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I’m in the middle of working on an article about street evangelist Tony Miano and the recent evangelism conference sponsored by my former pastor, but just ran across this tweet and decided to post it for a quickie Sunday evening post.
Tony, Tony, Tony!! SMH!
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Related articles
- American Preacher Arrested for Preaching in London (nationalreview.com)
- The Legal Rights of Christians vs Mercy and Love of Christ (spiritualsoundingboard.com)
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Oops. Another oops. “God alone” in the 5 solas list should be “God’s glory alone”.
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Barb O said, This cracked me up: “Christians also have very bad memories, because pastors are constantly telling Christians to never forget the gospel.”
Maybe this is one of the underlying problems–bad memories–when it comes to The Real Gospel Message?!!
Right! I have bad memories of “their gospel” I wish I could forget!
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Paul alone. Paul alone communicates the gospel. There is no gospel in the Gospels.
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Men alone. Only males are possessed of the honor and the power and the glory.
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We alone. Only we, the Reformed, are the way and the truth and the light. Bow down!
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Ours alone. All that you have and earn is ours alone. We graciously give you back 90%.
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Grace alone: Is tied to “substitutionary atonement”.
Make that PENAL Substitutionary Atonement — a dogma ex cathedra that only a lawyer could have come up with.
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“Reformed baptists, like Al Mohler, preach babies get automatic grace from God. He must have found a Bible verses that says grace WITHOUT faith for regeneration (salvation) of babies?!?”
Yep. You see so many contradictions. For example, Mohler believes we are born guilty for Adam’s sin. So these babies are GUILTY for what Adam did. How does one get around that? From Augustine on they baptized them….just in case they died and poof, that did it. With Mohler, perhaps he rationalizes that since God predetermined they were going to die in infancy, He automatically elects them. After all, God is controlling every molecule.
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Lydia,
Yes, Calvin admired St. Augustine of the Catholic faith. Calvin refers directly to St. Augustine when he praises infant (paedo) baptism in his monstrously lengthy body of writings, referred to as Calvin’s Institutes. Calvin also writes that Jews were saved by circumcision & non-Jews by infant baptism. He believed in works salvation or indirect salvation for babies through the parent’s faith! At least we have “out of the horse’s mouth” quotes, right?
I used to tune out when names of dead guys & history were talked about. Augustine, Calvin, Luther, Plato. Who cares? Well, we need to get to know who they were. We need to understand who, what, why of the past… so we don’t repeat the horrors of the past. And there are plenty of horrors throughout history & throughout “Christian” history. Church has been used for control of few over many throughout the beginning of the world. True Christianity is about individuals with direct connection to God, through Jesus & through NO ONE else.
Americans, myself included, don’t fully appreciate what we have & are naive. We enjoy much of what the rest of the world does not have: freedom of speech, leisure, education, freedom of religion, peace (not war) on our own soil. I think we take it for granted. We need to be serious about these freedoms & actively protect them fiercely.
It’s bad enough when a preacher chooses to sue someone for their money to make them & their family pay for WORDS, what they said & believed. Can you imagine if our government approved & enforced it? Right back to Calvin’s day and ZERO freedom of speech. There clearly needs to be separation of church & state. That’s the only thing (along with freedom of speech) that kept CON from financially destroying JA. And CON is a man of God? I pray people supporting him will wake up. What happened to JA is a wake up call about certain pastors, elders, churches. Jesus did not make anyone do anything.
CON’s lawsuit was a turning point for me in many ways.
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Gary W,
Paul alone! Good one. I’m just getting up to speed on this one. Paul’s words seem to trump Jesus’ words every time. The “gospel” of Paul. These churches preach on Romans for years. Or other parts of the Bible, but saturated with Paul & Romans verses.
What about the 4 Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John? Jesus’ own words?
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Look! here’s the four part series Miano took down. We can all save our money now.
🙂
http://www.crossencounters.us/2013/08/is-open-air-preaching-community-in-down.html
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Part 2:
http://www.crossencounters.us/2013/08/is-open-air-preaching-community-in-down_11.html
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Part 3:
http://www.crossencounters.us/2013/08/is-open-air-preaching-community-in-down_12.html
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Part 4:
http://www.crossencounters.us/2013/08/is-open-air-preaching-community-in-down_13.html
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“Calvin also writes that Jews were saved by circumcision & non-Jews by infant baptism.”
Wow, too bad for the Jewish women, huh?
(wink)
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I used to tune out when names of dead guys & history were talked about. Augustine, Calvin, Luther, Plato. Who cares? Well, we need to get to know who they were. We need to understand who, what, why of the past… so we don’t repeat the horrors of the past. And there are plenty of horrors throughout history & throughout “Christian” history. Church has been used for control of few over many throughout the beginning of the world. True Christianity is about individuals with direct connection to God, through Jesus & through NO ONE else.”
You will only get a hearty AMEN from me on this one. It has been a real wake up call for me to read the history of those times. You cannot separate the political from the religious which is a HUGE clue there are doctrinal problems inherent which is evidenced by the behavior. Where were the real Christians? Well, they were nobodies, persecuted and we will meet them one day.
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A Mom – The 5 Solas were (and are) in opposition to a Catholic Church that added works, indulgences, and so-called “merits of the Saints” to the requirements for salvation, added priests and Mary to Jesus as mediators between man and God, and gave Catholic tradition equal authority to Scripture. What’s wrong with that? As far as God’s glory is concerned, there is Rom 9:13-23, which concerns both individuals and nations.
“That means that Christ lived a perfect life so we don’t have to.” Is that a *little* thing? I say, “Thank God!”
“Grace destroys obeying God in this religion.” Maybe according to Mahaney and his enablers (but you still have to obey *them*), but not according to Calvin, who believed that sanctification is the process of being obedient and becoming more like Jesus.
Concerning paedobaptism, I agree with you.
It’s interesting: People are always saying that Calvinism is too intellectual and logical and leaves no room for mystery. But you say, concerning it: “Reason & rationale are not allowed.” And that it allows too much “mystery & paradox.” It just can’t win.
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Good job Diane, let’s use the resources we find to expose the false teachings and hypocrisy of others, and not just opinions.
I am concerned about where some of the comments are going, like this one – “Calvin also writes that Jews were saved by circumcision & non-Jews by infant baptism.”
Wow, too bad for the Jewish women, huh?
(wink)
Is it necessary and honoring God to insinuate something sexual?
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Hi unworthy1 – lyn, I’m responding to your comment, “I am concerned about where some of the comments are going, like this one – “Calvin also writes that Jews were saved by circumcision & non-Jews by infant baptism.”
I did some research for a question Ric asked me about Calvin & what he taught on infant baptism on JA’s 8/1/13 post. If you read Calvin’s Institutes (his massive body of writings on the Christian religion), in Book 2, Chapter 1 Calvin praises Augustine’s efforts that babies are corrupt from the womb. In Book 4, Chapter 16 Calvin explains salvation in infant (paedo) baptism as a spiritual mystery, states that the argument against paedobaptism is specious (I looked specious up, it means wrong), and explains for several pages that baptism saves Christian babies like circumcision saved the Jewish babies. I recommend reading Calvin’s Institutes for yourself when you can. John Immel has a link to Calvin’s Institutes which you can read online for free on his website: spiritualtyranny.com
So, from the horse’s mouth:Book 2nd, chapter 1: “The orthodoxy, therefore, and more especially Augustine, laboured to show, that we are not corrupted by acquired wickedness, but bring an innate corruption from the very womb”
Book 4, chapter 16 “The argument by which pædobaptism is assailed is, no doubt, specious—viz. that it is not founded on the institution of God, but was introduced merely by human presumption and depraved curiosity, and afterwards, by a foolish facility, rashly received in practice… In the first place, then, it is a well-known doctrine, and one as to which all the pious are agreed… Every one must now see that pædobaptism, which receives such strong support from Scripture, is by no means of human invention… that carnal infancy, which was ingrafted into the fellowship of the covenant by circumcision, typified the spiritual children of the new covenant, who are regenerated by the word of God to immortal life. But when, as the apostle elsewhere write, the wall of partition which separated the Gentiles from the Jews was broken down, to them, also, access was given to the kingdom of God, and he became their father, and that without the sign of circumcision, its place being supplied by baptism. let us fix on the very complete resemblance between baptism and circumcision… No sound man, I presume, can now doubt how rashly the Church is disturbed by those who excite quarrels and disturbances because of pædobaptism.”
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Hi unworthy 1 – Lyn, I wanted to respond to the rest of your comment, if that’s okay.
Lydia said, “Wow, too bad for the Jewish women, huh?
(wink)”
You said, “Is it necessary and honoring God to insinuate something sexual?”
Lyn, I don’t think Lydia was making a sexual inference. I think her comment was another way of saying that Calvin’s belief that circumcision saved boys who died in infancy wasn’t fair to baby girls who weren’t circumcised & died in infancy.
I think Lydia makes a good point. Calvin’s belief about salvation thru circumcision is one more way females are treated as inferior: leaving baby girls (females) with no means of “salvation”.
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Jeff Brown said, “It’s interesting: People are always saying that Calvinism is too intellectual and logical and leaves no room for mystery. But you say, concerning it: “Reason & rationale are not allowed.” And that it allows too much “mystery & paradox.” It just can’t win.”
I DON’T think Calvinism is intellectual OR logical. I DO think people who have higher learning (college+) are attracted to it’s system. It is like an elitist club where you don’t choose God, God picks you. IMO, degrees don’t equal wisdom or knowledge of God’s truth. I am not putting education down. I say that within a degreed, learned household. You have no idea how highly I value education. The truth is I know minimally educated people with far better wisdom & sense than most college grads!
A religious doctrine based on an elitist club mentality is not rational, IMO. You start to see wackos coming out of the woodwork sooner or later. And rude ones at that.
As for mystery & paradox, those words are used by Calvinists themselves to explain the unexplainable doctrine. Jesus didn’t spend his time going over the fine details of Jewish doctrine with the rabbis. The Bible refers mostly to the times Jesus ministered to the minimally educated people. His own disciples were these! The truth is, simple-minded children can know & love Jesus & obediently follow Him! Praise God! 🙂
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It may be, but we cannot answer for another.
She also commented earlier in the thread –
lydiasellerofpurple
AUGUST 26, 2013 @ 1:04 PM
“Lydia – I love that you “questioned for clarity!” Haha”
Well Kathi, Since we have entered into Tony’s realm of “mine is bigger than yours” phallocentristic Christianity, I assumed my husband’s would trump his. So “wacko nutcase” wins.
(wink)
This too seems to have some sort of hidden sexual innuendo. I just think we need to keep at the forefront our desire to honor God. Second of all, it wouldn’t be wise to give unnecessary ammunition for Miano and his friends to use.
As for Calvin, why is this about a dead guy? The doctrines of grace did not originate with Calvin; anyway, I thought Tony Miano’s teachings were in question here, not John Calvin. And no, I do not follow John Calvin!
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Jeff Brown said, A Mom – The 5 Solas were (and are) in opposition to a Catholic Church that added works, indulgences, and so-called “merits of the Saints” to the requirements for salvation, added priests and Mary to Jesus as mediators between man and God, and gave Catholic tradition equal authority to Scripture. What’s wrong with that? As far as God’s glory is concerned, there is Rom 9:13-23, which concerns both individuals and nations.
“That means that Christ lived a perfect life so we don’t have to.” Is that a *little* thing? I say, “Thank God!”
Jeff, Nothing’s wrong with that. Except I don’t think it’s any better!
It seems pastors/elders/husbands replaced priests/Mary as mediators. 9Marks believes they have apostolic authority & Reformed churches hold the “keys” to salvation, from what I understand. That’s no different, IMO. We’ll maybe it’s worse.
Do you say, “Thank God!” because you believe Christ lived a perfect life so you can do wrong, continue sinning? That you won’t do one good thing you will ever recall as a reformed believer? I certainly hope not. But that’s part of the faith alone/Christ alone imputed righteousness doctrine. I mistakenly called it substitutionary atonement earlier.
As for Rom 9, it refers to Gen 25:21-23. God is speaking about two nations. This may be helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msu-dtnge5M
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Lyn said, “The doctrines of grace did not originate with Calvin; anyway, I thought Tony Miano’s teachings were in question here, not John Calvin. And no, I do not follow John Calvin!”
Yes, Miano’s teachings should be questioned. Much of what Miano teaches & believes can be found in Calvin’s Institutes, Calvin’s massive body of writings on the Christian faith. If you have time, read some of it. Calvin praises Saint Augustine of the Catholic faith for the idea that babies are sinful in the womb. I read just the small portion on infant baptism, even that was huge, and it was quite bizarre.
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Regarding the concept/slogan/battle cry of faith alone:
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24, ESV)
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Gary W,
Yes, what do they do with the book of James! It’s one of my favs. Thanks for bring it up! 😉
Luther hated the book of James, wanted it removed I believe. Talk about taking it to the other extreme. Just goes to show his doctrine was first and not the Bible.
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A Mom, Gary W. –
When was the last time you heard someone preach from, or even refer to the book of James? This book seems to be avoided like the plague.
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Bridget, You’re so right!
And I just thought of another one:
Words alone: Don’t judge actions. They have no control over what they do. It’s all God. You can preach one thing & do another. There is no personal responsibility. That’s works salvation. See how words alone work?
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“Tony Miano @TonyMiano 22m
How many pastors will b frightened by this. As 4 me, I will continue 2 preach the WHOLE counsel of God’s Word. http://thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/16415-fed-judge-declares-anti-gay-sermon-a-crime-against-humanity …”
Lord, I thank Thee that I am not like THOSE pastors over there who do not preach the whole counsel of God’s Word….
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I do believe Tony is a false teacher, his words and actions prove so. His treatment of the lost proves so. His insults, belittling, name calling, provoking them to anger proves so. However, I now wish my tweets would not have been made into a blog post. I have no desire to continue in some battle between the O’Neal/ Miano fiasco and those who oppose it. Our thrice holy God must be enraged as professing Christians verbally abuse each other. I regret and repent of my words and involvement in this circus.
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Lyn, I’m on the road right now and traveling home and just saw your comment. Can you contact me at spiritualsb@ gmail.com
I would like to propose something to you.
Thanks! JA
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“The 5 Solas were (and are) in opposition to a Catholic Church that added works, indulgences, and so-called “merits of the Saints” to the requirements for salvation, added priests and Mary to Jesus as mediators between man and God, and gave Catholic tradition equal authority to Scripture. What’s wrong with that? As far as God’s glory is concerned, there is Rom 9:13-23, which concerns both individuals and nations.”
The reason it is called “Reformed” is because they wanted to “Reform” the Catholic church. They were more concerned with corruption that came out of the bad doctrine. It was political. The entire Reformation was political. And we know this why? Because of the Radical Reformers. You can read about the nameless many times anonymous saints who have “gone before us” in Martyrs Mirror. Get your Kleenex out first, though.
Every counter movement tends to over correct itself. The Reformers kept the political corruption and tweaked it into doctrine. They put a human (preacher) at center stage rather than the sacraments. That has not turned out so well now has it? So basically it turned into the preacher/elders becoming the mediator between God and man. Not so sure Mary is worse. Although it is pretty bad.
“That means that Christ lived a perfect life so we don’t have to.” Is that a *little* thing? I say, “Thank God!”
Which always makes me want to hide my wallet or lock up the children. Yeah! I don’t have to strive for Holiness!!! You cannot be “perfect” but you should be seeking Holiness and ones wonders why Jesus said this:
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Perhaps the context is a clue?
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A Mom – “As for mystery & paradox, those words are used by Calvinists themselves to explain the unexplainable doctrine.”
No, they are used by real Calvinists, like Michael Horton, when something *cannot* be explained. Scripture teaches human free will and God’s sovereignty. We can speculate on how they co-exist, but we don’t really know. Only phony Calvinists think they can explain everything.
“It seems pastors/elders/husbands replaced priests/Mary as mediators. 9Marks believes they have apostolic authority & Reformed churches hold the “keys” to salvation, from what I understand. That’s no different, IMO. We’ll maybe it’s worse.”
I don’t consider 9Marks to be true Calvinists. Calvin wrote that apostles “[have] no place” in “duly constituted churches,” and that God “now and again revives them as the need of the times demands.” (Institutes 4.3.4)
Concerning “keys,” I’ll have to research it.
“Do you say, “Thank God!” because you believe Christ lived a perfect life so you can do wrong, continue sinning? That you won’t do one good thing you will ever recall as a reformed believer? I certainly hope not. But that’s part of the faith alone/Christ alone imputed righteousness doctrine.”
No, I thank God that we are not under the Law, which must be obeyed perfectly. Mahaney & Co. believe that there is no difference between believers and non-believers, not I nor Calvin.
BTW, the Bible (and Calvin) teaches imputed righteousness, but not that it rules out sanctification. That’s another M & C “doctrine.”
“As for Rom 9, it refers to Gen 25:21-23. God is speaking about two nations.”
I think it’s a paradigm for sovereign election in general. Rom 9 deals with two nations and with individuals.
The remnant consists of individuals drawn from the Nation of Israel.
Vs. 16 refers to “the man who wills” and “the man who runs.”
Vs. 15 refers to Ex. 33:19, which is about God showing His grace and compassion to an individual, Moses.
But, yes, Jews and Gentiles are also dealt with in the passage.
I’ll take a look at the video later.
Gary W – “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24, ESV)”
This is the answer to James 2:14: “What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?”
The implicit answer is no, because that is a *dead* faith (cf. 17, 26). A live, true faith always results in good works (cf. 22). Good works are evidence of faith, but faith alone saves.
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Jeff Brown,
You had said:
‘”A Mom – “As for mystery & paradox, those words are used by Calvinists themselves to explain the unexplainable doctrine.”
“No, they are used by real Calvinists, like Michael Horton, when something *cannot* be explained. Scripture teaches human free will and God’s sovereignty. We can speculate on how they co-exist, but we don’t really know. Only phony Calvinists think they can explain everything.”‘
My response:
No, they are used by ANYONE who has no clue in and of themselves. We can speculate how they co-exist, because it is easily discerned. Only Calvinists, real or fake, think that they can chalk it up to mystery. It’s another way to show “I DON’T KNOW”. It’s not a mystery for those who DO know.
God WANTS US to DIG for treasure. It’s called to spiritually discern things, so that it is no longer a mystery. Just saying that it’s a mystery means that you haven’t found the treasure yet, and you just have given up.
I think that concluding that it’s a mystery, shows that people just give up digging.
Ed
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“they will get the typical: God-hater, reviler, don’t have permission from husb/pastor, liar, REPENT responses.”
I’m over 40, a woman, have never been married, and no longer attend church (so I don’t have a preacher).
So… I guess this guy would say I can’t approach him on Twitter or anywhere else to talk to him?
I don’t remember the Bible saying that an unmarried woman has to get any man’s permission to talk to another man.
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Someone said, “Regarding the concept/slogan/battle cry of faith alone:
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24, ESV)”
You’re saved by faith alone but other people can see that you’re saved by your external actions (your works). That verse is not contradicting “salvation is by faith alone.” See the book of Galatians.
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“I don’t consider 9Marks to be true Calvinists. Calvin wrote that apostles “[have] no place” in “duly constituted churches,” and that God “now and again revives them as the need of the times demands.” (Institutes 4.3.4) ”
Jeff, The problem is what Calvin wrote and how Calvin “practiced” his beliefs are sometimes different and yet sometimes very clever. (gotta watch those definitions of words./concepts). Note how he gives himself a bit of room in your quote above.
There are many contradictions in the Institutes. Not a good idea to proof text Calvin. :o)
When we look closely, groups like 9 Marks and the YRR movement are more like Calvin than the Frozen Chosen types except for the sacraments but even that is changing somewhat when it comes to infant baptism. That is the resurgence part. (History sees this ebb and flow in more pure forms of Calvinism).
(The SBC just hired Barnabas Piper to be the “Media Content Strategist” at Lifeway. Barnabas left the Baptist church over baptism and joined the Presbyterians. Do you know why Baptists are called Baptists? Because of believers Baptism. It is a HUGE tenant of their beliefs and they remember their ancestors who were drowned (by Reformers!!!) for daring to practice believers Baptism. That is how far the slide has gone. So the SBC has someone vetting media content who believes in infant baptism. The thought it mind blowing. Now, my guess is Barnabas will have a miracle conversion back to believers baptism because of the 6 figure income at his age )
These guys are closer to Calvin thought and practice since the Puritans. The good thing is that Puritan church discipline is illegal now. In Calvin’s Geneva the “church” (which is another way to say Calvin) decided who was saved and who wasn’t. (Keys to the Kingdom)
Which is interesting since everyone was forced to attend church in Geneva or get a visit from the ecclesiastical magistrate. How did Calvin know who the real elect were if attendance was mandatory?
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This is funny. Is Tony sending his friends to ask Challies to review his new book? Hmm:
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