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Just how close is the homeschool fundamental version of Patriarchy to Islam?
I think it’s pretty darn close. Check this out.
Remember this from Christian Homeschool Leader and Pastor Kevin Swanson?
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Kevin Swanson – Little Tiny Fetuses Embedded in the Womb
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I’m beginning to get some evidence from certain doctors and certain scientists that have done research on women’s wombs after they’ve gone through the surgery, and they’ve compared the wombs of women who were on the birth control pill to those who were not on the birth control pill. And they have found that with women who are on the birth control pill, there are these little tiny fetuses, these little babies, that are embedded into the womb. They’re just like dead babies. They’re on the inside of the womb. And these wombs of women who have been on the birth control pill effectively have become graveyards for lots and lots of little babies.
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Doesn’t it kind of sound like this?
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Driving affects ovaries and pelvis, Saudi sheikh warns women
Saudi women seeking to challenge a de facto ban on driving should realize that this could affect their ovaries and pelvises, Sheikh Saleh bin Saad al-Luhaydan, a judicial and psychological consultant to the Gulf Psychological Association, told Saudi news website sabq.org.
Driving “could have a reverse physiological impact. Physiological science and functional medicine studied this side [and found] that it automatically affects ovaries and rolls up the pelvis. This is why we find for women who continuously drive cars their children are born with clinical disorders of varying degrees,” Sheikh al-Luhaydan said.
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Of course Twitter is having fun with this:
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If I do not respond quickly to comments between the hours of 8AM and 12PM, it is because I am out driving, rolling up my pelvis. Please pray.
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Related articles:
- Kevin Swanson Spews Nonsense from His Mouth to Further His Birth Control Agenda
- Kevin Swanson Fails to Provide Sources for Ignorant, Unsettling Statement
- Kevin Swanson Issues Response to Dead Embedded Babies Comment
- My Response to Kevin Swanson’s Non-Response about Embedded Dead Babies and Damage Control
photo credit: “Caveman Chuck” Coker via photopin cc
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Funny – I thought the same thing yesterday when I read the story. The similarities between the fundamentalist groups are increasing daily. I do have a question for the sheikh. If driving can affect a woman’s internal organs, I wonder what 8 hours of flying does to her? I guess I’ll have to find out the hard way tomorrow as I fly out to the West Coast. 🙂
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or Mandy what about sitting in a chair……is that not equivalent to sitting in a car seat? or what about squatting down to pray?
all this bending of the knees, sitting, and birth control must be taxing….. like we can’t, as women, figure these things out ourselves, sheesh…..
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Some men’s will to power goes beyond the desire to dominate merely their own wives and families. They desire to impose their wills on all who are within their reach. Kevin Swanson is part of a movement in which the leaders have succeeded in pushing their views and behavioral expectations on their followers, largely by playing on the fears of parents who are legitimately motivated to do well by their children by educating them at home.
However, Swanson and his ilk are not satisfied to control merely the followers they have succeeded in duping. They desire to control all of society and culture. In previous eras this could have been attempted by main force. The Genevese reformers dominated large swaths of Protestantism by burning their opponents, both religious and secular, at the stake. Today, any such domination must be attained by political means.
This means Swanson and his co-conspirators need numbers, as in they need a critical mass of voters. Recognizing that sufficient numbers are not likely to be won by persuasion, they turn to biological multiplication, of which birth control is the enemy. Therefore, every argument in opposition to the practice of birth control must be marshaled. The value of a given argument is to be tested only by it’s effectiveness to manipulate the desired result—the actual truth of the matter be damned.
The irony is that thousands of “manly” men, having first been persuaded to objectify women in the name of patriarchy, have now been persuaded to offer up their own wives’ wombs on the alter of Kevin Swanson’s ultimately totalitarian agenda. Yes, their wive’s sexuality and reproductive functioning have been dedicated to the fulfillment Kevin Swanson’s desires.
So how does Swanson differ from the Sheik? Well, the typical sheik is not constrained by the necessity of pursuing their ends by political means. They already have the power for which Swanson can only lust. In the world of politics, Swanson is a mere wannabe.
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Oh dear. I have been trying to convince folks for several years now that YRR/Fundamentalism are edging very close to Muslim thinking processes. It tends to show up easier when gender roles are being discussed.
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What I don’t get is if their ultimate goal is having lots of babies – obviously something is going on their with their obsession of protecting female’s reproductive organs – so, why aren’t they taking such “precautionary” measures for their own reproductive organs?
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Hmm – – thinking out loud here – maybe a guy would have issues with another guy telling him how to “handle” his goods/manhood. Go figure.
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Yeh JA, if we want to get real technical—- what about those testicles? They are physically out there compared to a womans ovaries! what about protecting the manhood? huh?
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Google “Dominionism” or “Dominion theology” and see what you get. The quotes from some of these people are downright scary.
If we did not live in an open society in the west there would be human bonfires here as well. Christians hanging from steeples. Heads rolling in the streets.
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What I don’t get is if their ultimate goal is having lots of babies – obviously something is going on their with their obsession of protecting female’s reproductive organs – so, why aren’t they taking such “precautionary” measures for their own reproductive organs?”
Because the ultimate goal is NOT having lots of babies. There are always more girls/women than they can manage to marry off. (Many are home serving their fathers until they can find a suitable spouse. I swear, they would practice polygamy if they could get by with it here)
The goal is control. The Muslims cannot have uppity women driving around cos that would make them feel unmanly. The fundies also have challenges with uppity women. The whole thing is about making insecure men feel superior. Period. In the case of Islam, male insecurity is cultural. I have been doing work with Muslim immigrants and I cannot believe what I am seeing. Some of it is very subtle as they are trying to fit in here but want to keep their girls/women down at the same time. Women really are considered second class….barely human.
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Every time I see Kevin “Dead Embryos Lining the Womb” Swanson, I can’t help thinking the guy looks like a High School Dork. I wonder if he was a high school Omega Male who found a way to become The Alpha Male and now throws his weight around in payback mode.
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Anonymous, so true. The foundational beliefs of the key players in the subculture of the homeschool movement are into Reconstructionism and/or Dominionism. I really need to research the difference because I am not completely clear, but the common thought is producing a lot of Christian babies, taking over the society, utilizing Old Testament laws and such. I don’t know where these folks are hiding their New Testaments, but OT rhetoric spewed from their mouths is frightening.
If you Google: Swanson and homosexual, it’s shocking the things that man says.
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Outbreed the Heathen. Outbreed the Infidel. Outbreed the Other.
Some factions of Extreme Islam are also into this: “We conquer the lands of the Franks! Our wombs shall be our weapons!”
So was Ceaucescu of Romania, who launched his own Lebensborn program.
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Well Julie Anne, care to venture which theology dominionism and Reconstructionism spring from?
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anonymous asked: “Well Julie Anne, care to venture which theology dominionism and Reconstructionism spring from?”
JA response: Calvinism
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WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!
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So when does the “the similarities between Calvinism and Islam” post come out? 🙂
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“So when does the “the similarities between Calvinism and Islam” post come out? ”
I would need a week to mentally prepare for the fallout.
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“I would need a week to mentally prepare for the fallout.”
You might also need a well fortified bunker. Seriously.
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Julie Anne, your courage never ceases to amaze me. You continue to not just be a voice for the wounded but a warrior on their behalves. Now on to the good part – I won’t be able to comment for the next couple of weeks as I am only taking my tablet with me when I travel. I have more “important” things to do like relaxing on the beach and exploring some mountains with a special someone (yes, I am no longer single. ’nuff said.). 🙂
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Mandy said: “I have more “important” things to do like relaxing on the beach and exploring some mountains with a special someone (yes, I am no longer single. ’nuff said.). :)”
WOOOOO-Freakin’-HOOOOOOOO, Mandy!!! Wow, that was an unexpected surprise to read and darn, now I’m all teary-eyed and I just put mascara on for choir. Lol
I am so happy for you. A big congratulations and have a wonderful time with your new husband. Wow. How awesome is this news!!
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not married yet. we are talking about it – i really need to clear up some health issues first while i have decent insurance. and i tend to move really slowly – he’s been patient. 🙂 i am actually going to visit my aunt and then my special someone.
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Oh, well, thanks for that clarification. Good to take things slowly and carefully. That makes a lot of sense. I was thinking as I was driving home, “wait, did she say “married?” LOL. oopsy. Enjoy your time away with your aunt and your special someone 🙂
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You can either stand up for what you believe, or you can try make yourself accept that what you find detestable is ok. Internal vs. external peace. Lie to make someone else happy and comfortable, or be truthful with yourself and others. Simple choices, not an easy decision.
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“WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER”
I have NEVER heard that before. I like it.
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Fred Phelps territory?
“GOD HATH SAID! GOD HATH SAID! GOD HATH SAID!”?
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Both Calvin and Mohammed were heavily into Predestination and God’s Omnipotent Will, making that Omnipotent Will THE main attribute of God. This resolves the Paradox of Evil by putting God beyond Good and Evil; God can Will Evil, and who are we to call it Evil? Eh, Kismet.
I would expect both Calvinism and Islam to show the side effects and corollaries of a strong Predestination belief, and the Extreme forms of both to show the effects of an Extreme Predestination belief — passivity, fatalism, no check on ambition and “Will to Power”, and “God Willed It” as a not-my-fault excuse machine. A former writing contact in Louisville observed all these symptoms associated with Extreme Islam when attending a church with an Extreme Predestination belief.
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As in “end up playing Parcheesi in a safe house with Salman Rushdie for the rest of your life”?
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P.S. You do know the word “Sheikh” means something similar to “Elder”?
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“As in “end up playing Parcheesi in a safe house with Salman Rushdie for the rest of your life”?”
Except that Rushdie has so far offended but one of the great strongholds of fundamentalist fervor. In comparison to s/he who would pit Geneva against Mecca, thereby sullying that for which each stands, Rushdie is sitting pretty.
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The Dodge Emblem looks like a Ram to me.
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Mark said: “The Dodge Emblem looks like a Ram to me.”
Mark, do you own a Dodge Ram? LOL
It was funny, I was looking up “ovaries” and that is what came up in the photo selection. I about laughed myself silly.
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Been somewhat off the grid on vacation. Beach & caves. I have a little boogie boarder, swimmer, AKA fish who’s not afraid of the “whitecaps”, “little whitecaps” & “rockers”. Yeah, we named the waves. We’re silly like that. 🙂
Glad to be back. I don’t think I’ve heard of Kevin Swanson. Do I get a failing grade as a Christian homeschool Mom? Lol
On a serious note, I have yet to find a “homeschool niche” I fit into. 😦 Some Christian homeschoolers are too tightly laced and/or lackadaisical about education. And I don’t agree with heavy-handed discipline for the “depraved in diapers” mindset. I’m not interested in growing robots.
Ovary emergency? Must ban women drivers. Ovaries affected by driving. Hmmm. Standing women only? So the Sheikh declared pelvis rolling a negative for the ovaries. The problem is the Sheikh needs some lessons about pelvis rolling & childbirth. They’re LINKED. Just sayin. 😉
And so what it’s about is control: diminished rights for women, hierarchy, pecking order, gender roles/rules, fill in the blank.
And it does sound similar to the “Biblical gender rules” in certain Christian groups. Like women being allowed to teach men only if the men are…. blind is it? Or deaf? I just can’t remember the actual Piper decreed rule.
Funny thinking, yet concerning because some put it into practice.
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Mark,
I like your pretty purple quilt square. I’m not that into my red one. Wish we could trade.
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A Mom, there’s another regular I know of who would like to change her black quilt. I don’t blame her. I could change it back to those weird monster avatars……or not.
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Julie Anne,
Great post! I saw this Sheik’s silliness online last night, and wondered if you’d noticed it too. Even considered alerting you about it, by e-mail or comment, but you beat me to it.
When I read this stuff from the Sheik, I couldn’t help thinking of Swanson’s wingnuttery, almost right away. These two mental giants would be great for a laugh, if only they weren’t so dead set on controlling women.
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From Mandy: “yes, I am no longer single”
And there was much rejoicing. (“Yay! Yay!”)
So wonderful to hear, Mandy! All the best to you and your beau. Have a great time, and take care traveling!
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Following up on HUG’s comment about what these religions have in common, I would strongly recommend the book “When Religion Becomes Evil.” It’s a very readable book by Charles Kimble, a professor who helped negotiate the Iran hostage release decades ago. He gives a checklist of signs to watch for.
The Five Warning Signs of Corruption in Religion
1. Absolute Truth Claims
2. Blind Obedience
3. Establishing the “Ideal” Time
4. The End Justifies Any Means
5. Declaring Holy War
Here’s an interest review that explains the 5 signs.
http://thinking-christian.blogspot.com/2008/02/book-review-when-religion-becomes-evil.html
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A mom
I hear ya about homeschooling! I am in the same boat too.
Mandy congrats- enjoy your life with him!
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A Mom: “Glad to be back. I don’t think I’ve heard of Kevin Swanson. Do I get a failing grade as a Christian homeschool Mom? Lol”
Count yourself lucky! Although he does provide some comic relief ~ unfortunately he is for real…..
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“And it does sound similar to the “Biblical gender rules” in certain Christian groups. Like women being allowed to teach men only if the men are…. blind is it? Or deaf? I just can’t remember the actual Piper decreed rule.”
Ok, I think you’re thinking of Wayne Grudem and he okayed women to teach deaf men. Grudem/Piper/Grudem/Piper – same diff, right?
I’m glad you mentioned this because I clicked on my link and the original link I had bookmarked is now gone, but I was able to find another one here: http://calvin.hereyallgo.com/resources/family_and_culture/christian%20manhood%20and%20womanhood/articles/grudem_wayne_but_what_should_women_do_in_the_church.htm
I’m going to post it on my FB page so it will continue to stay searchable.
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A Mom – Kevin is a prominent homeschool leader in Colorado. He is buddies with R.C. Sproul, Jr., schmoozes with Vision Forum folks. His spouts off stuff as ridiculous as Pat Robertson – absolutely crazy stuff and he does it on a weekly basis on his radio show, Generations with Vision. https://generationswithvision.com/
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So it would be safe and okay for a woman to drive a Segway, right? No “pelvis rolling” there!
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Segways will be approved as long as she remains behind the men. Remember, men must lead.
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Yes, and there is always the chance that standing on a Segway might put her head above a man’s, probably a taboo.
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If it’s impermissible for a woman’s head to be above a man’s, I’m thinking JA, being 6 ft. tall, is in deep, deep trouble. Or is it tall, tall trouble?
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Four steps behind the man, in her burqa.
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Gary W – what would they do with me? Cut my legs at my knees? Whoa! I never thought of that aspect – – is that an issue for these guys? I know my height is even an issue for some guys here.
HUG – I don’t think they make burqa’s long enough for me. I’m in trouble.
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JA, We would have to shop at the big burqa store. :o) Actually, I have one of those blue silk burqas a family member who is a medical missionary brought back for me. The one that fits over the whole body with only a grid to see through. All I can say is that they must have tiny heads. :o)
I have some female family members who started doing medical missions in Afghanistan when the war was in full swing. They are both blondes and die their hair dark brown before each trip and wear the head covering not the full burqa. They were usually there for about 3 months then come back for more supplies because it was impossible to have them shipped without an escort. They establish clinics for women. In the beginning there were women who had not seen a doctor since the Taliban had taken over. They got NO medical care at all. Including dentistry and vision.
She brought back secret videos she took in Kabul of men beating women right out in public and NO ONE did a thing. You risked your life to intervene. Talk about a horrible position to be in. They had some clever methods to approach the men to get permission for the women to see a woman doctor. Sometimes they had to pay the men to open a clinic for the women in some areas.
Yep, Barbarians.
And the incredible part was that when the Soviets were in power, women went to medical school! But most of them fled in the 80’s.
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t4ho-Faith, I’ve read your comments at paulspassingthoughts. We seem to be on the same page about lots of issues! 🙂 lol
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Monique, Sad to say I was caught up in reformed ideas briefly (depravity & inability). Thankfully, it didn’t get to this extreme of a view. Thank goodness I came to my senses: “we are each responsible for our actions” and “we are of great value to God” mindset. It leaves no room for devaluation of human life.
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JA, I’ll keep my red quilt patch then! 🙂
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wallflower, I’ve always wanted to try out a Segway!
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Mandy, Have a safe trip! And lots of fun!
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JA, That link to Generations with Vision is helpful. Thanks. I’m getting a nice education on this myself… thanks to you & everyone here.
I took a quick scan and noted Kevin Swanson is teaching elder at Reformation Church. It’s an Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC).
This question is for anyone:
Do most OPC churches hold to these views (i.e. Swanson & Vision Forum’s views)? Or is his a “fringe” church within the OPC?
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Lydia – What incredible and sad stories!
A Mom – I’m as in the dark about Kevin Swanson as you are. I have Julie Anne to thank for educating me about him! 😉
I’ve enjoyed reading the comments by everyone. This is such an unbelievable story, but sadly the truth for the women who live in Saudi Arabia. It’s nothing but a bunch of religious men trying to keep people in control through fear tactics. And, sadly that translates into American culture as well.
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Amom, I have missed your articulate comments.
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OPC is fairly radically conservative and generally heavily patriarchal, authoritarian, etc.
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An Attorney: Radically would be the keyword there.
I have been observing these churches, have read stories from wives, compared notes with other abuse bloggers about this group. This particular group and those church groups which resemble this type of hierarchal structure can be a very dangerous place for women.
These churches have quite a bit of domestic violence coming out of them. But it’s a difficult place to break free from because the women are so ingrained with the very strong headship/husband authority, wife submission belief. This is the environment where women will overlook her husband’s real offenses and pray that her husband will change his heart, rather than report it or seek help. She will endure years of abuse for the sake of the family, not understanding that staying enables the abuse.
The men in the church group together to support this domineering role in the home as “spiritual head.” If the church is a high-controlling one with abuse, this is typically what it looks like: if there is a marital problem in which the husband is overbearing or abusive, it will be blamed on the woman for not submitting. If the husband has an affair, the woman will be blamed for depriving her husband of sex.
I am very concerned for women in these churches. They have no voice. It’s very sad and scary for them and their children. These families have likely isolated themselves from much interaction outside of the church and so that means there is little support system in place should she decide to get help.
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Sorry this comment is off topic. But I think it’s important for everyone to know right away.
Please check out Paul’s post today on paulspassingthoughts. It appears that HBC is going after him. Directly.
It outrages me that church organizations are going after discernment bloggers with increased frequency. Anti-Jesus actions should be followed by repentance & right action. Instead, coverup & heightened control are the chosen course of action. Hierarchy=control is being pushed to the max, it is their God, IMO. Because they are their God.
I commend discernment bloggers. May they have unwavering courage & resolve, always focused on defending good & right. God’s very character. May we support them fully.
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One more comment about discernment bloggers. They are our modern-day version of prophets, calling all people, including pastors who NEVER are exempt, to right action & away from wrong action & it’s danger. That’s my opinion. And we’d be wise to listen up, turn toward God & away from wrong & following wrong.
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AMom – I’m on it. Have been talking to Paul.
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Okay. I couldn’t help myself, yet another comment. It seriously bothers me this much.
So here goes.
Discernment bloggers have NO room in hierarchy. There is NOWHERE they will fit in, are allowed, welcomed, or are useful in this structure. Period.
In a hierarchy, anyone who ponders/thinks, is discerning, or asks questions is to be removed, marginalized, discarded. The quicker the better.
This is why JA was asked if she was “under” an elder. If she were properly functioning in the “hierarchy” under a pastor or elder then we would never have known her name or anything about her or the truth. She would be silent & agreeing – even if she disagreed. There is no need to think in a hierarchy, blind obedience is required. That is the necessary rule that hierarchy functions flawlessly under.
They get this. We who see problems need to see & understand this also.
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A Mom ^^^^^^^^ Bravo!! That is it! Exactly!
It should bother us. This is huge.
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Anonymous, so true. The foundational beliefs of the key players in the subculture of the homeschool movement are into Reconstructionism and/or Dominionism.
Three word definition of “Reconstructionism and Dominionism”:
THE. HANDMAID’S. TALE.
For real. With Swanson et al as the Holy Commanders of Gilead.
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JA, I was feeling sheepish, having just said “one more comment” in my last comment, then commenting AGAIN about it. 🙂
JA, now seems like a good time to let you know I think about Hannah often. I have a soft heart for her. She could be my daughter. This may seem unrelated to my last few comments, but for me it’s not.
It ticks me off when people who think themselves “Godly” do anti-Jesus things, & then set up a hierarchy of protection & control for themselves to continue in this way, instead of repenting & making things right. They damage. What hypocrites. What horrible examples of Jesus. It is anti-Jesus.
I think about Hannah, a critical thinker. She had the courage to question these kinds of actions. And take action for herself. I imagine Hannah stands up to bullies. She changed the world in a way. This is why I will defend her when I think other commenters don’t get it. I believe she yearns for good, truth & peace. For Christians to act like Jesus, not anti-Jesus. May professing Christians care about these things.
And I think of you. As a mom, I imagine what you do here has a lot to do with her. It’s obvious you love her so much. I applaud you for your resolve to make wrongs right. That is what deserves respect, ultimately. You are doing the same thing as Hannah. Not backing down for what is right. Defending those who deserve & need to be defended. Standing tall for what’s right. My eyes have been opened. I am trying to grow & learn here. And think & make better choices. Although I will always be short-statured, unfortunately. 🙂 lol
Anyway, sometimes I have trouble expressing myself in saying precisely what I want to. I hope you can read through to what I am trying to say here. I admire Hannah & you both.
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A Mom – Those words mean more to me than you know. Thank you so much. I just reread your comments and you absolutely do get it. This stuff goes to the core of our being. Hannah is a beautiful soul whose behavior is more Christlike than many who call themselves Christians. I’ve learned much from her.
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Mandy,
OMG!!! I’m sooo happy for you! It’s so wonderful to come over here and read some good news like that. Made my day.
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BTDT – I’m glad to read your comment to Mandy – – it’s making me smile again 🙂
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Julie Anne,
Many of your readers have become very special to me.
I’ve been MIA while establishing a homeschool routine and helping my boys catch up academically to where they should be. I miss SSB. I was thinking today that I’d like to join the forum soon to support others like I’ve been supported here. Then my husband called this afternoon to tell me he’d run in to a friend. She’s another ex-member of our former church, who was married to a son of the founding elder. (I hope some day she’ll share her story.) She asked him about me and the kids, and said she really wants to get together with us. I just feel compelled to do what I can to help– even if it’s just to encourage someone that they can survive spiritual abuse.
What strikes me about the comparison between Saudi religious laws and fundamentalist Christianity is that the former are compulsory. Did you know there’s an app to alert a Saudi guardian if the woman under his charge leaves the country?
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/24/your-wife-has-just-left-the-country-saudi-arabia-implements-sms-tracking-system/
I think some women in Christian patriarchal churches feel trapped in the same way. Men like Kevin Swanson and his ilk would probably like to see women relegated to second-class citizens again. Unfortunately for them, this is the USA, and we do still have the right to speak up. I’ll keep my abaya packed away for now (thank you very much), and use my God-given ability to think for myself. I’ve lived in Saudi Arabia. While I can respect the culture and the people for what they are, I do not want my country turned into some “Christian” version of it.
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I know this to be true, BTDT. The example you gave of the Saudi tracking system is powerful. There are indeed women who feel this trapped in their patriarchal homes. I have read their e-mails. It is heart-wrenching.
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LSoP, Thanks for the encouragement. You & the defenders & supporters here are wonderfully strong, kind, & loving. I’m with BTDT, I think it’s special & it makes me happy.
BTDT said something I say AMEN to: “I do not want my country turned into some “Christian” version of it.” Yup, that’s how I feel, too.
As I get older, I understand more how what we have had here is so special in the history of the world. Individual rights, freedoms & responsibilities. The result has been incredible advances, inventions, etc. as people think freely. Free to try, fail & succeed. We should want to protect & guard our freedoms. Certain “christians” seem to want to go back to the dark ages, where a few leaders decide for the whole “collective”. It’s bizarre. I’m seeing a “christian collective” club mentality & I can’t find Jesus in it anywhere. What happened to the body of Christ, where no one part can tell the other part it’s more important?
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An Attorney, Thanks for the input.
Is that a pretty common consensus about OPC among other Christians & denominations? That they are radical?
JA, Thanks for sharing your personal observations on OPC. It’s quite disturbing.
If anyone has any other info. about OPC to share, I’m interested.
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“Hannah is a beautiful soul whose behavior is more Christlike than many who call themselves Christians. I’ve learned much from her.”
🙂 ((Hugs)) Yes! Me too.
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