9
In an earlier post, Domestic Violence: Do Pastors Know Best?, I posted a video of a question and answer session in which John Piper was asked about domestic violence. The video is several years old, but his words created quite a storm. Here were some of the troubling words:
If it’s not requiring her to sin but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, and she endures perhaps being smacked one night, and then she seeks help from the church.
~John Piper
Last week, Piper released a response to this video and so I wanted to let you know about this recent statement. He’s a few years late in responding, in my opinion: Clarifying Words on Wife Abuse. Although Piper is now clear that calling civil authorities is appropriate in cases of crime, there is one thing glaringly missing from this clarification – an apology – especially an apology to those women who heeded his instructions to “endure perhaps being smacked for one night.” This was abhorrent advice. I wonder how many women endured one more night of abuse based on this video? They trusted this man of God and his words.
Dee and Deb, of the Wartburg Watch blog and I sometimes accidentally and/or intentionally piggy back on similar stories. I found out today that we did it again. We share the same heart for victims of abuse. Please do read Dee’s excellent article: Domestic Violence, Christmas, John Piper, SGM, and TGC. She takes a closer look at a number of questionable phrases from Piper’s article. It’s a very informative article.
I do not think the timing of Piper’s article coming out is coincidental. A number of bloggers have done articles on this obnoxious video and his teachings on divorce/abuse (Cry for Justice, Wartburg Watch, BGBC Survivors, From Bitter Waters, Under Much Grace, Galations 4, Free Jinger, Reformed Traveler, Emotional Abuse and Your Faith, etc). What I believe is happening is that bloggers are highlighting this behavior and readers/people are responding. They are responding in comments on blogs like mine, on the blogs of leaders, they are sending e-mails and challenging leaders on these topics. Thank YOU if you have done this.
Jeff Crippen has come out strongly against domestic abuse in an open letter to pastors:
In November, I wrote a post (Complementarians Speak out about Violence Against Women) about the many church leaders and pastors who wrote articles against domestic violence coinciding with the: International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women.
All of this recent focus on abuse is no coincidence. It makes sense in light of the Sovereign Grace Lawsuit that surely looms in the heads of friends Sovereign Grace pastors and leaders, especially president of SGM, CJ Mahaney, who is named in the lawsuit. I would like to highlight an earlier blog post featuring a video by attorney Gilion Dumas: A Word of Encouragement to Abuse Victims Who Use Civil Litigation. In cases of overlooked abuse and failure to respond or report crimes, pastors are also crossing the lines in the civil government. They have a moral responsibility to society to report crimes.
Based on the many comments and stories I have read of domestic violence in Sovereign Grace Ministries churches, it would not be surprising to see the current class action lawsuit revised to include additional cases of abuse, including domestic violence. Even if it doesn’t, the Sovereign Grace Ministries lawsuit is the lawsuit to watch among church leaders.
The purpose of this blog is to highlight spiritual abuse. When pastors and church leaders fail to address ANY abuse appropriately in the context of church, they become complicit with the abuse. A failure to address abuse is a choice to remain silent. Church leaders will have to answer to God for this non-response. Remaining silent is the wrong response and leads to secondary abuse: spiritual abuse. Let’s continue to be the squeaky wheel on behalf of victims who cannot speak for themselves (Proverbs 31:8-9).
photo credit: United Nations Photo via photopin cc
Spiritual Sounding Board 
Oh man I saw Piper's latest article on DV in response to this hoopla, right after I posted on Challies blog about it a couple weeks ago. It seems like the church is finally noticing the terrible reputation they have on DV, and trying to get together an appropriate response that doesn't sound like they belong on Al Jazeera/Taliban TV. I respect Piper's "clarifications" on this.. but there are still a couple of points to pound on!First: How are women supposed to "respect a husband as her spiritual head if he is threatening or beating her?" – as Nancy DeMoss has stated. What exactly (in concrete terms please) does that look like? and is it even scriptural??Second: if a husband is a repeat offender and clearly is not going to change his abusive ways, why is divorce still forbidden. Are we to believe that Jesus allows divorce over a sexual affair, but if a man beats his wife our father in heaven says "oops no dice. no divorce for you"???just more to debate and chew over. I'm glad they are finally acknowledging this at least!!
LikeLike
Yes, I think Piper and recently, the Gospel Coalition big dogs are trying to clean up their image on this subject, especially in light of the SGM class action lawsuit.Your first question is very good. On Jeff Crippen's blog, he asks the tough question: you have to question whether someone who abuses his wife is really a Christian. I don't have the exact wording, but someone who inflicts violence on someone in an attempt to control – there is something so ungodly about that disgusting behavior. And the 2nd question is another that Pastor Crippen also questions. Why is it the victim is deemed to stay married to an abuser and in a life of misery? Where are the consequences to the husband? What kind of godly marriage does this model to children and to the world? Great questions, Katy. Thank you!
LikeLike
oh YES that is a good question re: Jeff Crippen. I came to the conclusion that my husband was a fake Christian and not really saved because I figured there was no way that a man could have God in his heart and at the same time hurt/terrorize/threaten his wife. repeatedly.i would love for a theologian to explore this idea.
LikeLike
Katy – Do you read Jeff's blog? I highly recommend you do. He might provide more clarity for you in some of these issues. A Cry for Justice PS – BTW – totally unrelated – I checked out your blog and saw the pallet wall – very cool. My 15-yr old made me the most awesome coffee table out of pallets. I think I'll tweet it 🙂
LikeLike
I endured seventeen years of severe physical, sexual, verbal, emotional, and spiritual abuse from my ex husband. I had no support. Of course I had non-believing friends who questioned why I stayed, but the nature of my ex's far reaching abusive control also meant that anytime he even suspected someone knew he cut off all contact with them in my life. During my second pregnancy it became much harder to hide due to the constant injuries and trips to the hospital. My pastor refused to talk to me about it. Because of his strict rule against meeting with female parishioners alone and my husbands sporadic attendance at church it was never possible to meet WITH my husband. This also would have put me and my other child at severe risk for our lives. But he also forbade me to talk to other church members as he felt this would be gossip. This pastor also was strongly against me having relationships outside the church. So I was enduring this with little to no support system. To top everything else off, this pastor was very vehemently opposed to any type of counseling, including christian counseling. When my ex pulled one of his disappearing acts (meant to punish me and usually effective at getting me back in line) I got a restraining order. At this point the pastor and elders came to my house and told me God was removing my husband from my life because I was in sin and had placed my husband before God because I was scared to not please him (which inevitably resulted in beatings). He explained God is a jealous god and wouldn't tolerate this sin of mine. I was broken, scared, and confused. Getting the legal system involved initiated a grand jury which resulted in felony abuse charges being filed against my husband. During the following two years of hearings and two trials, I asked the pastor to go to court with me for the felony trial and was told that it was scheduled on his day off, so no. Ironically enough, a lutheran pastor from my distant past traveled to Portland to sit with me for the 10 hour trial and to pray with me. When the divorce was final, I was still never allowed to discuss with anyone at church and my status changed – not subtly – to a scarlet D. I'm sure my story is not an isolated one, but I'm curious if anyone on this blog can recognize my pastor…
LikeLike
no, i will check out his blog because everything I've been reading online seems to fall too much into the Piper territory. Or in other words: miserably disheartening.@beaten Into submission:I had never heard of sovereign grace church and my experience was in the 2000's in a Southern Baptist church…first one in Ohio and then one in Texas. They all had similar attitudes. The pastor who married us was very harsh about submission, he practically sneered at me during the premarital counseling, and then he turned my wedding ceremony into a 30 minute diatribe on wifely submission against my wishes. Now I go to a Reformed Presbyterian church. I was hoping their attitudes would be more educated but after reading the material from Piper and various Reformed, I realize that "Complementarian" means the same thing everywhere. 😦
LikeLike
No, Jeff is clearly against Piper's stance on divorce. He is a Reformed pastor who identifies himself as complementarian. It's important to keep in mind that even people in the strong complementarian camps cannot define the word very well. Wayne Grudem's rules on women's roles was laughable. You really have to do some digging to find out what people really believe. Comparing Jeff's view of complementarianism and Piper's is like night and day.
LikeLike
Your story is familiar to me. And it is heartbreaking. Thanks for sharing your story – it is tragic.
LikeLike
see that is news to me, I visited Jeff's site and I will be reading more there when i have time.I was thinking today – you know what would be amazing, new & different? If the Christian publishing houses started pumping out books for men on how to love your wife like Christ loves the church. We have a literal slew of books from the women of the church instructing us on how to be proverbs 31 women, how to submit, how to be a righteous wife etc. It would be nice if the men felt the same urgent need of instruction on love.
LikeLike
Maybe they think if they are truly loving, they might have to give up their position as head of home? All that said, I do know complementarian couples and in those marriages in which the husband is loving wife as Christ loves the church, it works for them – and some of them beautifully.
LikeLike
Not only the pastor but your story as well.
LikeLike
Hi Julie Anne,Great post and I agree that any pastor who condones violence against their spouses is shameful and drags the Lord Jesus Christ thru the mud in the worlds eyes. I also don't think that abuse is only limited to what men do to their wives. I happen to know a guy who's wife had an affair for around 9 years. Knowing this gentleman, he's the kind of person who I think thought that, if he just closed his eyes to the matter, it would eventually go away, a mistake on his part. Needless to say it just got worse until a point where he finally left the house. I know this guy and believe me, there wasn't any violence from him. Our sons used to be friends and I called there one day to ask a question about something, I can't remember what, and talked with her on the phone. I remember when I was on the phone with his wife, feeling very uncomfortable with the conversation, and mentioned to my wife how odd the whole call was. Shortly there after, they were separated and eventually divorced. He came over one day to see his kids, but his wife, who by now had her "mate" move in, got into an argument with her ex-husband and assaulted him thru a window in his car in the driveway. He never even got out of his car!! She called the police and almost had him arrested, but he left the property. He still was attending the same church they both went to, so one Sunday he showed up for church and was told he had to leave and that he was not welcome there anymore. My point in all this is that it's not always the guy who is the abuser. Women can be just as abusive. This is probably the worst case I know, of but there are other guy's I know who have been through similar situations. The bottom line is, men and women are both guilty of abuse. I believe the church has traded the true Gospel of Jesus Christ for man-centered psycho gobbledygook. I love my wife completely and she does me. We have our days, they don't happen very often, but when they do, we both know who we need to submit to. That would be the Lord Jesus Christ and His Word. The New Testament is very clear about how we are supposed to treat our spouses, and that needs to be taught in our churches.
LikeLike
You are absolutely right, Rocky, domestic violence/abuse is not limited to husbands. Wives can also emotionally and verbally abuse. I certainly don't want to imply that all abuse is from the husband. Thanks for letting me clear that up and also thanks for your comment. It's interesting I've been noticing a lot of talk against gay marriages and the politics of that, even from the pulpit, but very little time on in-home maintenance of husbands/wives and how to build marriages strong. I think we need more emphasis on exactly what you said: how we are supposed to treat our spouses! Great point!
LikeLike
Hi again Julie,I just want to say it's heartbreaking about John Piper in all of this. I am just finishing up a book by him called "Finally Alive" and I thought it was a great book. When my wife and I were looking for a church to attend, we considered Bethlehem Baptist because I heard many good things about Pastor Piper and did not know about any of this. Good churches are hard to find, at least in my part of Minnesota, so it's pretty sad to hear of this.
LikeLike
Hi Rocky: If you get a chance, be sure to read in the comments of the Wartburg Watch blog post I mentioned in the post: Wartburg Watch post on Piper. If you were wavering on Piper's ideas, this might cement it for you. What's helpful about Piper is that he has a very public ministry and you can find pretty much all you need to know about him and his teachings on the internet to make a rational decision.
LikeLike
When I read something like Piper wrote I look for the little "disclaimer" words that get put in. Im this case it's the word "perhaps". Its quite disconcerting. "Perhaps being smacked one night"????He gives himself a way out, softens his stand. Also his use of the word "smacked" is worthy of derision. What? Smacked with loving discipline like a child?Coming from Piper this is pathetic. If he really believed this could he not just have said "You must tolerate abuse till you get beaten one night"?Where is the Biblical mandate for congregational leadership to ignore domestically violent situations, even potential ones untill offences actually occur??Piper is not doing his job well at the moment
LikeLike
Andrew – You are very insightful at picking up clues in Piper's language. Feel free to send me your e-mail so I can "use" you – haha :)I do have one little issue with your comment. The last 3 words were not necessary. I'm not very happy with his stance on women, period.
LikeLike
Yes Julie, I'm hearing you. I included "at the moment" in an effort to distinguish this strange opinion of John Piper from the majority of what he has spent his life doing; acurately expositing the word of God. Not that this is the only time he has publically "got it wrong" His opinion on the so called "Toronto blessing" and his refusal to take to task Mark Driscoll when he had the opportunity are also examples of this very influential pastor being very publically wrong about things that aren't particularly hard to determine.
LikeLike
LOL Piper has spent a life accurately interpreting the Word? Andrew are you kidding? The flagship work of his ministry, Christian Hedonism, is based on a corruption of both Bible texts and a tenet of the WC.
Piper might be sincere but he is sincerely wrong, often. I am no liberal speaking here btw.
The reason you cannot reconcile these behaviors and statements of Piper’s is because his readers and students read him as they are prepped to, with glasses of admiration and an uncritical look at his regular mishandling of texts and concepts.
Piper uses posturing word forms which easily impress the uncritical reader. Awe, reverence, submission, majesty, and God’s sovereignty with our brokeness. These may have their place but this is how Piper commonly approaches most everything as if his shadow is that if Jeremiah. He is not a good thinker and not only does this show that but more so the weak correction.
LikeLike
A note of objection, however. It is not the chuch’s job or responsibility to rescue anyone from a spouse. It is not their place to insert themselves in a formal manner. That marriage is between a man and a woman. They are to manage the situation.
One can seek counsel but even then you do not drag or attempt to drag an unwilling spouse to the church for counsel nor do you use the church as some kind if leverage and nor should any decent Pastor permit this.
A Pastor can counsel you as to how you can handle things if you solicit his help. If the offending spouse has passed a threshold and meets ecclesiastical disciplinary standards and this is revealed in counseling then obviously that can proceed.
But it should be a warning to anyone that the church does not exists as a marriage manager, that is the responsibility of those married parties and running to the church too quickly can bring another kind of abuse in your life which is the inappropriate reach either constantly or at times of parties outside of one’s marriage into that marriage. There are two officers in a marriage and neither of them is your Pastor or church, it is husband and wife. As an officer it is incumbent upon you to formulate and enforce personal and marital policy which includes thresholds of what you will and will not accept.
LikeLike
Excellent comments from so many people!!! I’ll just say this: If I ever have marriage problems, spousal abuse, even adultery, etc., I will not go to my pastor for counsel. Been there, done that with a former pastor for adultery, and it was unbelievably pathetic. My current pastor said (in a Mother’s Day sermon) that wives are to be in subjection to and subservient to their husbands. Yes, subservient!
LikeLike
Welcome, Jo! I’m troubled at your word “current”. Ouch! So women have to put up with adultery, but what about men? Do they have the same rules? I always wonder that.
LikeLike
Alex said: “There are two officers in a marriage and neither of them is your Pastor or church, it is husband and wife. As an officer it is incumbent upon you to formulate and enforce personal and marital policy which includes thresholds of what you will and will not accept.”
Alex – I think a whole post can be done on your comment – wow. I’m going to stew on your words. This is so backwards from what I have experienced in churches. And it might explain why there are so many problems with marriages. Thank you for commenting and welcome!
LikeLike
Julie
I am still working on a series at my blog about marriage which tackles both complementarianism and egalitarianism, both of which I disagree though some of both may contains some principles with which I do agree, though maybe applied differently.
It is based on what I term “Governmentalism” which is the true function of a healthy marriage and it may take me until the spring to complete it but the concept above is part of that formula and I believe is firmly supported by God’s Word.
LikeLike
Oops! Maybe I didn’t make myself clear. These are 2 completely separate situations, 350 miles apart! The first was a husband who was involved in his 2nd affair (that I know of). No, men should never have to put up with adultery! The second was simply a comment during a Mother’s Day sermon. I raced out of church and burst into tears just as I got into the car. The only reason I’m still at that church is that the pastor apparently has backed away from his subservient position. He was doing an excellent series on the Book of Ecclesiastes, and used “Enjoy Your E—–” for his points during one message. That particular blank was “Enjoy Your Equal”. I told my husband (I divorced and remarried) that in just a few weeks time I went from being ‘subservient’ to ‘equal’. ha ha Sorry this is so lengthy!
LikeLike
Julie Anne wrote: ” On Jeff Crippen’s blog, he asks the tough question: you have to question whether someone who abuses his wife is really a Christian.”
I question that, too–of anyone who is abusive, not just wife beaters. Of course, you ask this question, and people talk like you have no right to judge someone else’s salvation. But the Bible does tell us to watch out for wolves in the church, “you shall know them by their fruit,” and that sort of thing. I reject the kind of thinking that we can judge salvation by things like, do they smoke, do they go to movies, do they believe “correctly.” That’s where spiritual abuse comes in. But when people abuse others, we are commanded to be wary, not let them abuse us!
LikeLike