. 23:23; Heb. 7:1-5, 8; 1 Cor. 9:11, 13-14, ESV; Rom. 15:16, ESV). I further confess my understanding as to why this would be a point of fellowship. This tithe is not something I can take pride in giving, as if it were a free-will offering: it is what I owe God; and so if I withhold it, according to Scripture, I rob God (Mal. 3:8-11).”
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What!!? Walking in the guidelines of a man-made organization is the standard that determines whether one is entering by the narrow gate? One’s eternal destination is dependent upon following a pack of wolves who attempt to steal that which belongs only to Him to Whom all authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given?
What!!!? These robbers and thieves would impose the Old Testament tithe, as a legalistic obligation, on our Lord’s blood bought children? And then, to compound the fraud, they would pervert the Old Testament tithe and apply it to “all the profitable bounty?” No, I’m sorry, the tithe, when it was in force, applied only to what came from the ground, meaning crops and livestock.
Tell you what, I would gladly give these vipers a tenth of what comes from the ground I own, including grass clippings, black widow spiders, centipedes and all. But I’ll only give it to them in kind, just like in the Old Testament. I’ll take special pleasure in shipping them the occasional real, live wolf spider. They’ll have to pay the shipping collect on delivery though.
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I know, Gary W. And I actually signed it. I can’t believe I signed it. I’m glad Julie Anne is posting about this. Hopefully others will learn to be more discerning.
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